Forum Post: A few ideas - Reaching More People
Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 30, 2012, 11:26 a.m. EST by bullfrogma
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Apparently political buttons to push for achiving the goal of a healthy government, one that can make decisions based on life, are already well understood. The repeal of citizens united and to eliminate corporate personhood. That's huge, because it tells us something that has to happen.
Otherwise they have all the power and time that they need to define and adjust their own strategy. From this effort we would stand a better chance of much more functional change. Monopoly is a constraining dogma, and the sooner we break free is the sooner we get back to life/progress.
I've been trying to promote that we boil something down for the mass, and then connect our resources to all point at it. Create a web of unification so people everywhere can notice and be given the chance to understand our situation. Occupy could make this thing happen, so why not?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/message-from-anonymous-interesting/
This is interesting because they also beg occupy to create a website, a place to organize, but something good enough to go viral. Something simple and perfected enough for the mass to get a firm grip on because that's what the mass needs, something absurdly effortless. It's damage done, and we have to work with that.
https://movetoamend.org/ looks pretty good and is ready to go, maybe just use that. But what occupy can really do well is launch a campaign to network all activism. Call every school in every state, connect with their clubs, "this is it, the big one," pass it on to every organisation who fight the good fight so they can help showcase it. If occupy officially announced a plan of action to the world such as this and asked everyone to point at a website, one thing, it would go a long way.
If this amendment would help so much, then make it happen. Wield the engrossing combination of communication and reliability. If everyone points to a website, whichever works best, and creates a mass focus on one thing, consistantly, it will happen. So if this is what occupy could do, unite people, then why not?
. . .
It seems like this is the best change to our government we could make right now, a stepping backward. Aside from that, holding a public space specifically to brain storm problem solving would boil down that specifically, and that is something we could really use. Forming a local group is good, but therising reminded me of something called groupthink. I don't believe that would happen in the public becuase it's too large of a group and the internet is too anonymous, especially if we had more than one think tank to explore. After a while some really good ideas would just stick, the kind of things we need.
I've been thinking of it in the form of a Foundation Of United Rights, something, an organisation that is dedicated to democracy and equal rights. The government should support our health and independence, but everything else should be our own creations, undictated by anything but the most simple foundation, equal rights. But having a space held for public problem solving could happen anywhere. This is practically one right here ... the only one.
Goodbye computer. Just one last thing about this for summary.
Never before have so many people become addicted to something like the internet. Everybody has their head in a phone or computer. News has become a trivial thing, like entertainment, we are numb.
The internet is the most powerful communications dynamic ever created. You'll need people on the streets to help advertise, but you really need something on the internet that can actually be pervasive.
People need to be spoon fed, and handed something to do on a silver platter. Otherwise they're not going to do anything except follow the contiguous forces of a world subjectively around them.
I've only wanted to draw attention to the strategy involved with marketing, that getting through to a mass audience requires the combination of being elevator music yet having a strong identity.
Good luck to all of you, for the sake of everything.
Marketing is a very practical idea which means it's practically useless here.
On the one year anniversary of my post http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/ I just might attempt a cyber marketing campaign.
Nice post. I also read that incestuous relationship between bankers business and congress, and i like how it comes down to what we need to fix things, and on the other hand to maybe start over. Write up a whole new government with all the overcomplications taken out, focused on the good things.
I never knew how to program. Everything was an experiment. A blank page and a goal would turn into a mountain of glitches, bugs and abducted logic. Fixing thing after thing would pile into a huge complication of fixes causing more problems. I would start over with a new blank page and the same goal. With more familiarity you actually do a better job, and you create a much more simple project.
Another good reason to use the internet for uniting people, while we still can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzNQarkk95Q
Spreading videos like this are great things to do. However I feel like they get lost to a huge number of people, just being another thing in the super storm of information running around on the net.
If we could take the best of these youtube videos and package them into one thing, one site that the occupy movement could spread and maintain focus upon, it could actually reach all people.
