Forum Post: A maximum wage for all people.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 9:19 a.m. EST by forlife
(18)
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We should not make money, we should earn money and nobody can honestly earn 500 million. There should not only be a minimum wage but also a maximum wage.
We, the people, are sick of managers writing bonuses to themselves for the great achievement of exploiting us. Every cent paid above the maximum wage should be taxed and flow into government spending - for education and job creation. A simple and feasable demand that everyone understands.
How come rockstars today are richer than scientists? Ever wondered why actors and singers get so much money? So the illusion is kept up, that one day, you can have it too. But the 99% will never have it. Not until there is a fair distribution of wages. We don't need to change a lot to make it work but we need to focus on redefining democracy and abolishing the capitalistic greed that has enslaved us. Laissez-faire is dead. It did not work.
Nobody should have millions of dollars when there are millions of hungry and sick.
This stuff is hilarious! I am laughing my butt off. There is no way that you people can be serious because it is impossible for anyone to be this ignorant...
nope, sadly it's not impossible. lol
Want a real laugh, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
This seriously is what Libertarians think we could have tomorrow ! As nice as it would be I don't think we are capable of it just yet. Or anytime in the next few hundred years.
Who the hell are you to dictate how much another person can make? Just because YOU don't know how to make millions of dollars honestly, doesn't mean it's not possible.
In our Constitutional Republic, you cannot take away the rights/property of another. If you are concerned about the millions of hungry and sick, why don't you start up a non-profit charity instead of counting on the corrupt politicians to take care of them!?
Or are you wanting the govt to do EVERYTHING for you that you can do for yourself?
The day that you learn that social worth is different than economic worth, you will be a lot better off. This is called capitalism. If you'd prefer to not participate in capitalism, then feel free to move to any of a number of Countries that have a different approach.
Can you please explain? Do you suggest there can be no struggle for balance?
Wages are based on supply and demand. They aren't based on personal worth or social worth. If you are in an industry with abundant supply of workers, wages will be suppressed. Take two college students graduating from college tomorrow. They both spent 4 years working hard. One enters a flooded market with an abundance of candidates. The other enters an industry that can't find enough candidates. There will be a huge difference in wages between those two. There is nothing that should be done to fix that, correct it or otherwise change it.
In my eyes, a maximum private income (max-wage) would allow for the creation of many more jobs because the additional money would be retained in the companies and invested in departments, such as rnd. We would have higher minimum wages and better health benefits for the very same reason. The total cost of operation for a company would basically stay the same. What would change is that CEOs would not be writing each other checks for 350 million after they have destroyed a company with high risk investments, just like AIG
The very top earners would just go somewhere else, and take ALL of their money with them. It's good to have basic laws against murder, fraud, theft, etc, but you understand why you cannot legislate morality, right? Rather, you can, it just has never worked.
But the government can regulate taking taxpayers money to give it to the poor CEOs for next years bonuses because they have done such a good job. That seems to be working.
Did I say that it was? I am against taxation/theft for almost any reason.
Really? You are a nut job aren't you. Stop protesting and go borrow an economics and a history book. When you can understand some of the bigger words, come back.
Pathetic: people like you are the reason people not like you should own guns.
money is gained though other method besides wages
for example renting property to people
I would support an extremely high cap. Some people did earn it and should be well rewarded, but even in those cases there is a limit to reasonable compensation. I also would like further controls to address other types of economic oppression. We need to find a way to focus on helping our fellow human beings rather than making the fastest buck.
Arguments against a maximum wage cap:
Board members would use corporate money to fund the very same lifestyle.
Employees would not be motivated because there is no real "jackpot" in the ned of the career.
Can you help me argue those and think of other ones?
Your third point is very cynical. Do you really think people only work to make a "jackpot?"
If that's the reason YOU work, then you're wasting your life.
I dont see anyone suggesting what the "maximum" wage should be. I see schnitzlefritz suggesting a minimum wage of $35/hour. If we used this and followed Japans rule of thumb of maximum wage of 11x then maximum wage would be $385/hour or $800K/year. Sounds reasonable.
The cap does not have to be a solid number, it can be a fair distribution from the lowest levels of the company to the highest. This would create an initiative for the CEO to raise the lowest wages in the company. The same can be projected onto into the politacal structures. The better off your country is the more the better off the political leadership will be. President gets 100% of a number , and then the distribution goes to the lowest paying jobs, which get 5%. Calculate the difference in numbers between any wall street CEO and a factory worker. The gap is huge and growing with every crissi. EDIT: just as JazzBenson is saying.
Surely we still need some form of hard number rather than a vague "fair distribution". Maybe instead of maximum wage being 800K it is 20x the minimum company salary?
I believe I am correct in saying of 1st world nations Japan has the narrowest distribution with CEO wages averaging 11x average workers wage, USA has the widest distribution at 475x average workers wage. However, I don't see how a significant increase in minimum wage is workable under our current Capitalist system as small businesses would not be able to afford to pay $35/hour which would put small businesses out of business and bring the economy to its knees.
