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Forum Post: A culture of $$: reflections

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 11:57 a.m. EST by tomp (29)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Over the past couple of weeks, my interpretation and views on the occupy wall street movement have the run the gamut - from incredibly sympathetic and willing to march, to apathetic with a vague sense of community, to anger as to a lack of specific demands which, upon further reflection, I realize is neither appropriate nor relevant at the moment.

What I have realized about this movement over the past couple of days, however, is that rather than being a specific rally with a specific message and specific, concrete demands, which are often the case with strikes and causes to have certain bills passed, it is a nothing short of a bona-fide, amazing and incredibly spirited cultural revolution, long overdue but not too late, as hard economic times and a serious lack of jobs have lent themselves to a sympathy and solidarity over this revolution which would otherwise be impossible in times of tenuous prosperity.

I don't mean a cultural revolution in the sense of overthrowing our democratic institutions, Constitution, capitalist systems, or anything of the kind. Rather, it is a revolution which, in my opinion, emphasizes the human condition and act of helping others over the mere act of making $$, which has become the end all and has resulted in a spiraling up of money to obnoxious levels.

Think about it. Do you think your friends or family would rather you have a job which pays $500,000, but whose work is marginally important in the way of helping others, or a job that pays $45,000, and whose work is incredibly important in terms of substantively improving people's lives?

Stock brokers and corporate men alike are viewed as successful for the sheer reason that they make money. A WWE CEO, for instance, whose job includes overseeing meat-heads acting on a stage and entertaining / distracting millions of people, is considered to be a success story if she makes $10,000,000 a year after taxes and lives comfortably.

Money has become the end all, unfortunately.

"How much does it pay?" "Well, it pays well, which is good." "You might as well stay there, even if you don't like it, since they're going to give you a raise." "Whatever, just stay there for five years, make your money, and go somewhere else."

I see it in law school all the time. People with no student loans to pay feel that it is somehow important - or, rather, the "way of doing things" - to work for a big corporate firm, packed like a sardine in a library on a forgotten floor, working 70-80 hour weeks because that's how things are done. Not thinking, just doing. Feeding into the system, because the paycheck is nice and they don't want to sacrifice a week less of vacation at a smaller firm which will give them valuable, hands-on experience.

Teachers, meanwhile, are looked at with suspicion. "A teacher?" "Hm, okay, okay, what grade?" "High school?" "Okay, you sure?"

"You want to work for the government? You know, you're used to a certain lifestyle..."

And that's the problem. Luxurious / comfortable / complacent is valued over being aggressive / active / standing for causes. Why bother marching when you can get a drink? Why work for an non-governmental organization which helps low-income victims of human rights when you can work in a nice office with AC and go on vacations four weeks out of the year?

It's a culture which feeds into itself, and makes for nice, complacent individuals apathetic to the times, who upon reading about the grave injustices of greedy-infested men merely roll their eyes and consider it an inevitable part of life. "All politicians suck." "What can you do." "Just live life."

Such a revolution will take time. But your planting the seeds, and I like that.

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7 Comments


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[-] 1 points by ArtistMisty (3) 13 years ago

Government didn't take homes away from hard working people. Government didn't cut a 40 hour work week to 38 hours to advoid overtime payments. Government Feeds your homeless neighbors and provides housing because the people have shown no responsibility of caring for those in need in the past. Government programs were put in place to begin with because we weren't helping each other out to begin with. How many times do we look around ourselves and see someone in need and do nothing? Families have relatives with means to help their own Family structure and don't. As for CEO's Their job is to cut monatary corners to gain profits for their company therefore increasing their monatary value while lowering monatay value of their workers. How do I know this? I have worked for huge corporations in my past. I know how they work. I have been hired to work a full 40 hour week but never got 40 hours. I have been docked 15 minutes of my work time by being forced out of the building at closing 15 minutes ahead of my scheduled work hours. I have been denied unemployment benefits for asking a company for help in transfering me to a safer location, being denied the transfer and having to leave for my own safety. I have seen well estabished Corporations sell their company to foreigners and wipe out their obligations and responsiblities to their workers of 30 + years. I have seen corporations fire older experienced workers to replace them with younger cheaper workers to save on retirement packages and lower starting wages. Yet! to even the playing field I have also worked for small family owned businesses and recieved less benefits but better treatment in the work force. I think what the average american worker is truly saying is::: Let me work at wages that support a comfortable lifestyle and you (the corporation) may have the rest of the profits to live your wealthy lifestyle. I don't begrudge the top 1% of their wealth, I just want my "FAIR" share that I worked for. THAT is what THIS movement it truly about. It became a "CLASS WARFARE" when Capitalism became so greedy that the workers who sweat and labored to make the businesses successful felt the noose around their necks everytime another excuse was made to deny them wages to exist comfortably. The poor did NOT create this financial crisis, neither did the disabled or illeagal immigrants. GREED created the crisis we are in. The wealthy wanted more and more and to give back less and less. Those are facts many of us live with on a daily basis. What "We The People" really want is to be able to exist without worrying we can meet our daily needs.