Good video on the urgency of now.
Can anyone help me understand why of all places the occupy forum has no interest in talking about how to unite people?
If our situation for survival is reaching some climax, uniting people and mass understanding are more important than ever. Maybe some of us are mentally prepared for what could happen but certainly not most people. A strategy for growing food and creating communities might be good to prepare for.
"Foundation Of United Rights". That title just 'sings'!! I'm not familiar with the work of all the individuals you name, but there are some really good ideas here.
I thought so too, but i'm not sure how to interpret the lack of response. It makes me wonder how much of this movement could be a controlled fire. You can't fight a landslide by running with it.
bensdad's website is http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com although it hasn't been loading for me recently (not sure why but there's always something funky about free hosting).
Realize not one person would introduce Article V, a convention to propose amendments to the constitution; at the NYCGA as a demand. Realize that in 1911 the requisites were met and congress failed to call a convention. A lawsuit uncovered this about 5 years back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs7qIQ1VkEg
Create a web of unification so people everywhere can notice and be given the chance to understand our situation.
Anonymous took this concept for a forum, which makes the agreement the most visible thing; to a corporate software producer and was told, "We don't want to be responsible for making the populations dominant over corporations." http://algoxy.com/poly/poll_to_post.html A very different concept of human intellectual interaction and opinion forming.
If occupy officially announced a plan of action to the world such as this and asked everyone to point at a website
There have been 2 OWS related websites built that state they seek to effect what the Poll_to_Post forum describes above. Neither one worked even as good as this forum which censors and manipulates.
but something good enough to go viral
The Poll_to_Post is good enough for that.
network all activism
Article V and proposals for amendment by state delegates to the convention is the optimum situation to network all activism. However, proper preparation needs to be made by amendment prior to conducting a general convention. Three amendments effect the below make the nation constitutional enough to know constitutional intent, which all amendments must have.
1)End the abridging of free speech
2)Campaign finance reform
3)Secure the vote
https://movetoamend.org/ looks pretty good
They were unable to discuss the effect of preparatory amendment when I met with the director in Santa Monica in 2011.
article v site:movetoamend.org
A site search finds a number of .pdfs showing municipalities interest in Article V, but movetoamend seems to not have an opinion.
If this amendment would help so much, then make it happen
Asking congress to amend is not functional. Some fear Article V being highjacked or running away. They also fail to analyse the effect of preparatory amendment.
It seems like this is the best change to our government we could make right now
Yes, and all we have to do is agree upon our prime human purposes because in reality, they are social reflections of the service of constitutional principle.
That's what's worried me about everything, in passing an amendment, it's all about legislature, and no where does it say that if the entire population agrees does that count.
This idea about marketing got sort of spread out a lot. It's basically this:
Whoever makes these nice websites for occupy should sit down and make something like Represent.Us did, which is an exhibit of one thing and simple enough for anyone. If we want the elimination of corporate personhood, then start with that.
Then, make it official and use the network of activism occupy has already created to focus on it until the mass has been seeing this same thing everywhere. That's it. Make it simple, official, and focused. Occupy can do this, and it would penetrate the information war faster than anything else could.
Lets just say that we had a petition with 75% of america on it. Legally what could that even do?
bullfrogma wrote: "That's what's worried me about everything, in passing an amendment, it's all about legislature, and no where does it say that if the entire population agrees does that count."
I think you refer to congress when amendments are proposed there. Article V proposed amendments can be ratified by the states legislatures when 3/4 accept the amendment. In that case congress nor the president have any say.
bullfrogma wrote: "Lets just say that we had a petition with 75% of america on it. Legally what could that even do?"
The problem is that it is not defined legal process. With 75% it might not matter because of the social pressure alone. Politics will sway.
With 75%, in some ways that similar to 3/4 of the states.
