Forum Post: A Functional Demand for Broadened Appeal, Future Growth and Success of OWS... Food for thought
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 1:29 a.m. EST by yasu4303
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We are fighting in the style of those fighting for a democracy, when we need to be fighting WITHIN a democracy. We are making demands for things that must be voted on by a congress, where we have no supporters, meanwhile our equally vocal opponents already have seats in both houses. We are fighting for the 99% but our objectives appeal to a narrow demographic. We have numbers with no leaders, and we have an image problem to say the least. Does this sound like a campaign that is aimed at achievement? That needs to change before we lose the spotlight - that is to say, NOW! Saul Alinsky teaches that a victory, even a small one, is important to a burgeoning group’s future success. He also teaches to fight within the present framework, and to grow in number by broadening appeal. He teaches to keep the bigger picture and the greater good in mind, and put aside personal idealistic objections. These guidelines would each deserve chapters of discussion on how they apply to today, but there is one rule I would like to break. Alinsky does not suggest attempting to “educate”, but the present framework requires that we cautiously pursue what he might consider a dangerously didactic approach. We are in an information war, and the other side is already well entrenched, wealthy, and has “educated” our opponents. We are far behind, and must take steps to do the same. We are on the side of history, so we have nothing to hide and no need to spend millions of dollars fabricating deceptive statistics. (This is the conclusion to a much longer document detailing each of these points, here shortened for forum posting, but it would be worth your time to consider the value of each of these objectives) In the interest of achieving something immediately, of broadening our appeal, of fixing our economy from the bottom up, of the longevity of this group, of clarifying goals, of fighting in an information war, of participating in a democracy, and in the interest of protecting life, peace and our great nation, I recommend one simple, unexciting first demand of many: One full day joint session of congress, along with Ben Bernanke and the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, hosting Richard Koo as a guest speaker. Who is Koo? Koo is the world’s foremost expert on balance sheet recessions. He has served as a consultant to Japan during their balance sheet recession, and he has talked down a fiscally conservative congress there. Not only is he the world’s highest expert on the subject and has done this before, but he is also in favor of an expansive fiscal policy - that is to say, he’s on our side. He is not the master of some crackpot theory like a liberal version of Ron Paul. The business experts I see as guests on CNBC say we are in a balance sheet recession countless times. This is already a mainstream and readily accepted theory, but the people who determine our fiscal policy have no idea how a balance sheet recession works. Moreover, in a balance sheet recession, monetary policy is rendered ineffective, so Bernanke’s efforts are all for not, leaving our last and ONLY line of defense in the hands of congress. For the education of congress and probably most of us as well, Richard Koo needs to become a household name. Koo being unknown will not be a downside. Remember the good ol' days when we didn't know who Sarah Palin was? Let Koo present the evidence, let congress be the judge in this very public trial, and after having seen the evidence, let us all be the judges in November. THIS is the face of democracy, and the new face of our information war. Threats and demands from maybe 100,000 claiming to be the 99% rather than expanding their objectives and appeal to do something great and BECOME the 99% is not democracy. Please consider what I have written, do your own research, and consider that mass appeal and accomplishment are at least as important as courage and idealism. Agree with me or not, we need to re-evaluate our strategy, act fast, and worry about future objectives when we get there.
Please read: http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
This isn't an attack on the rich. There is nothing wrong with being rich. There is a problem with being rich and stealing from the poor. There is a problem with few people controlling the wealth, and to that end there is a problem when those who control the wealth are not helping their country and society progress.
How do the rich steal from the poor?
Think about it like this. Rich people put extra money in the banking system in order to earn more money without doing anything productive. On the other hand, poor people borrow money from the bank which they then pay interest on, so that they can grow the bank account of rich people. Much of the middle class inevitably become enslaved to their debt. Is that the free market? An endless cycle of debt? An economy which utilizes war to sustain itself. Fuck naw. That aint right. That aint American.
Whether you'd like to believe it or not, we are all enslaved to the mass debt that America has accrued over the years. What will we do? How can we break free?
End the Federal Reserve. It's unconstitutional and damn-fucking immoral.
Some say real free-market economics is the best system, although we've never really seen what that looks like. The Federal Reserve squashed any hopes of a free-market economy. In my opinion the most innovative, necessary, and implementable solution is a resource based economy.
Project Earth: A Resource Based Economy Explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
If you love capitalism, but hate the Federal Reserve, ask yourself this: if the current market is a failure, how can you erase the world's debt? We in the US owe the world everything. Not only are we indebted to the world literally, but we, the leaders of the free world, have been leading the destruction of the environment for how long? Do we not owe it to the world to fix it? We have much of the world's resources, we have the greatest education system in the world, what are we doing wrong?!?! Why do we not take it upon ourselves to construct a sustainable global economy that is based on the natural resources of the planet and use this global economy the repay our debt to the world? I know people love to fantasize about the wealthy and powerful America, but listen, we're indebted to the world! Time to grow a pair and pay the world back. And I know, a resource based economy is “Communist” and “Utopian” STOP ASSIGNING MEAINGLESS WORDS TO IDEAS. The system is a resource based economy, and it is neither communist nor utopian.
eeyea... this is exactly what I am warning against. All out revolution is not going to happen today, and you are not going to get half the country to go along with a Resource Based Economy.
