Forum Post: a mom's advice to OWS protesters
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 27, 2011, 8:37 p.m. EST by blurker
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Subject: Advice to the Wall Street Protesters........
This woman is spot on.
Posted By Marybeth Hicks On October 19, 2011
Call it an occupational hazard, but I can't look at the Occupy Wall Street protesters without thinking, "Who parented these people?"
As a culture columnist, I've commented on the social and political ramifications of the "movement" - now known as "OWS" - whose fairyland agenda can be summarized by one of their placards: "Everything for everybody."
Thanks to their pipe-dream platform, it's clear there are people with serious designs on "transformational" change in America who are using the protesters like bedsprings in a brothel.
Yet it's not my role as a commentator that prompts my parenting question, but rather the fact that I'm the mother of four teens and young adults. There are some crucial life lessons that the protesters' moms clearly have not passed along.
Here, then, are five things the OWS protesters' mothers should have taught their children but obviously didn't, so I will:
. Life isn't fair. The concept of justice - that everyone should be treated fairly - is a worthy and worthwhile moral imperative on which our nation was founded. But justice and economic equality are not the same. Or, as Mick Jagger [2] said, "You can't always get what you want."
No matter how you try to "level the playing field," some people have better luck, skills, talents or connections that land them in better places. Some seem to have all the advantages in life but squander them, others play the modest hand they're dealt and make up the difference in hard work and perseverance, and some find jobs on Wall Street and eventually buy houses in the Hamptons. Is it fair? Stupid question.
. Nothing is "free." Protesting with signs that seek "free" college degrees and "free" health care make you look like idiots, because colleges and hospitals don't operate on rainbows and sunshine. There is no magic money machine to tap for your meandering educational careers and "slow paths" to adulthood, and the 53 percent of taxpaying Americans owe you neither a degree nor an annual physical.
While I'm pointing out this obvious fact, here are a few other things that are not free: overtime for police officers and municipal workers, trash hauling, repairs to fixtures and property, condoms, Band-Aids and the food that inexplicably appears on the tables in your makeshift protest kitchens. Real people with real dollars are underwriting your civic temper tantrum.
. Your word is your bond. When you demonstrate to eliminate student loan debt, you are advocating precisely the lack of integrity you decry in others. Loans are made based on solemn promises to repay them. No one forces you to borrow money; you are free to choose educational pursuits that don't require loans, or to seek technical or vocational training that allows you to support yourself and your ongoing educational goals. Also, for the record, being a college student is not a state of victimization. It's a privilege that billions of young people around the globe would die for - literally.
. A protest is not a party. On Saturday in New York, while making a mad dash from my cab to the door of my hotel to avoid you, I saw what isn't evident in the newsreel footage of your demonstrations: Most of you are doing this only for attention and fun. Serious people in a sober pursuit of social and political change don't dance jigs down Sixth Avenue like attendees of a Renaissance festival. You look foolish, you smell gross, you are clearly high and you don't seem to realize that all around you are people who deem you irrelevant.
. There are reasons you haven't found jobs. The truth? Your tattooed necks, gauged ears, facial piercings and dirty dreadlocks are off-putting. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity isn't a virtue. Occupy reality: Only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. If you are among that 4 percent, find a mirror and face the problem. It's not them. It's you.
I will tell you who parented these people Mom, in reference to the people who occupied Zuccotti Park and all their supporters. It was people like me who raised three beautiful, intelliegent daughters (who have graduated with honors from some of the best universities in the East) who are able to think for themselves, have developed their critical thinking skills, and have learned that some things in life are worth fighting for.
It was people like me and their Mom who taught their children that you might have to do some research to know what you are talking about. Had you done that Mom, you would have known what credit default swaps and derivatives were and the sordid role the banks played in our 2008 near meltdown which caused many people to lose their pensions, life savings, tuitions etc.
Unlike you, the protester's parents also know that you can't read a few protest signs and swallow what you read in the corporate owned news media, and then regurgitate it in the form of your post and call it an opinion. That's who their parents are MOM! And by the way, how do you know so much about bedsprings in a brothel, Mom?!
LOve this post!
Odin, marry me
Odin calls it like it is and I couldn't have said it better!
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Go get a job!
If there were good jobs to get then there would be no protest.
Well then someone needs to change his/her attitude about his/her options. I'll bet you went to a better recognized university than I did and I still managed to get a better job than you becuase I didn't scuff and scorn at each opportunity I found.
Yeah (sarcasm) - to feed my family I have been the most educated pool boy in the world for the past 6 months at $9 an hour. I am glad you are doing well but don't make assumptions about me and what I will or will not do.
Very embarrassing when I showed up one morning to fix the pool for the parents of one of my students that I saw a few hours later in a course that I adjunct at night.
And YOU are in one of the best positions of any teacher in your area to set the example - yet you are embarrassed??
I own and manage rental property. If a doctor or engineer in one of my units calls about a toilet stopped up, I may be the one that goes and unplugs it. If that doctor or engineer comes home while I am doing my work - I will be more than happy to show him/her my tricks of the trade and how they can do it themselves next time. Not every doctor needs to call an overpaid plumber to unstop their toilet every time.
BBA-University of Iowa, MA + 60 hours. Very proud of what I do.
I can relate. I speak Spanish fluently from experience working abroad for a few years right out of high school. When I finished my degree I ended up taking on a temp job at 7.50 an hour writing content for website farms. I ate through my 401K before finally resorting to doing bee removal jobs and finally the removal of other pests such as opossums. I applied for about 10-25 new jobs a day. I was a bit frusterated to say the least but I kept pushing. I got my hopes built up super high when I had a chance to test and interview for my dream job. I passed a few stages in the hiring process only to end up being passed off for more competitive candidates. I considered myself lucky when I got a call back for a job I had applied for 4 months prior. After three months of employment I learned that a new policy being introduced by Obama's admin, was causing the operations to be revamped and basically depleted my position. I finally got lucky last August when I convinced the company I currently work for to prove myself capable to fulfill a basic need. Hang in there. Life is tough and it certainly is not fair. When I mentinoed that i worked for 7.50 it was for someone I went to high school with who was not my friend. It was embarrassing. The guy came from a wealthy family and has had paved path for success. I am determined to bring my salary up to a competitive level of his and am well on my way. I am a strong believer in our ability to accomplish great things here in this nation becuase of our freedoms and the capitalism we practice.
And I agree that some have a better work ethic then others and that those who sacrifice and work harder should be rewarded. I was and still am working class, my Father worked at Factory his whole life to retire in time for his health to fail from those working conditions.
I worked 30+ hrs per week while going to school full time. I went the community to state college route and then yes, a prestigious university for grad school.
I bought my house (fixed rate) 5 yrs ago to see my value drop 45% while also loosing my full time job.
I support OWS not because I am against America but because I wish to save it for my kids. We have been sold out by leaders with no national allegiance to us.
The past generations have simply passed the puck of responsibility on down the line. I will not do the same to my kids.
United we will succeed, divided we shall all fall. That is the plan, to keep us blaming each other so we do not see the root of our oppression. Simply plucking the leaves off only makes the root grow stronger each spring.
The plan is to get back to our ideals of freedom, democracy and meritocracy. Big Business is the same as Big Government but without representation. The America you yearn for is the World I yearn for.
Old hippie fuck I need your help. Need help making a t-shirt. We need to draw a picture of Zooccotti Park with a cage around it. Here are some ideas: Draw a hippie climbing the cage like a monkey and throwing shit. Draw a hippie rolling in mud and shit like a pig. hippy hippies fucking like dogs. Draw a picture of a hippie eating peanuts like a big fucking elephant. Draw a hippie as a lazy fucking Ape doing nothing.
I don't have any dreadlocks or whatever the fuck she is talking about. I have a job and my wife has a job and we both support Occupy to the hilt. This country is getting a raw deal, we are smarter than this. I stand with all my heroes against colonialism, neo-liberalism, and I think that if people want to dance and have fun at a protest they should do that. This writer stinks of the remains of the old American Puritanism. They didn't get rid of all of it in the 60s.