It's easier to influence a state legislature but constituents have to have a legally founded agreement that is simple and at the root of an issue. There is no doubt about our right to have a convention to propose amendments and the state legislations know that. IF Americans are using constitutional intent, THEN state legislators will have to go along, or be obviously opposing constitutional intent. Time for a special election to get a new legislator.
This comes down to Americans rejecting partisan politics and settling for nothing less than compliance with primary constitutional intent by the federal government. Americans will have to be well versed in fundamental constitutional intent. This is why the preparatory amendments start at the beginning
1)End the abridging of free speech. 2)Campaign finance reform 3)Secure the vote
bullfrogma wrote: "Whoever makes these nice websites for occupy should sit down and make something like Represent.Us did, which is an exhibit of one thing and simple enough for anyone. If we want the elimination of corporate personhood, then start with that."
Hmmm, we NEED control first. That takes authority. Article V is the ultimate authority of the combined states. Free speech unabridged will go a looooooooooooong way towards correcting the corporate personhood issue.
bullfrogma wrote: "Then, make it official and use the network of activism occupy has already created to focus on it until the mass has been seeing this same thing everywhere. That's it. Make it simple, official, and focused. Occupy can do this, and it would penetrate the information war faster than anything else could."
Occupy won't work with the law and the constitution. They want all new socialism. That's why they fail. Americans mostly love the sentiments, demands, etc. but the constitution which is in place must be used first, and used properly. If that fails, occupy will get further with socialism.
Occupy needs to be accountable to the many people that have supported it BECAUSE of the demands. Occupy never actually sought the best method to see demands met. The demands were only a reasonable human authority used to ring a bell, get some attention etc.
Interesting. What do you mean by control and authority with article V? The something similar to Represent.Us i imagine would be that political plan which only needs more people to back it up.
Article V is actually the supreme authority of the land. When a convention of delegates bring proposed amendment to the states legislations, the result has higher authority than any other legal mechanism.
There are no limits to Article V. We, the people define them within our states. Without limits, control isunlimited.
Basically consider that anyone posting here NOT providing adequate, evidenced reason for their opposition here to Article V, as someone working to limit the peoples authority and control.
I don't give a crap what they write. That IS the effect of their action.
I think this is the best way to reach and change the world. http://occupywallst.org/forum/beat-them-at-their-own-game-the-99er-conglomerate/ Please reply there so others have a chance to see it at the top.
Unity is the great challenge of the day. There needs to be something extraordinary and revolutionary to bind them... something pervasive with a clear focus and vision.
That's a good way we could actually strike, with ourselves to fall back on, a network of fuctionality.
Here's a thought though, take food for example. To make enough food for everyone, the mass, you need land and production. We've grown into this and they have a monopoly on it. They're going to put up quite a fight to not let that landscape change, and maybe that's a war we just can't avoid.
Cool idea. And pervasive is a good word for revolution.
Now what about the internet, the most powerful communications device ever created? That most people live and breathe by it these days, and they don't care about anything else. Moral denial is no sweat compared to the daily routine and comforts of modern vices.
Imagine if Sony tried to launch an advertisement campaign through nothing but word of mouth. Imagine if their only presence on the internet was scattered on various websites with nothing attractive, simple or consistent. Overwhelmed by uncertainty, if not obscurity.
Consider this, that right now we don't have Gandhi. Right now is different. Right now we have the internet, and a flagship is just like a leader, it's something to stand behind and physically push. How can we reach more people, without something to hold on.
Change society? As in eliminating the rapacious paper chasing war on our minds which monopoly attempts to brainwash and control, instead of allowing society to freely be whatever variety is natural? If everybody had creative freedom to their personal culture we would be so much more than this.
Would change be that balance between nature and technology, that technology doesn't interfere in what is already made to work? Nature doesn't have a front and never faces you, yet we have created a world with signs and advertisement which constantly points to us, continuously cultivating that ego.