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Reminder: do not respond to the Trolls, naysayers and surly types.
Why do rockstars get paid so much? Please watch an application of supply and demand. Anyone can sing a song, might not be good, but it is a song. Only 1 person can sing the songs that you faithfully downloaded, put on your iTunes, and rock out when you pimp your Prius Some with athletes. I cannot throw those passes like Brady.
can you mix it like Dan Shechtman?
If you are referring to the materials science master... oh no.... bet he is pretty well off though...
wish I could mix it like Moby.
If you want "job creation," end the minimum wage.
Who is going to buy products if there is no money in the hands of the ppl? If there is no need for products, why should we employ people to produce them?
Why do you believe that no minimum wage means "no money in the hands of the ppl"?
I don't have a strong stand on minimum wage. I agree, it has major positive implications but I have seen one too many examples where it has not made poeple better off.
I would like to quote human rights 23 here, which in real life is a joke but anyway:
Article 23.
I think that this is a great idea. A maximum wage, or a wage cap is truly an interesting, and positive idea. How can a global minimum wage be a rational idea when it is impossible while even a small number of individuals take in the majority of wealth in the form of bonuses, base sallary, comissions, bribes, corperate purchased drugs, prostitutes... As there is i finite amount of wealth to be shared across the globe? Spread it around: maybe not ther drugs, and prostitutes though.
Just came up with a little example of why a unfettered wage set for those who set the wages does not work:
Say there are 4 people operating a farm with a 2 thousand dollars rolling into it a week on average based upon its annual revenue. They agree that there should be a minimum wage of $500 per week per person. The person who organizes the workers takes in $2,000 per week.
How can the minimum wage be brought into reality if the organizers of the other 3 workers is pulling in half of the $2,000? The math just does not work.
I think that this is a great idea. A maximum wage, or a wage cap is truly an interesting, and positive idea. How can a global minimum wage be a rational idea when it is impossible while even a small number of individuals take in the majority of wealth in the form of bonuses, base sallary, comissions, bribes, corperate purchased drugs, prostitutes... As there is i finite amount of wealth to be shared across the globe? Spread it around: maybe not ther drugs, and prostitutes though.
Just came up with a little example of why a unfettered wage set for those who set the wages does not work:
Say there are 4 people operating a farm with a 2 thousand dollars rolling into it a week on average based upon its annual revenue. They agree that there should be a minimum wage of $500 per week per person. The person who organizes the workers takes in $2,000 per week.
How can the minimum wage be brought into reality if the organizers of the other 3 workers is pulling in half of the $2,000? The math just does not work.
What makes you think you have the right to cap what an individual makes? There are plenty of millionaires that have EARNED their money by building up small businesses that provide jobs for the local economy. In your utopia who is going to be the job creators? Do you think they will start a company with all the tax burden you are putting forth in you "plan"? You seem to be some equality Nazi. People are not equal. Sorry to burst your bubble. Some are geniuses. Some are retards. Some are beautiful. Some are ugly beyond belief. That is the way of the world and by instating some wacked out basement and ceiling on revenues you will not change that. Don't let the fact that you went to college and now you work at Target blur your vision. Don't let your laziness control your thought process. There will always be a master and a slave. Are you debt free? If not then you're a slave. Don't want to be a slave? Then pay off all you credit cards you're living your false life off of and live below your means. You're a slave and dint even know it. WAKE UP!!!
Companies would not pay higher income than the max cap. They would retain their earnings or invest them, which would create more employment, higher min wages and more private sector spending.
Only reason Laissez-faire is dead is that the crooks in washington killed it.
no reasonable person would ever let 100% of earned income above a certain amount flow in to the abyss of U.S. Government spending. They would set up a charitable organization and direct the money to be spent on their chosen causes as opposed to allowing the idiot politicians to spend it
Exactly!
I think everyone should make $35/hour whether sitting at home doing nothing, sweeping floors, waiting tables, acting, coming up with new drugs to fight cancer or being the CEO of a major corporation. Then everyone will be equal and we will all live in peace and harmony in our newly created utopia.
No you would not. Some of the people would live below their means and save up money. While others would still live beyond their means, run up debt, and still be a slave. Nothing you can imagine will ever work better than Capitalism. No economic system is perfect so deal with the one we have and figure out how to make the most of it. Don't just sit on your moms couch and paint protest signs. There are more opritunity in this great country than you could ever know!
Well stated and I agree 100%.
You are suggesting exaclty the same as I am. Our actions should be rewarded with measure. Where is the measure of reward when you compare the income of multi millionaire rock stars to the Nobele Prize for a lifetime achievement.
No, actually the point I was truing to make was that if everyone has the same incentive to be productive and succeed, there will no longer be success and the society will crumble and die. Why do you think that the pilgrims abandoned the Mayflower Compact and communal form of government in favor of private property rights and individual freedom to produce and trade their goods.