Democracy = Broaden Appeal, achieve success, establish legitimacy, win votes, make change
Democracy does NOT = Think of best possible solution, protest happens, magic, get results based on a minority opinion.
Could you accept "Economic recovery for the 99%" as a worthy cause? If so, put down your ideals and get something done.
I understand that a resource based economy is a hard concept to grasp, but here's what you have to take into consideration: the system is totally rigged. The Federal Reserve must go, no ifs ands or buts. But you can't demand ending the Fed without proposing a solution, that is my solution. If you have your solution, propose it.
No, I watched, and I understood. This is an engineer's utopia, and while there was plenty on operation and calculation, there was no mention of how job selection or assignment would work. For job selection, at some point there has to be some way to calculate how many hours of communal stuff usage a CEO should get vs a janitor. Or in the absence of a reward system, do we all just have assigned jobs because there is no incentive to get ahead anywhere? History tells me the latter doesn't work, and the former goes in the face of everything we know about human nature and ownership. Then even if you were to work that out, there's still no way to mathematically assign a value based on resources or even usage to things people illogically want. Are we just assuming capitalistic urges to make and consume useless garbage will just vanish? Or is there some scientific way other than supply and demand to assign value to something so useless as a Beanie Baby or a Tickle Me Elmo?
Deep in your heart, do you really believe you can convince Americans we're getting rid of ownership and capitalism, and we're going to take up a scientific engineering utopia? Remember, this is, the United States of I-voted-for-Bush-for-2-terms America. I AM an engineer, and not only do I not think this will work based on utopian track records, I guarantee you can't sell this to 50% of America, particularly when we're so much closer to living in the Libertarian free trade utopia.
So again, I know this is a big thing to ask, but will you put down your ideals in the interest of not wasting this opportunity and making incremental improvements?
And for the record, I'm not even a conservative and I and many others would disagree that the Fed needs to go. It was not their failing that got us in this mess, but rather the lack of understanding of the banking system and how to properly regulate it. Also, the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Both of those responsibilities fall under fiscal policy and regulation and are failings of CONGRESS. Those who support the removal of the Federal Reserve forget the monetary problems of and before the great depression. Paul Volcker was instrumental in getting us through the 80's, and though Alan Greenspan failed to foresee the coming collapse, he was able to maintain reasonable interest rates and liquidity levels for decades.
The banks, corporations, and the federal reserve are the scapegoats of liberals the same way immigrants and moochers are to conservatives.
So here's where we don't see eye to eye: the Federal Reserve. It's a Ponzi scheme. The global financial market has been manipulated to be one gigantic Ponzi scheme and now the United States finds itself in 14.8 trillion dollars of debt with no escape plan. This is why I propose a resource based economy: because I understand that World War II brought us out of the Great Depression and I'm not trying to go through World War III so that we can create more jobs, to create more debt, to create more war. Fuck that. The military industrial complex is FUCKED, and the militarily industrial complex is funded by the FEDERAL RESERVE. If Congress didn't hire a private bank so that they could print all the money in the fucking world we wouldn't be in this fucked up situation.
So why will the American people buy into a resource based economy? Because we are utterly fucked as a country and we need to take concrete actions to solve our fucking debt to the world. Americans are so naive, they just want to make a few changes here and there and think that this debt crisis will somehow work itself it. IT WON'T. There is impending doom in the financial markets, and when it comes the American people are going to have a rude awakening.
I can tell there is little chance you will be supporting this cause, but incremental change is the only way. In a democracy you have to make steps to gain legitimacy.
I don't have the time in the day to tell you all the things wrong with your assessment of the Federal Reserve, but here's a quick summary: 1) Fed not a ponzi scheme, it doesn't pay investors, and it doesn't use new investment money to pay off old investors. 2) The Fed doesn't really print money, they just control the interest rates, and hopefully inflation and the monetary supply (when we're not in a liquidity trap). 3) The Fed controls monetary policy, not fiscal policy. Fiscal policy is where debt and deficits come from. That would be congress's job, which is exactly who we need to go after. 4) WWII was ended by government spending and full productivity, which doesn't imply a war. 5) From a financial perspective America is not very fucked at all, just less than optimal. Not to mention even if we were we could default and start over. See the Latin American Debt Crisis.
I would recommend you read Koo, but I think you need to start further back. Nouriel Roubini has a good book on how we got in this mess. I watched your video, please consider looking into my references. Then reconsider putting down utopian ideals in favor of getting something done.
I would recommend having a greater understand of the financial system before you debate the issues.
Please use paragraphs! :)
I am trying to figure out how >.< do you know?
Sorry, I don't think I can teach it. I just break when there's a natural break in the topic.
lol, obviously I typed the thing with paragraphs. I mean, do you know how to post with paragraphs. I posted it and it deletes all my paragraphs. I tried using HTML code, and that didn't work either.
Oh, sorry, sometimes I think too literally.
I just hit return a couple of times. What browser are you using?
google chrome. I'll repost using IE or Firefox.
I'm using Chrome and don't have any problems.