Great response! I like your style.
Gracias, hope all is well in your corner of the world.
Who cares what this "mother" has to say? (if she can put movement condescendingly in ""'s, I can put mother in ""'s!) :
This isn't sage advice, it's base propaganda.
I loath that small element of fashionable Scenesters as much as anybody, but it's an inconsequential fragment of what the revolution is about, and what happened to personal freedom? -- what happened to content of character (not merely looks)? -- actually listening what people say, not selecting a couple signs as summery for an entire movement.
Go back to your Live with Kelly Ripa yenta; dare not to scratch beneath the surface of the false image that has been presented to you.
If this is "spot on" then I've go the spot remover for this woman's acidy spew: it's called looking out your window and talking to your neighbor. See what the Country really looks like and thinks outside the bubble of comforting political talking points garbage.
Yes, just look at all these tattooed necks and dreadlocks at Occupy Wall Street:
It's absolutely shameful
Those hippies, man they make me mad......Except when they are flying planes... Happy thought, happy thoughts.
nice tatts!!! lolol
Those pilots, if any are from American Airlines already had their company ruined by management because they filed for bankruptcy ch.11 today...
Unions ruined American airlines ... Get your facts straight
They are lazy union employees
Are you satire or a real person?
i think he's more like a cartoon...(crossing my fingers a piano will fall on him shortly)
He could also just be a fellow snarky bastard. His comment reads like sarcasm to me.
Be sure to let them know this next time your 10,000+ feet up.
From my humble observations, the greater majority of posts on here are from people living East of the Great River, and more specifically within a certain concentration of the population. If you truly have identified problems as stated, next ask: and to whom do these problems belong.
As a resident of the great Southwest, we may have our own identified problems and may elect to NOT spew them all over the nation. We have been hit with financial ruin in the housing markets too but for one, Phoenix, we will lift ourselves out of the mess and not resort to the kind of foul mouth, ill tempered, greater than thou attitudes being posted herein.
You appear, more than anything, to be a juvenile, over educated, self seeking group of Americans with a less than fuzzy view of America as a whole in your non ending quest to put the blame on anything other than yourselves for the mess you find yourselves in.
Get a life - visit the great American Midwest or Southwest. You might get a much broader view of America as it really is.
Dear representative from the great southwest,
There is one major identified problem with the area you live in and this problem is water. This problem belongs to you because you choose to live in a desert.
You did spew your problems all over the nation when you sought to take water from the great lakes. You believed you were entitled to this water to solve your problem. With this action you, the great people of the southwest sought to put the blame and the responsibility on anything and everyone other than yourselves for the mess you find yourselves in.
To act like the southwest is a self-sufficient area that has never tried to effect and force change on a national level for the betterment of it's people is not only silly, but is flat out wrong. By taking the time to say such things you are doing a great disservice to the very place and people you claim to adore and represent.
In the end we're not that different. We all have problems and if we can acknowledge that, then perhaps we can work together to solve them. Like it our not we all want the same thing. A stable economy where we can go to work without having to wonder if we will have enough food, water, and shelter to survive tomorrow.
damn - well said.
not well said. the people living there today have nothing to do with the idea to build there. secondly this is only an issue because the lower levels in the aquifer they have there, and at that time i'm sure they believed as some do now that resources are unlimited. what is the point of beating them up now for it? just more aimless bitching.
Thank you for your very sane post and one without the usual name calling and putdowns (except for silly). I would agree with you fully regarding the water situation in this area. I grew up in the Midwest and my Dad predicted this problem, even from that area of abundant rainfall, in the 1950's. It was and is one of the references to "liquid gold", the other being oil.
I am somewhat familiar with your reference to the Great Lakes water situation but I do not remember any Occupy the Great Lakes movement in the past or anyone being removed by Police action over it. It may very well be an ideal transported by the thousands of people from that area to the Southwest when they came here in droves, found water a bit lacking, and remembered their former abundance.
I agree that we're not that different. Right now out biggest problem is the immigrant problem, along with the influx of drugs, dealers, and the cartels, and their heavily negative impact upon our large cities and NOW our small towns.
Count on this, many of our citizens will, and already have, died before you take out and hang your first Big Banker.
Thank you for your reply. I see what you're saying and I understand where you are coming from. What I would like to point out is that there didn't need to be a occupy the great lakes movement, because the local and state governments in your region were the ones whom were advocating and fighting on your behalf in the federal courts.
OWS, does not have the privilege the southwest had in that there were powerful organizations lobbying and fighting for their desires and demands. Because of this, they must do what they can on a grass-roots and personal level to be noticed, heard, and taken seriously.
We hope that one day soon political and social organizations will be created and take up the fight in much the way your local governments did on your behalf. What is currently occurring is only the first steps of something I think we all hope will grow and influence change for the betterment of everyone all over the United States and the world.
We only wish to work together, to create a better world for ourselves and future generations. We appreciate you taking the time to come here and speak with us, and I hope that you are not too disenfranchised from your experience here to turn your back on that humble and simple idea that if we can put a side our differences then perhaps we can all work together to make this a better world for all of us.
We're your friends and neighbors and we want to listen, and help in anyway that we can. We understand that not everyone agrees with our tactics or our ideas, but we hope that in the interest of cooperation we can move forward together despite our differences.
I love the southwest by the way, It's a beautiful region with warm and kind people. I've always enjoyed my treks through the desert and have nothing but good memories of Arizona, New Mexico, West Texas, Nevada, and California.
How about good memories of Colorado who provides all of the water those states depend upon, such that the Colorado River in this state has "over allocated" water. When did you last drink a glass of "over allocated water?"
What that means is that the water can't be used in Colorado because someone else has plans for it down stream and they also have plans for a little more than is actually available.
Maybe the Great Lakes should acknowledge their obligation to provide just as much water as somebody wants down stream? Colorado has such obligations to Kansas and Nebraska as well as the above who has sued Colorado for it. So now they get to send money if it is a dry year and they don't send enough water down the rivers. Colorado might have enough for its own misadventures if they could keep more of what falls on it. Bet we have more sympathy for you than you do for us?
More than you ever wanted to know about water. The mysteries of water law are confounding beyond belief.
Thanks. It is a beautiful area and someday I want to get back to the New England area for the fall colors. I hear from friends that it is breathtaking.
I agree with the "work together" part in order to "create a better world"
My main concern at this point is that the overwhelming content of the information being presented to me and others has to do with one topic only - MONEY. That you can even write one paragraph, much less 9 paragraphs, without making MONEY the main topic, speaks greatly of your intelligence, your ability to see into the future and thus create a roadmap of how to make a better world. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for being here as well. Asking questions and talking to each other is the only way to understand the ideas, concerns, and view points of everyone around us. I personally do not want OWS to become an inclusive isolated group whom doesn't take the time to listen and understand. By being here and expressing your ideas you are a great help and provide a valuable contribution to this movement.
Thank you again.
we will ... not resort to the kind of ... greater than thou attitudes being posted herein. You appear, more than anything, to be a juvenile, over educated, self seeking group of Americans.
Wow, you didn't even get past a single sentence before you did exactly what you said you wouldn't resort to.
I reside in the great Southwest as you claim to. I dropped out of school at age 13. You clearly have no idea who I blame or why I blame whoever I blame for Who's To Blame for the mess where in. . . .
So stuff your sorry's in a sack Mister (how's that for profanity?)
I have NO reason to feel sorry for you in the least based on what I know about your situation.
If you want to elaborate on your blame-blame-blame game, I am more than willing to listen and to consider your points.
In the meantime, here his your sack back, sans any sorrys you may think I have hidden anywhere at this time.
Who's asking for you to feel sorry? Wow, what a disconnect we have here. Pardon me for believing terse irony would translate over this darned interweb machine. I could tell you some things to curl your hair, but it's not about me, it's about the pointlessness and vulgarity of knee-jerk reactions to people you know nothing about (only what you've heard on the media.)
