Forum Post: OWS to SPEND 29k of Donated money to send 20 People to Egypt
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 10, 2011, 11:22 p.m. EST by Rebarton
(64)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Let me start out by saying I am a huge proponent of this movement. However, tonight I read that you are utilizing 29,000.00 of money donated by the 99% to go to Egypt to monitor their elections ? I get the reason why there is solidarity with Egypt, but a letter reflecting your support should suffice in a movement that is younger than 60 days old.
When the people, the 99%, provided their hard earned money ( many hardly have the money to donate) I do not believe they thought their money was going to be spent this way. I know I didnt.
I am not sure what is occuring at OWS NY, but I think you are running the risk of alienating the people who are supporting you. I know I a bit taken aback by this news.
I get the fact that you want to assist, but I can assure you, you will lose a great deal of support if you continue down this path.
This movement is in it's infancy. There is an enormous amount of work that needs to be done within the NYC and the US to win the hearts and minds of the 99%. Yes many people support you for a variety of reasons, however, you do not have a mandate. People are hoping OWS makes a difference in their day to day lives. That is why they donate. To ensure you have food, stay warm, obtain shelter, so that you OWS lives on to fight for their rights within the US. Not to make some global political message. We do not need our donated money being spent this way. We Already see our taxes being used for global purposes when millions in the US live in poverty.
Please I ask you to not squander the current financial and morale support you are garnering from the 99%. We donate that money to you to assist with OUR day to day issues, not to make a statement for history to remember, but to make a difference for main street.
Also, about archiving records etc. I am not sure if some of the successes you are having lately is causing delusions of grandeur. The 99% do not care if OWS makes history, they only care if you make a difference. You really need to step back and not Lose focus on core reasons why OWS was established.
Again, I am a huge supporter, just a bit concerned.
Here is the link: http://www.nycga.net/category/assemblies/minutes-ga/
Rebarton Orlando, Fl
Typed on Iphone. Excuse typos.
The change that OWS seeks is global, and the revolution in Egypt was the inspiration for OWS so it is understandable they want to keep an eye on how that all turns out.
People donating do not have the right to tell the movement how to use the donations, unless they want to earmark it for a particular group, ie. to be used specifically for the Media Group (who could buy more laptops), or the Press Relations group who could buy tv airtime for advertising, or the Kitchen who could buy holiday meal supplies, or the Comfort Station who could buy vitamins and colds, anti flu, or other supplies, or the Library who could subscribe to some news magazines or newspapers or get newly released books for people to read, etc. etc.
However, it is understandable that people think the movement should focus donations on needs right here, and that their oversight of the elections in Egypt is not needed or something related to OWS specifically.
There is a Loya Jirga in Afghanistan coming up which the Afghan Taliban has threatened to disrupt to the point that they sent Night Letters to civilians telling them if they support it or go there, they will face death. That would not be any of OWS business to go and monitor that, yet those people on both sides are seeking changes to how they live. The Taliban want an Islamic caliphate in power, Karzai's regime is a neo-western democracy regime set up by the US, who is occupying their country.
So where do you draw the line on what global countries and movements you support, ones that mirror the US?
If we wanted to do something about bringing Democracy to a people who need it, you need to get rid of Islam Abdug‘aniyevich Karimov, President of Uzbekistan who is known to kill people by boiling them in water, so there is no opposition to his rule that can gain a foothold. He is a brutal, sadistic dictator. If OWS wants to support bringing democracy to the world, you may have to join the mujahideen to take down dictatorial tyrants and then broker a deal with them on implementing new transitional governments, though they only want Shariah compliant governments, which are not based on secular law, but religious law.
Do not get me wrong, I understand the global aspect of this movement, but I do not agree with the timing. Nor do I agree with utilizing donations earmarked for Occupy Wall Street to be utilized on the global aspect of this movement.
While it is true once a donation has been provided to OWS, the donor cannot control how that money is spent. However, donors do have a right to know how you spent their money, and can make a decision to NO LONGER DONATE based upon this information. By utilizing the money in this way you are putting the entire movement AT RISK. Both Public Perception and especially Donors in my opinion are not going to be happy about this. Simply put, without donors, the movement cannot exist.