A lot of colonists abandoned the colonies to live with the Natives.
It wasn't because the Natives had developed a strong economic system where everyone was allowed to pursue monetary profit. In fact, it was because society was so fair that everyone was allowed to pursue their spiritual profits.
There would still be people better of than others but the gap would be smaller.
Uh, I don't think so, but you can always dream, even though history is not on your side.
What is happening right now is a redistribution of money. I can give you many examples of huge (billions worth) off-shore fonds, which have made profits diring the worst economic situation. Those fonds are under the control of private bankers and manipulate stock prices to their liking. After the money is pulled of the markets, the tax payers are asked to recapitalize the market, so it can be done again. This pulls the money out of ppls pockets and puts it in the pocket of the .001% and after the show is over they celebrate. Every major bank has off-shore firms or invests through them.
Then work through the political system to get laws changed or created to address specific actions that are or should be illegal. Maximum salaries ore not the answer.
I made a crap ton of money during the economic down turn of 2008. You know why? I had no debt and cash to spare. I had the ability to buy stuff very cheap while all the people living paycheck to paycheck freaked out and sold everything they could. I bought tons of stocks at prices well below their true value. Its called being prepared. Deal with it.
People sold everything they could because they were scared to lose everything. You can't blame a single mother to not be scared that she will not have money to feed her child. Many are not so well educated in terms of finance like you are, because they work 2 shifts.
If you say, that the mom should not have invested in the first place, well than her savings would be eaten by inflation (real inflation ).
Some people should not invest at all. My point is that nearly everyone in America is a slave. A slave to banks. A slave to credit card companies. A slave to car financial companies. And everyone of those masters could be defeated if people would just live below their means instead of thinking they "deserve" a flat screen tv and a big house!
MJT: I did not say cap on earnings. A huge tax on high private income that would effectively create a maximum wage.
Love it.
Interesting suggestion, and totally academic. I want to know, what are you doing about it? Have you closed your accounts? Have you stopped paying your debts? Where is the action? Where are your TEETH?
We created the social contract to protect us from actions that we don't want in our society. Such a change can be reached by consensus and laws and not good-will.
Super duper. Where's the action with what are you doing. The main stream media portrays our group as lazy philosophers, at best! Do something that will really agitate the banks - CREATE TENSION, peacefully of course.
I am my friend, I am. Unfortunatelly, I can't be on the street with you guys, I wish I could.
I agree. Make a million, even several, even 20. Gluteny should be illegal. It's preposterous that someone can hoard millions while others can't eat. I agree about entertainers, as well. When others can't even afford the $20 to even go see a movie, the movie stars are making millions to make the movie. Imagine if things were leveled out - the enterainment industry is no longer legitimate art - yes, a wage, yes, profits, but horribly glutenous - put a cap on the earning and it all trickles down, no longer necessary to charge $20 for a movie ticket, they could charge $1 and spread the wealth around. They still get rich, everyone benefits.
Hmmm, I think you're out of line suggesting that someone should have a cap on earnings.....If you bank at BofA, JPM, Wells Fargo, you're complicit.
How are rock stars and movie starts rich? Is this serious commentary? Everyone on this webpage purchases music, goes to concerts, or buys some merchandise with their logos on it. If you disagree with rock stars being rich stop supporting them with your purchases. Why is it their fault Americans continue to buy their products. No one forces us to buy their products. We willing exchange our currency for their goods.
I agree with this - we are allowing this to happen! The glutenous are morally bereft, so don't support them! I haven't been to a movie or bought any mainstream media (only CD's I've bought are directly from my friends who've made them with their own art, etc.) in ages. If you need to complain about the price of something, don't buy it - find an alternative. The masses lack that self control in their consumerism.
maybe Obama can appoint you as the 1st "Wage Czar". In your all-knowing wisdom you can decide what is "fair" compensation for every single occupation and worker in the U.S.
The merchendise that we buy is overprised because the profits go into the top 1% wages. There is nothing wrong with getting this products, the prise they cost is absurd.
PleaseExplain: How is setting a tax on income different from determining a maximum wage?
The price we pay for goods is due to the amount it costs to develop, manufacture, market, distribute, and sell those goods. It's economics, pure and simple. Each chain adds 10% or whatever to the cost in order to pay their own expenses, for example taxes the government levies at them. This is how the world works.
learn how to spell PRICE and maybe I'll respond
Don't be a jerk. Focus on the intent.
Perhaps if there was more focus on execution than "intent", some of you you would be better off and less whiny. The inability to spell simple words and the belief that it really doesn't matter, are part of the problem. "Gluteny" is not a word. Gluttony is one of the seven mortal sins. Gluten is a wheat byproduct. It is possible that the reason some do better than others is that they actually achieve more.
Yes, you're right. I'm too simple for a conversation with you. And obviously nowhere near as intelligent. We should just throw this all in the shitcan 'cause we're all a bunch of lazy morons. Thanks for helping me see the light.