We're not all spoiled kids with an over-developed sense of entitlement, or whatever cliche you have in mind. Some of us have been working half our lives honestly thinking we were doing everything right, and realizing we were supporting an unsustainable system, namely a system that couldn't sustain us, one that won't be able to sustain anybody save those on the tip top for long.
A system so corrupt that if it is not fixed soon we are all sunk.
I hope that's true. They've been made continuously all over (if you're just looking on the internet, however, or the major media, you're bound it get a skewed perspective.
Excuse me if it sounds like a cop-out, but I really must get back to work now, much as I'd like to give you the fair time to virtually break-bread with you and all.
P.S. - the joke at the end of my first response flew clear over your head. Not looking for any sorry's or hand-outs and don't need a bath. Good evening, peace be with you and your family.
LOL no, you don't "spew" you just suck our tax dollars into your economy via Federal income tax "redistribution".
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html
I pay for my right to complain, how about you?
This speech sounds a lot like those we heard in the 60's, only now the mom giving the speech was the child then. I wonder if she listened? If all the kids had listened back then, who knows where we'de be now...
Q : So just who is This 'Marybeth Hicks' ?
A : See http://www.marybethhicks.com/ !
Another Lame Fux-Snewz Plant ?
Quod Erat Demonstrandum !!
Oh, That Marybeth Hicks, "In an interview on the Fox News Channel, Marybeth explained why the Occupy Wall Street protesters are proving what her research shows about America's younger generation: "
Yippee!!! Younger generation! Yahoo!
I haven't been accused of being younger generation for over 40 years.
I should send her a thank you letter!
Appearing weekly in the Washington Times!
Good catch!
Beware the socialist indoctrinators o-m-g
Mother Teresa and The Man called 'Jesus' himself, would be considered Raving Communists by 'G*d-Fearing (and Human Hating) Folk' like Mb {T}Hicks and co. !
And she's even trying to sell a book on the back of her ignorance and idiocy !!
timendi causa est nescire !!!
The EU melting down,Spain votes Conservative. Britain draws up emergency plans for collapse of Euro... REPORT: FRANCE, GERMANY PREPARE TO TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES...
Just days until collapse?
How's that Socialism working out for ya?
Although there are many millions of Socialists throughout The UK and Europe and many of the best social policies and programmes since WW II have resulted From Socialist Ideas ... IF you think that The 99% in Europe are demonstrating, resisting, struggling and 'Occupying' against "Socialism" .. then you really need urgent help in extracting your fuzzy little head from the depths of your own (x) !!
gnothi seauton ...
By all means if you don't agree with someone politcally you should make fun and call names! That'll show 'em!
@ ftt : Do your words equally apply to the initial statement above, attributed by 'blurker' to Ms. Hicks ?
Those Beatles and their long hair! They are clearly the four horseman sent to usher in the Apocalypse.
Is Newt a paragon of virtue when he accepts 1.8 million for Freddie Mac consulting services? I think the occupation is all about speaking out against the evil that has been made legal via capitalism within our own political system. The corruption in government underpins the plutonomous blanket that is suffocating our country's well being. This will ultimately bring out third world living conditions if not superintended. I would hire a tattooed, idealist before I hired a scum like Newt Gingrich or any other criminal that hides behind his government position to steal, lie, cheat and become wealthy through a public service position. You may not like the way they behave, their style or their posters but the real message is clear on the street and that is that they demand less corruption and they fear the disastrous effects of the 1% buying our politicians and making legislation. Both parties will enslave our youth with debt from the war machine. They told us Vietnam was a necessary war too. Maybe they just have a mind of their own and they can see the forest through the trees. I think moms across the country are proud of them for speaking out and being a catalyst for change.
This is the kind of advice we do not need from someone claiming to be a "mom."
Many protestors are/were employed, so your insult about lacking jobs is not only false, but it reveals you to be a troll. We are tired of working for minimum wage, with no benefits, while undeserving, undemocratic people get ahead because they are ruthless and greedy. This is not what America is all about.
It is stressful to be at an encampment. A little light helps make the atmosphere more positive. I have not seen "partying" at any of the encampments I have been to.
If your word is your bond, why aren't the thousand or so financial service employees who got paid at least $2 million each for creating and selling investments that later turned out to be fraudulent on trail? Why don't they give the money back? They knew they were selling securities that would wreck the global economy, but persisted in doing so. Read the Senate Banking Committee report on Goldman.
While nothing is free, it is clear that you can buy regulatory forgiveness. No one expects "free." We demand "fair" and "just."
We are protesting for you, too...this system is unsustainable.
Go play with dad, mom...or play with yourself. Your bigoted, biased, right wing "advice" is not welcome here....
If that was your depth of understanding, you/she probably won Mom of the year from from some truly non distinguished small group. You/she can clearly see the part of the iceberg that is above water.
We raised three of our own kids and one grandchild, oh, and we took in a friend of one of my kids whose family were alcoholic New York Bankers. He is now an entrepreneur with deaf child and an adopted one and dropped by a couple of weeks ago to thank us. I did the Little League, dance lessons and Scout Leadership participation, the full set, twice. I, too, have written a column for a newspaper but it didn't make me smart.
And I must say her/your smug, superficial pronouncements are just that and demonstrate conclusively that you/she hasn't gotten close to reality in several years. Reality isn't in New York. I spent a dozen years in its shadow. I can just see you being inconvenienced by the filthy rabble.
I just hope it didn't get your skirts dirty or scare the horses on Madame's carriage.
Walk a mile in someone's pumps, if you really care. Being an amateur social anthropologist, I would have guessed you would have enjoyed the "field work."
99% is 99%, after all. And 1% is only 1%.
This would be a better post if it was written toward those investment bankers and politicians who stole billions of dollars and brought down the housing market and the world economy due to a large scale unregulated predatory loan scam. Guilt is an effective weapon if wielded toward the right enemy~
Picking on the victims even if some of them are twats and worse generalizing all OWS supporters well now that reflects more on the bully.
To that I ask, "Who parented that person?"
I just can't believe you spent so much time working this out in your mind. You are fighting an illusion. Whoever directed you to believe that this is about "getting stuff for free".. is confused and frightened. If you continue to follow these frightened people, they are going to lead you down a very dark path. You will be better off just sticking with the idea that this movement is irrelevant. So, nothing to be afraid of.
You mean nothing is "free" to the honest and society at large but free for the big financial institutions and corporations, is that what you teach your children?
You mean that society at large does not deserve basic healthcare and the people who protest to have these for society are silly?
While banks can conjure up money, society cannot invest in educating its citizens.
Or perhaps your intellect which you so metaphorically use springs from some irrelevant logic.
High? Tattooed? Huh, I am a 64 year old woman and I resent being stereotyped.
You obviously are not very educated as to what OWS is about and I doubt you are really even interested. Keep watching your main stream media honey. I feel sorry for your children ...
It reads like a pathetic email that has twice made the rounds and with a few changes passed on again.
I am curious where the statistics cited in the last point of the OP even came from. I decry this thread bullshit, which is quickly becoming an offense worthy of reprimands in my mind. We haven't the time or energy in our life to deal with fuckwittery.
Edit: Doing some simple rounds, graduate unemployment seems to rest somewhere around at least 10%, and that doesn't take into account factors like underemployment and actual outcome. Meanwhile other sources suggest that unemployment is naturally worse among youth than everyone else, which intuitively suggests an unemployment rate higher than the national average, 9%. Half a thought puts this mother's assertion into question.
Why am I wasting my time on this thread. Surely I can put it to some better use for humanity, after all I have to make up for people like this. Sorry for venting on your comment, I concur, this is pathetic.
What both the poster, and the percentages you listed, don't take into consideration is how many college graduates are employed at the jobs they graduated for. I don't know the statistics myself, but am aware that the numbers simply take into consideration who has a job, not what that job is.