I would assume the majority of donors to OWS are from the 99%. These people are giving money, goods and services to your organization, that during these economic times is difficult to come by. The reason they give is because they are hoping you can make a difference in their lives. They are hoping you represent them.
I believe their needs to be a great deal of sensitivity and discretion in the use of these donations, out of respect for the people that work so hard to make a living and who believe, who hope you will make a difference.
In reading the GA posts, I am not feeling that sensitivity. In fact last night GA posts reflected that there was more people concerned with spending 600+ dollars for toys for tots then in spending 29,000 to monitor votes in Egypt. I see the movement worrying more about how that they need to archive the movement, for historical purposes, than issues being raised at how to become more effective at handling core issues of the movement.
To be honest, you have no mandate from the people. "The whole world is watching" but is not participating at this point, because they are cautious and you are a new movement. Yes there are pockets of protests going on in communities , but to be honest you are failing to reach the masses of the 99% because they your message is rapidly becoming diluted and this movement is less than 60 days old.
I do believe OWS has the best intentions in mind, but I think living, breathing, and sleeping Liberty Sq, may be effecting those making decisions. Last night for instance, there was more discussion and objections on utilizing approximately 600 dollars for Toys For Tots, than to utilize 29,000 to monitor elections in Egypt. Toys for Tots is a great program by the US Marine Corp that provided toys for poor children. Regardless of the material aspects of the holidays, a little joy in the kids of the 99% should not have been such an issue. In fact, had you given the 29,000.00 to Toys for Tots, I would not be as concerned.
As mentioned previously I believe sensitivity needs to be involved when spending donors money. I also believe that the decision to spend 29K to fly 20 people to Egypt to monitor elections, will cause a number of people to no longer support OWS. As stated in previous postings, the 99% is already tired of our government spending tax payer dollars outside the US, especially when we have so many impoverished people living in our own country. The 99% need solutions for Main Street, not Cairo. While donors cannot tell OWS how to spend donations, we can stop donating and supporting this cause.
Right now this movement is in it’s infancy. However this movement will cease to exist if people no longer support you. I am grateful that other occupy groups in this country are concentrating on the core issues. However, since OWS NYC is one of the main groups the media covers, you are putting them at risk as well, by Occupying Egypt.
I remain a supporter of the OWS, but I will not provide or assist in the solicitation of further donations until I see the movement more focused on American issues. I am extremely concerned with what is to become of OWS, if anything, at this point. Idealism and Delusions of Grandeur are not something I want to spend my hard earned money on.
Amen to that,
I agree donors have a right to know what is going on financially. Funds should be separated and there should be line items and accountability of income and expenditures by the committees.
Global Revolution expenses should come out of Global Revolution funds which should be specified by the donors or it should be asked if there is a preference where the funds are allocated to.
Having separate budgets for Global Revolution and OWS Wall Street, where funds donated for use locally, by and for the Wall Street region and global funds are used for trips for things like monitoring the Egyptian elections, seems to be a reasonable thing to ask and a smart financial decision.
I agree with you the trip to Egypt should be something funded out of a Global Revolution funds/budget not the the local OWS budget. I too can think of other needs that I think the funds could have been allocated to at this particular time.
OWS wants to show that it is an organization that represents all the people and be all inclusive. There are organizations who provide toys for the kids during the holidays, but it is something that was brought up to be voted on. If the movement limits the scope of what it can do, it is self limiting.
The priorities right now should be that everyone has appropriate winter clothing, shelter and food and access to medical care when needed.
All OWS members should get some health plan coverage. There could be negotiations with an HMO type monthly payment with one or more MD's who would agree to treat any OWS members, or MD's who will agree to treat at a reduced fee. This is important.
Accurate media representation and dissemination is crucial to counteract propaganda and lack of meaningful news coverage. Funds should be allocated for this.
The Finance Committee will have to step up to the plate so that people feel comfortable in giving and can trust that their donations are used in ways that they intended. I agree that Global Revolution costs/expenditures should come out of a Global Revolution budget/fund.
The minute they start chanting and drumming on the plane its all over. 29K down the drain as the plane pulls back to the gate. These donations were made to help this movement exist, here in the US. I highly doubt anyone who donated would have agreed knowing thier hard earned money was going overseas, like thier jobs. That 29k would be far better spent feeding hungry kids here in the USA. Let's fix whats wrong in this country first. Shame on you OWS.