[-] 1 points by ArtistMisty (3) 13 years ago

Government didn't take homes away from hard working people. Government didn't cut a 40 hour work week to 38 hours to advoid overtime payments. Government Feeds your homeless neighbors and provides housing because the people have shown no responsibility of caring for those in need in the past. Government programs were put in place to begin with because we weren't helping each other out to begin with. How many times do we look around ourselves and see someone in need and do nothing? Families have relatives with means to help their own Family structure and don't. As for CEO's Their job is to cut monatary corners to gain profits for their company therefore increasing their monatary value while lowering monatay value of their workers. How do I know this? I have worked for huge corporations in my past. I know how they work. I have been hired to work a full 40 hour week but never got 40 hours. I have been docked 15 minutes of my work time by being forced out of the building at closing 15 minutes ahead of my scheduled work hours. I have been denied unemployment benefits for asking a company for help in transfering me to a safer location, being denied the transfer and having to leave for my own safety. I have seen well estabished Corporations sell their company to foreigners and wipe out their obligations and responsiblities to their workers of 30 + years. I have seen corporations fire older experienced workers to replace them with younger cheaper workers to save on retirement packages and lower starting wages. Yet! to even the playing field I have also worked for small family owned businesses and recieved less benefits but better treatment in the work force. I think what the average american worker is truly saying is::: Let me work at wages that support a comfortable lifestyle and you (the corporation) may have the rest of the profits to live your wealthy lifestyle. I don't begrudge the top 1% of their wealth, I just want my "FAIR" share that I worked for. THAT is what THIS movement it truly about. It became a "CLASS WARFARE" when Capitalism became so greedy that the workers who sweat and labored to make the businesses successful felt the noose around their necks everytime another excuse was made to deny them wages to exist comfortably. The poor did NOT create this financial crisis, neither did the disabled or illeagal immigrants. GREED created the crisis we are in. The wealthy wanted more and more and to give back less and less. Those are facts many of us live with on a daily basis. What "We The People" really want is to be able to exist without worrying we can meet our daily needs.

[-] 1 points by margaritac (45) 13 years ago

What you clearly don't understand is that the two are not mutually exclusive. You assume that by making a big salary that must mean you do nothing for your "fellow man". What about the CEO that founded a company from something he started with 1 guy in his garage, keeps it on track and employs thousands and then donates a large portion of their money to foundations/charities? This is simply class warfare and it must stop.

The conversation must be around the duties that we have to each other as human beings. If you see a hungry person, feed them. Don't ask the government to - YOU FEED THEM. If a neighbor falls on hard times, help them. If you have a company, hire someone. It's not about what we have, it's about what we do. And the problem with this movement is that it is coming across as a bunch of whiny entitled kids who are jealous of people who have worked hard to get where they are, all the while being unwilling to do exactly the work required to get them in a better lot.

If you focused on what's wrong with this country - corrupt government, nanny state ideas where people expect the government to fix their issues, and lack of personal responsibility to other citizens of this country and this world - then we would get somewhere.

Until then, your revolution is falling on deaf, annoyed ears.