In other words, a graduate with a degree in accounting has a job flipping burgers, and an ex-teacher with a degree in marine biology is working retail for minimum wage.. And both are counted by the companies in these statistics. (And schools who then report their graduates are "employed". So beware of that number they tell you when applying for higher education. The one where the school official brags about how many of their graduates are "employed".) Nevermind they aren't working the jobs they set out to do and have degrees in. They're employed, that's all the statistics say or those who compile them care about.
WorkerAntLyn, yes, that is what I meant by underemployment. Thanks for elaborating on that though, because it IS an oft ignored point : )
My brother sent this to our family members;
Here is what I put together from various sources (including here):
Hey Bro,
This is not some homespun Midwest “every-mom” She is an admitted Right Wing speaker and a regular Fox and Washington-Times contributor. Here is her website: http://www.marybethhicks.com/
Her screed attacks a few in the crowds as unwashed and having bad hair (we have all been there). Besides her bullying, sophomoric judgments about fellow humans, those crowds are filled with mothers and college grads who are trying to bring to light to insane laws that say “Corporations are People” My question would instaed be “Who parented those Wall Street Bankers that brought down our economy?”
Her bigoted letter. Point by point. Life is not fair: So everyone should just sit back and take it? The OWS movement is making the country aware how we are all getting screwed. It’s talked about in the news now like it never has before. Maybe something will finally be done.
Nothing is Free. Like General Electric and Dow Chemical not paying ANY taxes and 700 billion dollars being handed to AIG, Lehman Brothers and the like when they went belly up?. Smarter Americans who go to college from loans and healthier citizens puts less burden on the country and keeps insurance payments low. Did you know that the 7 trillion total that was given to corporations for the bailout could have been just given to every homeowner in the country to pay off their mortgage? $350,000 for every person to go mortgage-free would have increased individual spending like you could not believe! What happened by giving it free to the banks?
A Protest is not a Party. Why not? It’s clear that even no-rage will attract pepper spray. Should anger be the only way to create change in politics? She disagrees that OWS should exist. Of course she would like it to be more contentious.
Oh, and her last line about only 4% of college graduates not being employed is just false. Unemployment for grads is around 10 percent just like everyone else and that does not include those that are working in non degree labor jobs, (like the graduate Marine Biologist flipping burgers) or grads that are only working part time and those who have been looking for work so long their unemployment has run out. (been there!)
Corporations have no soul, they cannot vote and are legal fictions, nothing more than bundles of contractual agreements. Now that they are legally people they can spend unlimited funds on political campaigns. These days, as Politicians on both sides can only get elected by unlimited donations from corporations. These people belive the only way to get a change against the corporation/politics death spiral is by a grassroots movement from the bottom up.
Our Mom did not raise us to be bigoted or hateful of others. Especially if they don't harm anyone else.
Yer bro,
What a Gr8 job your Mom did of raising intelligent, heart centred children !
What the hell does anyone mean by 'nothing is free' anyway ? The ONLY cost of Doing 'X' is NOT doing 'Y' ! It's called 'OPPORTUNITY COST' !! Man Made £ & $ & DEBT is BS !!! Consider The 1% Want The 99% to be Dispirited, Uneducated and Disunited ...
Either we identify by mere colour, 'confession'/creed or country ... or we identify as 'human beings' .. or we identify as 'Human Beings on a spiritual journey' .. or we identify as 'Spiritual Beings presently on a human journey' ...
ommm mane padme hmmm ...
I love how this lady seems so hung up on OWS protesters being smelly dirty drug using hippies.
Obviously non-conformity, inadequate parenting techniques, and a lackluster attention to personal hygiene are behind the high unemployment rate and other ills facing America.
Thank you for being judgmental and intolerant, you are everything wrong with this world.
PS. I'll remember to be extra pissed off next time I protest, perhaps that way someone with your character will find the movement more inviting and they won't have to avoid it by dashing to their car.
Sadly, you sound much like my "mom" does, though we've learned over the years not to discuss these things together because she only ends up getting mad. Rather then seeing the beauty of one of our most precious constitutional rights which is free speech and assembly in action, you choose to see the "mess" that it's creating.
Change is never easy, and a lot of times it's not pretty but the bottom line is that there are times when change is necessary. There are times when the "status quo" just isn't good enough. There are times when our lives are being systematically changed by greed and the financial corruption that has been allowed to attack us as a country pretty much unchecked.
I'm sorry if it was hard for you to get to your hotel room. Perhaps it's just to much of a strain for you to see democracy in action. What I see with this protest is the beauty that is the people, defending us from something we never thought we'd have to be defended from. We are the 99% for a reason. Greed is indeed the issue here.
And by the way, since your talking to all of these "kids", I need to inform you that I'm a 53 year old kid with a daughter and a son and I'll tell you something MOM, I will fight to my last breath to give my children a better future then what it could be without the change that is being fought for right here. Right now!
I hope you are passing all these comments to her.
It is easy to say that life just can't be fare, and stop there.
The author fails in understanding that while yes there will always be injustice, the point is to TRY to change that. It is that effort that IMPROVES lives, rather than maintains the status quo. The author quote the one line of a famous Stones song, but apparently didn't want to hear the rest you see you have to "TRY sometimes you might find You get what you need"
So what do we need? I don't know how about a country in which we arn't willing to allow 640.000 people be homeless on any given night while there are 29 vacant homes for every 1 homeless person. Where we don't allow 1 in 4 homeless people be veterans of wars fought supposedly on our behalf. How about a country in which we don't have to worry about our health and access to education so we can focus on making the things that make America great. How about a country where we can engage with our politicians not because of the thickness of our wallets but because of the weight of our good ideas? How about a country where we provide enough for each other to get started, knowing that the favor will return.
We work hard at our jobs, and make time to work hard for improving the quality of life in our country. The fact that one can have fun while doing this doesn't make the effort less important. Serious people know how to live a balanced life, and care enough to do something about it.
1) LIfe isn't Fair ---- [Money is nothing: character, conduct, and capacity are everything. There would be great people and ordinary people and little people, but the great would always be those who had done great things, and never the idiots whose mothers had spoiled them and whose fathers had left them a hundred thousand a year; and the little would be persons of small minds and mean characters, and not poor persons who had never had a chance. That is why idiots are always in favor of inequality of income (their only chance of eminence), and the really great in favor of equality.” George Bernard Shaw]
2) Nothing is "free. ["The Best Things in Life are Free." B.G. DeSylva, Lew Brown, and Ray Henderson]
3) Your word is your bond. ["The promises of yesterday are the taxes of today." ~William Lyon MacKenzie]
4) A protest is not a party. ["The greatest right in the world is the right to be wrong. If the Government or majorities think an individual is right, no one will interfere with him; but when agitators talk against the things considered holy, or when radicals criticise, or satirize the political gods, or question the justice of our laws and institutions, or pacifists talk against war, how the old inquisition awakens, and ostracism, the excommunication of the church, the prison, the wheel, the torture-chamber, the mob, are called to suppress the free expression of thought." Harry Weinberger]
5) There are reasons you haven't found jobs. ["Unemployment is like a headache or a high temperature - unpleasant and exhausting but not carrying in itself any explanation of its cause." ~William Henry Beveridge] ["We believe that if men have the talent to invent new machines that put men out of work, they have the talent to put those men back to work." ~John F. Kennedy]
An objective reader's advice to mom: Birth Control
If every child obeyed the diktats of such moms, the world would be standing still like a cesspool of vermin. Particularly this generation of parenting is a failed one, economically for not striving to create opportunities for the younger generations and morally for keeping silent when it was necessary to speak out for fairness and honesty in the society.
At least we still have foster care and social services...for now.
you are obviously of a privileged class since what you consider to be the goal here is a house in the Hamptons. We are talking about quality of life for everyone not the privileged few.It has nothing to do with Hampton houses or obtaining a pair of $2000 shoes. The wall street job and the house in the Hamptons is a symptom of your diseased thought process that causes you to see the protestors as filthy bums wanting a handout. They have already proved they are willing to do quite a lot to help more than just themselves. They put themselves in peril to stand up and say no to foolishness like you are spewing, what kind of mother are you?