Reaching the mass takes very real marketing practices, the same kinds which every single big name company duplicates. Have a fleet of ships but also have a flagship. The mass can't comprehend every ship, but they can keep an eye on one. This is what needs to be consistent or else they will loose grip and drown in the super storm of propaganda. If you want people to listen, or even participate, everything needs to be easy. And if you want people to agree and unite then you can't have an opinion because people want their own opinions, even if they are the same.
Really great music video by Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul.
Raging Arundhati Roy + electric guitar, Pnubalistych.
Gotta love seeing a bird gliding while hearing a passing jet, as if the bird was pretending.
Hey...link doesn't seem to work http://occupywallst.org/forum/message-from-anonymous-interesting/ I have an idea for this...with insufficient skills to realise a site
That post was odd, scroll down and there's another link at the bottom for a rededit post.
Maybe a lot of people who become homeless are struggling with health, addictions or other reasons, and the prejudice they face serves to exacerbate their problems. I meet a lot of angry homeless people, some transformed into criminals by their experiences being incarcerated (learning to hate a system that treats them like garbage).
But aside from people having a hard time, i feel like if everyone had to be homeless for a few years we'd remember how easy life really is and maybe stop being so afraid of it. They make so much money off the desperation to keep everything we've been made so absolutely to think that we need.
I understand why i get harassed for sleeping in the dunes, because if it were okey then the dunes would be full of the criminals they've created, but then if it were okey there might not be so many criminals. If i had to imagine a functional world it would be that compromise between technology and nature, when nature becomes part of life again and not just technology.
Bullfrogma...Sounds like you are ready for some action...and have somewhat had enough of the pontification. What are your skills....what are your passions?
Just sold my laptop and was given their old one, which i'm about to give to a friend. I'll be hitting the road in a few weeks. Was just trying to offer ideas that someone else might be able to use.
I worked for a few years on this website, until people who wanted me to think they were cia came into my life, threated to kill me, and messed with my head from santa rose to san luis obispo in ways i assume were an attempt to drive me crazy. So now i keep moving for lack of anything else. "And i think to myself, what a wonderful world."
How about you? Getting ready for something?
Safe travels my friend. I agree with much you dreamt on the website. I believe that perceived ownership is a crux issue creating much of the divisions between persons. I lived in Costa Rica and with indigenous around the world...I have seen ownership education destroy communities. Of course money is just a part of a way to teach ownership. Yes...I believe sharing is the step we are well advised to take...but even this implies ownersip...ie I share my thing with her. By releasing the idea of ownership...the sharing is intimated... there is no need to name it. I found myself in Europe...I was living close to nature in Costa Rica for 10 years.....but felt directed to Amsterdam...found Occupy organic in occurence ...springing up all over the world and so got involved....then traveled in and around Europe...revitalising after the downslip of Occupy. The togetherness of a camp dispersed. Now readying for the new year. Working on ways to encourage togetherness and ownership reduction. Would love help with a website if you have the energy and inclination. Here is an Emily Dickinson poem that inspired me, I think you may like it
To make a prairie it takes a clover and one bee,
One clover, and a bee, And revery,
The revery alone will do, If bees are few.
Interestingly the root of the word revery, which means trancelike dream state...is They Camped (from Hebrew) What is your passion?
I've always liked the idea that we borrow while being here, that true ownership is an impossible concept. I like the responsibily implied in being a caretaker, before retuning it to the future.
Regarding a website, bensdad has something with really good information, and Represent.Us has a pretty good design for the mass. The combination of these with paid hosting and a good domain name would be pretty effective.
I agree with some of the things i've seen you writing. Playing a game they've gone a long way to invent is probably not a good solution, though it might work out, thinking outside of this box could be more wonderful and in all seriousness less difficult.
Passionate in fighting against malfunction, and hot naked sex goes without saying.