[-] 1 points by ArtistMisty (3) 13 years ago

Government didn't take homes away from hard working people. Government didn't cut a 40 hour work week to 38 hours to advoid overtime payments. Government Feeds your homeless neighbors and provides housing because the people have shown no responsibility of caring for those in need in the past. Government programs were put in place to begin with because we weren't helping each other out to begin with. How many times do we look around ourselves and see someone in need and do nothing? Families have relatives with means to help their own Family structure and don't. As for CEO's Their job is to cut monatary corners to gain profits for their company therefore increasing their monatary value while lowering monatay value of their workers. How do I know this? I have worked for huge corporations in my past. I know how they work. I have been hired to work a full 40 hour week but never got 40 hours. I have been docked 15 minutes of my work time by being forced out of the building at closing 15 minutes ahead of my scheduled work hours. I have been denied unemployment benefits for asking a company for help in transfering me to a safer location, being denied the transfer and having to leave for my own safety. I have seen well estabished Corporations sell their company to foreigners and wipe out their obligations and responsiblities to their workers of 30 + years. I have seen corporations fire older experienced workers to replace them with younger cheaper workers to save on retirement packages and lower starting wages. Yet! to even the playing field I have also worked for small family owned businesses and recieved less benefits but better treatment in the work force. I think what the average american worker is truly saying is::: Let me work at wages that support a comfortable lifestyle and you (the corporation) may have the rest of the profits to live your wealthy lifestyle. I don't begrudge the top 1% of their wealth, I just want my "FAIR" share that I worked for. THAT is what THIS movement it truly about. It became a "CLASS WARFARE" when Capitalism became so greedy that the workers who sweat and labored to make the businesses successful felt the noose around their necks everytime another excuse was made to deny them wages to exist comfortably. The poor did NOT create this financial crisis, neither did the disabled or illeagal immigrants. GREED created the crisis we are in. The wealthy wanted more and more and to give back less and less. Those are facts many of us live with on a daily basis. What "We The People" really want is to be able to exist without worrying we can meet our daily needs.

[-] 1 points by margaritac (45) 13 years ago

Actually, government DID take those homes. It is Freddy and Fannie that caused ALL of this. ALL OF IT. And if they were hard working people, why aren't they paying their mortgages like the rest of us? Just saying.

You're right, lots of folks don't help others and that's morally wrong. That is our moral obligation to help. Where you all seem to be confused is that this is not our LEGAL obligation, You cannot mandate morality.

Yes, they fire older workers to hire younger cheaper workers. And? If that's what's best for the organization, why is that a problem? If the "older" worker wants to compete, they can take less pay in their current job or find another. The company does NOT have a LEGAL obligation to keep them. Or anyone for that matter.

You made the choice to work with a smaller company because they treat you well. Excellent. That is what's great about America - CHOICE. If you don't like where you work, work somewhere else. If there are no jobs in your line of work, train to do something else. Don't sit here and wait for the government to bail YOU out. If you don't like Bank of America, don't work there and put your money elsewhere. If you don't like Big Pharma, don't use their medicines and chose instead to use generics.

And again, you are not OWED unemployment! My God! You CHOSE to leave because you did not like your environment. Why is that the company's fault? They have no legal obligation to transfer you. You were hired to do a job. If you chose not to do that job, they owe you nothing but a handshake. If you don't like it, simply don't work there!

The issue with your movement is the lack of personal responsibility. It is non-existent. As demonstrated here.

Greed did not create the crisis. Corruption did. And ignorance of the facts.

You speak most loudly with your actions. Put your money where your mouth is.

[-] 1 points by tomp (29) 13 years ago

Q1. "You cannot mandate morality" A1. Of course you can. Look at some of the international law covenants the U.S. is a party to, as well as international covenants generally (ICCPR, ICESCR, CRC). The notion that everyone is on their own and has to fend for themselves is largely a U.S. doctrine which has been, and will continue to be, conditioned and qualified.

Also, what about the Wagner Act of 1933, which stipulates that corporations and companies must bargain with collective bargaining reps in good-faith? Isn't that legalizing morality?

Q2. Regarding your comments on older workers.
A2. Ever hear of the ADEA (Age discrimination in employment act)?

Q3. Regarding choices? A3. People lack meaningful choices when only a few big banks exist for people to put their money in.

[-] 1 points by kingearl (141) 13 years ago

Obamas' 2012 Re-election Finance Director is the son of BANK OF AMERICAS former CEO Charles K. Gifford.... the guy who got us in this mess!!! Keeping it all in the Family