I am a mother myself. 30 years ago I had a different world to live in than my 20 year old daughter does now. life looks pretty grim in 2011. the future is grim. You seem to have missed the point. I am not going to bother to repudiate your note point by point because your emotions are in the way of your thought process. You need to learn more.
If yall are all about the improvement of life for everyone then get to work. Go invent something, go pick up a job and donate your earnings to charity if you are such a geat philanthropist. Go volunteer your time, and talent to people in need. Go do something that produces a direct immediate benefit to someone rather than proving to the world OWS is full of the most arrogant, stubborn, entitlement seekers we all view you as. Surprise your critics be productive to society rather than the biggest group of begging leaches.
it is nothing to do with entitlement. It is about changing the system so there are less people"in need" and there are more people with the ability to sustain themselves and their environment. Nobody wants handouts. It is not about philanthropy, that is an old trickle down ideology that does not work. I will say it another way, it is not about those that are well off giving charity to those not well off. Get off yer high horse kevabe. It is about changing the way we function completely and not allowing predators to take control of our future. It is about creating a society where all men and women are equal and it means that we have to help each other to help ourselves and create a sustainable way of life that has nothing to do with the austerity measures that are happening all over the globe! jeez
No one controls our future but us.
I come from a poor background and along the way had my father pass away and struggled in high school.
I barely graduated because I was so bent out of shape and very unfocused. I was turned down from a few different universities and finally just took a crap job in a warehouse where I helped unload trucks.
I worked my but off maintained good working relationships and showed respect to those with whom I worked. I created opportunity in every way I could think of. Many attempts were turned down or just did not turn out how I had hoped. Rather than giving up and crying about life being unfair, I decided to keep trying and working hard.
Eventually I was given a shot to go and travel across the nation making repairs to faulty equipment sold within a two year period.
Eventually I was able to earn tuition assistance rather than a raise. It was my choice to take advantage of it and attend college classes at night. I worked the entire time I earned my bachelor degree.
Upon earning my degree I still found myself facing rejection and resorted to taking a couple of very unfavorable jobs that were not of the standard one would pair with an undergraduate degree. I literally had to claw my way up the ladder to get where I am now by working non-stop sometimes with no sleep up to near three days in a row.
Today my salary places me in the top 15% of Americans based on your movement's own classification system. I expect to reach the top 2.5% within the next five years should I continue to increase my earnings at the rate I have in the past three.
For you OWS folks to say the system is unfair and that my earnings should be divided amongst yourselves, just becuase you give up easily makes me disgusted.
But even if we all do all of those things - there still would be government corruption, that is harming the many and helping the few.
@ 'blurker' & Mrs. Hicks : Your homespun reactionary drivel is unable and unwilling to face up to :
a) The Grand Larceny Of The Banksters (ongoing but cf 2008 in particular) ;
b) The Complete Corporate Capture of ALL The Organs Of The Security State In The U$A ;
c) The Mutated demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy & 'Demoblican and Republocrat' faux choice ;
d) The Military-Industrial Complex driven Empire engaged in Illegal Wars abroad AND
e) Long Term Mass Austerity For All At Home.
Self-Referential Twaddle like yours 'Mrs. Hicks' & half-wits like The 'blurker' who hide behind your skirt, are why Democracy in The U$A has become Government OF The People (99%) ; BY The People (1%) ; FOR The People (0.01%).
Aided and abetted by The Corporate MSM (ABCNNBCBS / FUX SNEWz etc.), The Citizenry of The U$A has been miseducated, propagandised and mind-managed to believe that they are Lions whilst behaving like Sheep at a Wolves' dinner party and acting like Turkeys desperately voting for Christmas, while all along being treated like Dogs, by Their Corporate Masters !
THAT IS WHY 'OCCUPY WALL $T.' and its sister 'Occupations' ARE DESPERATELY NEEDED ... and you must be some sort of strange still alive brain-donor - NOT to realise this !!
Either that or you are both retarded, right-wing, reactionary 'Teabagger' wing-nuts, bought and paid for by The Koch(up) Bros., desperately trying to read and make sense of that Psycho-Woman, Ayn Rand !!!
nosce te ipsum ...
Not sure I care much what some 2nd rate Fox News "analyst" thinks.. Then again, at least she doesn't write for a newspaper owned by crackpot Moonies?? Oh wait... She does. This woman is a shameless right-wing bigot that cashes in by scaring gullible people like yourself into thinking some homogeneous entity called "the Left" is out to destroy your childrens lives.
Here's a woman who seems to have forgot a few things in her lifetime. There was a time when the following items were affordable to even a middle class one wage earner family. Here they are. Housing, Education, Health Care. In addition, interest rates in savings banks were high enough that these rates encouraged, get this, savings. Affordable higher education provided a home grown skilled workforce that wasn't in debt for $100,000 before their first job assignment. A life of mad dashes and avoidance while perched in a righteous mindset that the corporate globalization of our workforce is the best thing to ever happen to our society is truly the thought of an educated person who lacks any knowledge of life that surrounds her.
what a worthless mom
Marybeth Hicks SHEAR genius...You might have left out some points but still genius!!!! Thank you!!!
This op is probably not a Mother but a person who wants to make OWS look bad.
This is a pitiful post.
Parents teach their children to be fair on the playground, and then they tell them life is not fair? They vote for the wrong politicians or don't even bother to vote when the children are babes, agree to insane policies, unsustainable arrangements that favor corporate welfare, reward the rich to the detriment of the poor, destroy the planet in the process, and then wonder why their progeny have piercings?
It is the duty of every generation to provide for their offspring (i.e., affordable education, and health care, decent paying jobs, in other words, a future). Parents generally want their children to do better, suffer less, enjoy more, and then they wonder why they will settle for less?
If parents are not providing much of the above, if they have failed to be consistent and coherent, then, best to keep a low profile or even apologize instead of uttering words of reproach.
Go watch March of the Penguins, you might learn something, Marybeth, et al.
I mean Yeah life isn't fair but we have to make it fair!!!
Wow! Very funny! I use that same quote in my book!
"You can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes you might find, you MIGHT get what you need" Its a quote by itself around the title page at the beginning of the book!
http://guardloan.com/content/Appendix-iii.pdf
It may be so that only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. I'll bet, however, that the overwhelming majority of those college graduates will consume 100% of their resources paying off the debt required to obtain that degree in order to get that job. It's a wash. We as a society choose not to invest in the education of our citizenry. Instead we willingly hand over hundreds of billions of dollars to bankers in order to back their trading activities in which they get all of the upside and we get all the risk. We willingly send jobs overseas to exploit lower standards of living so that we can increase our rate of return on financial, not human, capital. We willingly allow products created overseas to exploit lower standards of living to be sold freely in our market (while our market lasts, that is). Additionally, we tear gas, pepper spray and beat our youth who protest against this immoral state of affairs. America, where are you? Please tell me you're still there.
"The truth? Your tattooed necks, gauged ears, facial piercings and dirty dreadlocks are off-putting."
I wonder if that was intended to describe the marines who have joined the movement?
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
you are nothing but a brain-washed mom.. brain washed by 1% education system.
If you were my mom I would run away from home!
I think Mom ran away first. She didn't reply to anyone.
Change tends to be feared
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slewNJ1PL-g&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Sorry but Wall street got bailed out and we got sold out -------- I'm a stock trader and over 50 I really don't need a life lesson from one of the uneducated sheep this country seems to be populated with. Go read this book "It takes a pillage" FYI it was written by an X Goldman exec. Then come back and we can talk.
I will check out that book. Thanks! I already read a few others. All the Devils are Here, The Big Short, Too Big too Fail. And really liked all of those. Of course, I was appalled and horrified by the maniacal criminal greed taking place. More horrified that there has been no justice.