If you think "the solution may all come down to waking up enough people" then why do you have no interest in talking about how it could be done? Why blow me off and insinuate that it isn't practical? If this is just about ego then i'll leave you alone. Unified power rather than divided weakness? I'd just like to understand, when you're out here preaching that this is something we need, why you keep putting me down for trying.
Think about it. You can't just say the mass should unite and they will, because they're not even listening. They're playing video games, raising families, and putting all their faith in the government to know what's best. They feel safe under this razor wing. They don't trust uncertainty/occupy and they'll watch anything with morbid facination, including their own molestation. If you're going to get through to them you absolutely have to appreciate the condition they're in.
I've seen people who took running a hotel so seriously that they threatened to shoot an employee if something was talked about. Could we really even stop the corporate abuse of our government?
What about eliminating the difference? Why do we allow private companies to control our vital resources? Why couldn't they become part of the government? What is moneyless government?
I'd play a game long ago, back when the internet started and everything was text, where you leveled up like an asymptote. The bigger you got the more expensive it became to get big. The system worked very well to make a domain that was flexible yet created a popular sweet spot that people would have similar levels of power and opportunity. Not like some games where the way to win is to just be more powerful that you crush things, but it made the battles more fun and complex because you needed strategy and wisdom to prevail, not just hulk smash.
Does anyone think that this asymoptote structure, being taxed more the richer you become, could work in our society to make it less about money?
Spreading various things are great to do but they get lost to a huge number of people, being more stuff in the super storm of information running around on the net. We're segregated like this, and it provides no beacon of organisation, lost among various propaganda, there's no way to be sure of anything. For most people that is overwhelming enough to discurage them.
If we could take the best of our information and package it with a plan into one thing designed simple and well enough for the mass to get a firm grip on, one site that the occupy movement could spread and maintain focus upon, it could actually reach all people.
And this is why occupy can't reach all people. It takes very real marketing practices. A company will use the most generic shapes for a logo with good reason, because when you make it say something that's an opinion, and if you have an opinion you're going to loose most people. People want their own opinions, even if they're the same. Occupy is seen as a protest, that the government is a bad thing, which people don't really want to believe. We have to come from the place that appeals to everyone, an extreme lack of opinion, treating the government as a good thing, not to humiliate it for being so bad but to provide a plan that creates good.
What about a site with a few fractions, lets say an "Occupy Survival Kit," with a segment for each thing. Something for the political strategy for a healthy government/environment, and something else for how people can adapt when/if society does collapse, to form communites, staple diets, tips for sleeping outside, etc, something to prepare people, even just mentally.
The presentation of whatever, absurdly effortless, starts with a name, something you hear that causes you to know what it is. Then you look and see the statement that sums it all up, then you click and read the short explaination, then you click and explore the deeper information, just like baby steps. Represent.Us did a pretty good job of this, starting with a hook, then a video, maintaining clear, well done writing all throughout the simple paths of their website.
If you bombard people with an opening page that is cluttered with eye candy it will overwhelm and discurage them. For the mass to understand something is has to be simple, and for something to catch on it needs to be consistently distributed.
If the occupy movement could spread and maintain focus upon one thing, it would actually reach all people. We have the bullet, and the gun. I think we just need to put the two together, and use it.
I don't understand why this place persists so forcefully to not be more than another news forum. I'm trying to connect with people for the sake of problem solving and if i have to occupy the occupy forum by talking to myself in this thread then so be it :p
http://www.storyofstuff.org is about Citizens United.
I'm tired of seeing people advocating that solutions need to take a long time. Maybe some things do but don't slow it down. You're talking about progress in general but we're facing a specific emergency.
That, and given the bodies in motion we just don't know when too late is. We already understand the problem that is strangulating society, veriety, culture and the planet, and we have to stop it, right now.
Otherwise we're giving them all the time they need to define and adjust their own strategy. Monopoly is a constraining dogma. The sooner we can break free is the sooner we can get back to life/progress.