I read The Big Short, The fall of Lehman brothers The Quants and F.I.A.S.C.O.. I will check out those other two. F.I.A.S.C.O. might be interesting for you. It was written by a bond dealer at Morgan Stanley in the 90's, the others maybe just rewrites of what you've already read. You can't have to much info on the subject though IMO it is horrifying. It takes a pillage is my favorite from that list.
I'm taking notes! Can't wait to go to the library! Another good one I just remembered - House of Cards, the Bear Stearns collapse.
Many years ago I read the book about the Enron scandal, The Smartest Guys in the Room - thinking how could anyone be so colassally stupid and greedy? The Evil Banksters beat them by from here to the moon!
I bet you could write a book! I'd read it!
Re banksters :Yup they really did. All that stuff about off balance sheet transactions ? Like little kids hiding behind the couch because they know are doing something bad. I understand how the derivative bets exploded and crashed the market what I'm trying to get a grip on now is how wall street turned that into a giant money grab where they wormed their way into every significant banking institution. Then I want to know how we get them out.
Speaking of derivatives. Tell me if I understand the concept correctly. Its basically a hedge or a bet on some random outcome. Like I could buy a derivative that said the sun will shine in the northeast tomorrow. So long as someone was found to take the other side of that bet, at some price? Little sketchy on the price, is it just a mutually agreed upon thing by the two parties? And this is different than a CDS, because a CDS is more like an insurance policy right? Its been a while since I read those books and I'm working from long term memory now because I don't think about this stuff in my normal course.
There's stocks ,owning a share of a company and simple bonds, a loan to a company or government entity and commodities, oil gold food etc. Anything that is a bet derived from one of those assets is a derivative. (and yes there are also some more obscure derivative products interest rate swaps is one that I don't really get) The concoctions that crashed the markets this time were derivatives disguised as bonds. I like to call them Frankenbonds. They were based on the theory that if you take a crap loan and put it with other crap loans and then hack it up into tiers and sell off the tiers of crap loans that you could rate them as AAA bonds insured by AIG with CDS's. LOL why I don't know $$$ is the only reason as wall street took a cut with every hack. There are structured markets for derivatives like futures for bets on commodities and options for bets on stocks. A credit default swap is a derivative product that functions like insurance but they call it a swap so they don't need to follow insurance company rules for keeping some money aside in case of a "credit event" That's the mess that AIG got into. Swaps are agreements between parties that were not part of a regulated market when AIG ran up losses in the 10's of billions on bets they had with Goldman Saks and others (that was in The Big short) Most derivatives are zero sum products,meaning that there is a winner and a looser with no wealth added to the system. In other words they contribute nothing to society nor do they create jobs. They can serve a useful purpose such as hedging by farmers or stock-owners. Mostly they are just used for gambling. does that clear anything up?
yeah! It's coming back to me now. I needed a refresher course!
I've read some stuff that the derivitive market could crash again within the next year. Not that Glass-Stegall would be re-enacted anytime that soon, but wouldn't this help, to split up the banks, as protection against a derivative crash? Short of getting actual regulations for the derivative market?
Is it even possible to regulate derivatives do you think? I've read stuff both ways. I've not been able to tell if thats just the Evil Banksters pushing their own Evil Doings or not.
OK think about this the fed was created in 1913 the crash of 1929 came 16 years later. Glass/Steagall was enacted in 1933 and repealed in 1999 8 years later we have a crash almost identical to 1929 but based on bonds not stocks. I don't think we need to regulate derivatives as much as we need to regulate who we are lending money to. Like how about banks can't lend money to hedge funds or investment banks who trade derivatives? That would leave wall street in the free market where they belong, they can lend money to each other and get their hands out of our pockets. I do think we should bring back Glass/Steagall
Got it. That makes alot of sense! So we're pretty much unprotected from a derivatives crash unless we get Glass-Stegall or something to regulate the lending?
I've also wondered, since there are so many different kinds of derivatives, doesn't this limit the risk? A crash in one area would be isolated to that kind of derivative? Unlike housing. There were so many securities tied up in it, so it caused a big crash.
It only limits the risk if people are hedged in a way that will protect them, but that is unlikely and would require massive regulation. There's also the problem of systemic risk ----------like if a hedge fund had tons of currency futures of a small country or the massive amount of oil futures that get traded relative to the actual amount of oil that gets used. If banks are allowed to keep off book transactions of credit default swaps for example, we would have no idea how much risk was in our system and what event would trigger the need for massive taxpayer bailouts like the ones for AIG
That doesn't make me feel better.
Knowing so much about this like you do - how do you sleep at night?? I'm going to have to self medicate tonight!
LOL I've known it for years too ! I was pretty mad and no one to talk to about it !
Will read. Thank you. I have to run for now. I hope I will keep seeing you around!
Do you still have the garden? Have you expanded it?!
What are your thoughts about the Federal Reserve. There is lots of talk here, maybe you've seen, about ending the Fed.
I just posted this article to the forum http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html yes I'm growing tons of lettuce and winter greens. It helps ! plus it's so good
That sounds terrible! Did you know that there was going to be a crash?
Well I didn't know the details but during the Bush years I told the kids I was learning how to garden so that when the economy crashed I would know how to grow my own food. There were guys on CNBC who knew more than I did who predicted all the subprime adjustable rate mortgages coming due at the same time and the massive defaults. I really started studying it at the time of the crash, my stock know how helped me understand the math of it all. I don't think anyone really knew how big it was till it all unraveled.
How sad that you would put down young people for being passionate, for believing in something, for hoping for a better future. Shame on you.
REALLY. May we rename you beautifulwoman. Being passionate, believing in something, and hoping for a better future may be laudable BUT it all depends what one ispassionate about, believing in and hoping for.
This was exactly what this forum was pointing out. Being passionate about having a great time in NYC, believing that somehow you have a claim to the weath, and are hoping for a bigger handout really doesn't impress a lot of Americans.
So wanting money out of politics and to reinstate Glass-Steagall, for starters, these are bad things to hope for? Hoping for a country where maybe fewer than 1 in 7 people are on food stamps is too much to hope for? Or a bad idea? Hoping that CEOs can end their greed (30 years ago they earned an average of 40 times the average workers wage, but today they earn on average 343 times the average workers wage). Is ending corporate greed too much to ask? Is it too much to hope that the 22% of children in this country that live in poverty can sometime do better? Is it too much to hope for a lower unemployment rate than 9%. Is it too much to hope for an affordable college education?
They are not bad things to WORK for. Not bad ideas at all.
They are working for these goals. That is what a movement is. It is a group of people working toward a goal.
That's not what Occupy claims, that's what mommy does. Occupy claims there is a problem with our politics and they are right.
If only OWS had even ONE leader who could make that point. Unless you are that leader and have some authority, you are just another poster who is subject to either a + or _ for some unidentified points on this forum.
There is a leader. But it's a secret. People don't like to talk about it very much because then it wouldn't be a secret.
This is a clear example of propaganda. It gives validity to someone who has none. It offers surrender ideas to someone who cannot accept an opposing view. Who parented her? What form of abuse is she inflicting on her kids when they have an idea that she didn't plant?
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Pay attention to blurker's post above, acknowledge what is correct in it, and avoid an overt response to the rest. It profits none of us to disparage the appearance or life priorities of another. We can profit however from considering what they say and why they say it. The person behind blurker may be good to recruit, rather than to shun. There is certainly no violence in blurker's post.
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The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing But The Truth? Really? Only 4% of college graduates out of work? Ha! Your version of the truth must come from The Twilight Zone, The Land of Oz, or Wonderland. And you must be Alice who fell through the Republican Looking Glass.
Awesome,great post. Thanks.
hello MOm, hope your children don't ever stand against you, what will happen, will you pepper spray them, rip down their tents, beat them, enclose them, slam them for trying to make a difference?
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Actually well-written. This is how the real 99 sees Occupy. Seriously, it is.
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I would like you all to take a look at this. I believe it's something everyone can occupy in good conscience. Unless you are an employee of the company.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/something-to-think-about-part-3-toshiba-hates-mino/
The Revolution starts here!
Really? Gauged ears? Mom since you seem to know everything, but really have no clue, they should be referred to as stretched ears. We appreciate your motherly opinions but keep in mind, you are apparently the brainwashed clone of a big corporation which herds the human race into a life draining game of follow the leader.
Her opinion is spot on for almost any job.
Maybe for any job that wants to treat its employees like clones without any individuality ran by a 1%er
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Are we to be impressed, sympathetic or understanding? Although I admire your initiative, your web design site is less than impressive. Even your contact info is not professional "holla@...". It seems that you are a part-time waiter with some web design skills that likes to blog. Perhaps you should be a full-time waiter that likes to blog. Welcome to the Occupy Movement.
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I'm surprised that performing in a professional manner makes you feel like a "suck up". If you can succeed on your own terms, more power to you.
I'm glad that you have a job at the shrimphouse. I'm sure that the work is difficult. I worked as a cook in my younger years and found it to be very demanding.
You left the URL http://richardkentgates.com as your day job. I still contend that the site is less than impressive, although I do wish you luck. I followed the link to citicommons. This appears to be a site that you host.
You need an "else" statement in your pseudocode. I = Happy.
As for my web design skills...they are zero. I was not comparing your skills to mine. I was comparing your site design to others that I have seen.
I think that we are WAY off topic.
indeed.
This post is awesome ... Summarizes OWS very very well!
Thanks mom. However, the fact Occupy isn't perfect does not mean the government has no problems. It seems your mother forgot to teach you that two wrongs don't make a right.
Ah, but three rights make a left. And that's the truth! The Left - as in Left Behind, Left in the Cold, Left Holding the Bag, are SICK of the Right-Wing propaganda that let all this predatory activity derail our economy and our country. Sorry Mom. I'm a mom too - with 2 in college, and I don't expect "free college" (I didn't get one free either), I DO have disgust that the "banks" charge an extra 2% and call it Financial "Aid"- it's a loan for Pete's sake! Why couldn't my kids get their loans directly from Dept of Education like we did? And why it tuition at MY public University 20 times more than when I went? And why are more out-of-state (wealthier) students allowed to take advantage of tax dollars that generations of my family paid for our children to attend. Sorry you think everyone wants a "hand out" when they're just stick that the system is stacked against them. I know - I grew up in the poorest of "the projects". So I've seen both sides - and believe me, the ones who "game" the system are the wealthy - by owning exhorbitant "check cashing" companies, charging phoney a $39 late fee on a $41 credit card balance, then jacking up the apr to 29% when we all know interest on OUR money that they use, is only .01%. So sorry Mom. This time you're out of touch. Dreds, piercings, etc are NOT what's causing the unemployment to stay high. It's greedy capitalists taking their factory jobs to exploit $2 a day labor, instead of supporting the greatness of America. I'm guessing THEIR moms said it was just "fine" - "they" were underprivileged anyway, so this is good for them. (remember THAT mom?)
I'm a Canadian and I vote NPD. I believe in free health-care, free education, no death penalty, no religion, etc... I'm far left. What made you think I was far right, and what's up with the overly romantic and long winded rant?
No, but two wrongs do make a profit!
I wish I could be a corporate drone who is so frightened of this irrelevant movement I felt the need to avoid it altogether by dashing to my over priced car... where I could reflect on how greedy and heartless I was... and ponder if my undocumented and underpaid maid was properly instilling those values in my children.
You're forgetting the fact that you stand for one of the wrongs.
Which is?
One i don't agree with is getting rid of guns.
What does this have to do with my post of two wrongs don't make a right? I wasn't talking about agreeing or not with getting rid of guns. I don't see how this could be one of the wrongs I was forgetting when it wasn't even one of the two wrongs I was talking about.
Sir can I please have some more?
If the serious protesters kicked out the hipsters, anarchists and people protesting stuff not related to OWS they would have had a chance. You guys have no real leadership. No one person to say "Get those fuckheads who are hurting our cause outta here".
There is a difference between hippies and hipsters. The reply does not reflect my view as I give tactics and strategies to the ows.
Oh yea I agree. However, both those subgroups are present at OWS.
It's a little tough to kick out the anarchists (and their friends), since they are the ones that are running this "resistance movement".
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11293836/1/meet-the-man-behind-occupy-wall-street.html
If they got rid of all the idiots they would then have way less than the 99% they claim to represent.
I love you, Mom. Thanks for teaching me all of the above. Because you did, I'm thriving even in this economy and look forward to making a meaningful contribution to our family's estate.
And therein lies the Wealth of a Nation. Thanks Daennera for reminding us all of that.
also not free - hundreds of billions of dollars to Bankers to back their trades in which they keep all the upside and we get nothing.
also not free - the lives of 18 year old kids who know no other option other than to risk their lives (they take all the downside) for our liberty (we take all the upside) in the military.
No thanks, mom, your mindset is part of the problem, not the solution.
No one actually has to serve in the military you ungrateful brat. Several of my friends want to do because of their sense of patriotism which you clearly do not have.
aside from the fact that compulsory military service was not even mentioned in my post, our military personnel take the downside (risk their lives) and we get the upside (liberty). and look what we do with some of that upside - give Bankers hundreds of billions of dollars out of our treasury to back their trades of which they reap all the upside. Oh yeah, and assholes such as yourself also use the upside by exercising your liberty to question the patriotism of those, such as myself, who disagree with you. Thank goodness your patriotism is not my patriotism. If that were so, the Founding Fathers would be rolling in their grave.
A bumper sticker spoke to me about this. Freedom isn't free? No that can't be it. What do you think?
I think it's obvious that you don't know shit about freedom.
My grandfather was killed in WW2 get off my ass you son of a bitch.
The loss of your grandfather in WW2 does not grant you any moral or intellectual superiority on Freedom or the American Dream. In other words, the loss of your grandfather does not bestow you with special judgement as to who is a patriot or what the American Dream is. Get off our ass, asshole.
No but it gives me a tad bit of experience in which I lose someone I care about to a cause I didn't understand. People in the military do great things and you sit back and complain about the fact that they're doing what they signed up to do. Why don't you try and do what they do? Oh wait that's right. Posting ridiculous bullshit online takes precedence.
We all lose people we care about for various reasons. Nowhere in my posts do I complain about the fact that they're (military personnel) doing what they signed up to do. Nowhere. I have no idea what you're referring to when you assert that.
"the lives of 18 year old kids who know no other option other than to risk their lives (they take all the downside) for our liberty (we take all the upside) in the military" Any comment?
That is not a complaint about military personnel doing what they signed up to do. It's an objective fact that many who enlist are motivated by other reasons than patriotism. The statement is part of a contrast between the risks the military takes (downside) and what we as a society do with the upside (liberty).
I see no problem with this.
It truly is an open society. You freely stated your opinion. We may or may not agree with you, probably depending more on whether we think we "get nothing" OR we are richly blessed.
Have a great life. Sorry you let your American Dream be stolen. I am hanging onto mine and passing it onto my children and grandchildren.
My American Dream is just beginning
Good for you - make it work for YOU.
You'd be more consistent if you wrote, "Go forth and may you be blessed with Your American Dream"?
No, not really. How about:
Go forth and may you be blessed. May your dreams come true as YOU WORK to make them come true.
The American Dream is simply a belief. The people that though it was a "happening" that felll into their laps are the ones that wake up and find that it doesn't happen unless you work for it.
Perhaps you are right that the American Dream is a belief. But the basic beliefs of the American Dream have essentially been realized for most generations of our history. And if the American Dream is just that - a dream, then the wealth and income inequality that has taken place over the past 30 years is a "real" nightmare.
Please explain the income inequality that you see as a nightmare and how that directly affects your choice of your way of life today??
Just wanting to know how life is from your point of view.
I'm grateful and fortunate that I live a comfortable life. Thankfully, it has given us the opportunity to help support my sister's family for the past 3 years. Her husband has been out of work multiple times since the recession started (cutbacks, downsizing). They have two young children. I only say that because most people understand how costly it is to raise children. Its not like they just have themselves to worry about. Among other things, in between jobs, we've paid their COBRA insurance premiums, because God forbid one of the kids should have an accident (because thats what kids do!) and end up in an emergency room or something. At one point they had no dental coverage and my niece was crying in pain everyday because her tooth hurt so bad. She needed a root canal and the dentist did it for free. Of course I would have paid for it , but the dentist was kind enough to comp it. I could keep going, but hopefully this gives you a pretty good idea how it has affected me.
My way of life is different, not only because we are helping my sisters family, but because I have zero confidence in this economy. I will not spend money that I otherwise might , for anything big and nonessential, like home improvements. I wish I could, I would love it and it would give some out of work construction contractor a job. Yes, I still spend money, but not as much, because the future is not looking very bright. And I'd rather hang on to as much cash as possible.
I am not complaining. All of this is extremely minor considering the hardships of many others.
I realize most of this is the result of the recession. Brought about by Wall Street. 30 years of income inequality is the bigger picture. The recession is a symptom of that.
SOMETHING to think about from the prospective of a baby boomer (almost).
You can take the scenerio from there and imagine how it will play out. This generation is in retirement years now, will release a certain amount of this wealth, and upon death, will release the remainder.
I would suggest that if you wish to see income equality for yourself, you build a nursing home, open an RV park in Phoenix, become financially involved in healthcare, become an estate planner (may be too late in many cases), a trust manager, an estate lawyer, etc.
Just my musings on a beautiful Tuesday.
I think you have a point. If you are talking about demographics, which I think is what you are saying here. If so, demographics is an issue that is and will be working against the economy. Because the releasing of cash (cashing in and spending retirement savings) will be more than offset by increased entitlement spending (SS and Medicare). Which is going to put an enormous strain on the government and thereby the economy in general.
However, wealth accumulation by the boomers (retirement savings) is different than income inequality. Income inequality is still a problem.
I'm not looking for income equality for myself. Like I said, I am well off financially already. But I agree, there are certain investments, things that are geared towards the aging boomers, that should do quite well. I don't want to be an estate planner. I employ one.
Bottom line, the middle class is the lifeblood of our country. If the middle class is suffering and losing traction, we all suffer. Its the opposite of trickle down. The pain will continue to trickle up, putting more and more pressure on the middle class, which results in the further socialization of our economy. I believe that Obamacare was the direct result of skyrocketing healthcare costs and wage stagnation. Something had to cover that gap. Thus Obamacare.
I know this is just a blog, but I think it is a very good read. Even if you don't take the time to read it, there are a few good charts here to consider.
http://bosilawhat.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/income-disparity-and-the-road-to-socialism/
There are so many points to consider.
Did your status as "well off financially" come from inheritance, or did it come from wise-hard work, saving, and sometimes forgoing that new Buick every year during your working years.
I see some of my grandchildren living paycheck to paycheck, talking about their cars and electronic gadgets, computers, and 56 inch flat screens, not even having a saving account and in some cases not a checking account, living in a rented trailer on wages that will not support a better place to live. BUT today they seem very happy.
And I see your point about Obamacare covering a gap. However, my fear is that this is part of what will kill the middle class. Too many gaps exist and we will look to the government for OUR bailout for each. Putting additional pressure on the workers of this nation and more borrowing when those workers can no longer cover the cost of the covers we put over the gaps.
I'll just say that - of course I believe in hard work. First I believe it is good for the soul. A close second is that money is a necessity. But hard work doesn't always come in the form of recieving a paycheck. It can also come in the form of raising a family, and doing volunteer work.
I have never ever - even in the best of times! defined myself by material things. Of course I like nice new things! But it is not the focus of my life. The material things I am blessed to have are a comfort, but don't really provide fulfillment. They don't feed my soul.
Yes, people that are living beyond their means, focusing on short term desires rather than long term security. I think that is a mistake.
But there are alot of people I think that are like my sisters family. Who are in trouble today, through no fault of their own. They are victims of terrible circumstances. Caused by years of bad government policies, as a result of government corruption. And the horrible recession brought on by Wall Street.
Point 3 - Yes, more socialization is not the answer. Thats is why this country needs to work towards strengthening and supporting the middle class, so they can take care of themselves, pay for their own healthcare etc. Or we all go down. The middle class is the foundation. Take out the foundation and the whole building collapses.
I don't know all the answers of how to strengthen the middle class. But I know that it is necessary. I think the first and best way to do that is to end government corruption by reforming the political system. There is too much money in the political system corrupting the decision making in Washington. Our government acts on behalf of the 1% that pays to put them in office. 99% are left with the scraps. This needs to be fixed first. Then we can work on fixing all the other problems we have, and hopefully find some solutions to helping the middle class help themselves.
Very good post. I will simply reply.
The middle class (we) are getting what we think we want by holding one or our hands out all the time. I agree with your points:
Both of my children and their families face this crisis. One has already lost their house and the other is so far behind in their payments that they will probably do so too. It is a horrible thing to watch and if a very fair plan can through that was equal to all middle class families, I would urge them to be a part of it. HOWEVER, is that plan favors some other the others, I would oppose it because that would mean they were bought and owned by the Government while the others kept their freedom. Thanks for the voice and the listen.
I am so sorry to hear about your childrens troubles. I cannot even imagine the pain you must be going through. My heart goes out to you ronjj. I really sincerely wish your family the best.
Its' been really nice talking with you. I hope when you have some time you will read that blog! I think you will like it. It says some of the things we have talked about here, only better than I can say!
so, for your convenience, I'll ignore the "richly blessed" in your comment
Don't pander to me. I don't deserve it and you sure didn't earn it.
I think you mean I haven't been "richly blessed" with the deservings and merit to pander to you.
Maybe and then again maybe not depends on what you mean by the word "it"
May g-d bless you with all that you feel you earned and deserve. And if you don't see the contradiction in that, you are too far gone.
Actually you are very correct. My family left Connecticut in the early 1700's and boy am I glad that they did. It really is great out here in the American Southwest.
Ever consider getting out a little yourself?
i'd bet highly that i've been out a lot more than you. but then again, experience is lost on shallow people, so there's no telling where you've been.
Let's look at a few words in your post:
"i'd, highly bet, i've, shallow, no telling,
Playing defense again this year??
With Your American Dream, I feel sorry for your children and grandchildren.
Now "open" you don't need to do that for me and my family. We don't need or even want your sympathy.
Alot of what you say I agree with. However, even if everyone practiced these "life lessons", perfectly, everyday - sadly, there would still be government corruption.
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Just more of the same.
Life is not fair. Survival of the fittest. Its okay that the US doesn't have free education or healthcare because it doesn't run on sunshine, blaming students for taking out free money when they were 18 with their parent's signatures...
Simple as that, life isn't fair. Deal with it! Everyone knows that, and protesting is just as bad as feeling sorry for yourself.
Well, if life isn't fair, and everybody knows it, why do so many people get worked up when the wealthy are robbed, kidnapped and held for ransom, victimized by terrorists, etc.? Just remember to tell them - "life isn't fair, don't feel sorry for yourself". Seriously, if organizations like OWS don't get traction and don't find a way to create greater equality, if we don't find a way to save democracy and equality and justice, then the poor will turn to criminal gangs/cartels, al-Qaida, whoever offers them an apparent path to dignity. And when that happens, they'll say something like "Don't blame the player, blame the game". Are you ready to accept that?
The mention of a brothel brought to mind that old saying, "he who sleeps in the parlor shall be the first to awaken." So fitting!
THIS (mostly).
an ows protester to my mommy- shut the --ck up. mother i rather do it myself.
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One would think so. But maturity enters into the mix too. If you act like you did when you were 15 years old - don't expect a lot of respect now that you are 25 and continue to act the same way.
Put simply - GROW THE --ck UP. Then you will be allowed to do it yourself.
He's just trolling. Don't encourage him. Some people think it's worth their time to pose as other posters. The more you reply, the more they'll keep it up. He's 16 years old. What do you expect?