I donated over 200 dollars and am quite content that they are supporting democracy around the globe. Shame on you for opposing democracy. This was decided upon at the general assembly and you were too god damn lazy to actually attend and voice your opposition. Obviously, your idea of democracy is just sitting at the sidelines hurling insults and for that, you are a disgrace to your country.
Shame one me ? Shame on you for you assuming. You know nothing of my involvememt or my attendance at OWS functions or my involvent with other organizations. The 99% of Americans, those that you claim to represent, care mostly about straightening out problems in our country first then about Global issues. We have a government that already provides trillions of dollars to other countries while millions are in live in poverty within this country. Families and children living out of their cars, on the streets. So do not play all high and mighty with me. You know nothing about me.
I am simply voicing my concerns. Asking questions, expressing thoughts are all rights that are provided to me under the constitution. It is odd to me how when people express views that may be contrary to their beliefs they get all defensive. Listen I believe in the 99%. I am just opposed to the trip. Had I been able to make it the GA, my block would still be up.
As far as your donation of 200.00. You just paid for 10 room nights in Hostel in Egypt. Congrats.
Yes, shame on you for opposing democracy, both domestic and abroad, and prejudging those that take the time to support and participate in both.
Pot kettle black buddy
A little hard to follow the OWS GAs since they stopped steaming them. They prefer to keep things 'a little smaller' at the meetings where they decide everything.
It isn't hard because all you need to do is take some personal responsibility, get your lazy ass off the computer, and bring the necessary video equipment to record it your damn self. But I'm sure you've come up with dozens of excuses not to do that, none of them actually citing how lazy you are.
You know, the "founders" really made a mistake with the whole 'occupy' theme for the "revolution."
You keep saying "get off your couch and go occupy." Well you know what? Most people have families, or jobs, or school... or they're actually looking for a job... and can't really move into a temporary ghetto for a couple of months.
Yeah, let's start a worldwide movement based on an activity that the vast, overwhelming majority of people cannot possibly participate in.
Real bright.
If you're too busy, or too god damn lazy, then what the hell do you keep bitching about?? Obviously, it's not important enough to attend so shut your lazy ignorant face.
LOL. I like you T. You're a funny guy.
Lazy, or potentially a full-time student and/or full-time worker trying to find balance between surviving in this environment and supporting this cause. You are no one to judge.
So now you speak on behalf of MisterG and both support this movement and his insults towards the movement posted all over the forums??
I have never insulted OWS. I am critical of aspects of it, and support other aspects. Take your meds and shut your cake hole like a good boy.
I haven't read anything else of his, but I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone fostering a more progressive society, whether or not they support this movement. Someone having doubts about OWS is a positive thing, as many progressive movements have been corrupted by reactionaries in the past. Whether he does his protesting here or on the streets doesn't matter to me, as long as we support the same cause which is, in case we have forgotten:
-Tax the rich. -Get money out of politics. -Give control of the banks to government, not the other way around.
Please note that in the GA minutes someone tried to block because they felt there was not enough present to represent a GA. The facilitators basically told them to f off, but in nicer terminology.
Funny how you mention a block, but do not have the foggiest what the blocker's explanation for blocking was. Almost like you're just bringing it up for the explicit purpose of spreading hate. Oh wait... I read your second sentence and can confirm that hate is your only motive. Thanks for making that clear
I read the minutes, I understood what the intention was. Did you read the minutes?
By all means, this is not a forum where you are not permitted to post up either exact quotes or links as citation to support what you say. I'm sure that would be more welcome than coming up with lewd ways of paraphrasing what was said.
http://www.nycga.net/2011/11/10/nycga-minutes-11102011/ start at 55.1.2.6
The next block is at
55.1.3.5.1. Block: I don’t believe there are enough people here to form a GA, but that’s just my opinion.
They responded...
F: PoP: Blocks must relate to the proposal. There is also no stipulation as to the number of people that constitutes a GA
And he left...
That was the point you were trying to make??
He said absolutely nothing to object to it otherwise and even left..
Also, I'm actually encouraging the people who are simply throwing tomatoes at the decision after it was passed to actually attend the GA to state their objections instead of sitting on their computers hurling insults from afar at those people that take the time to attend.
No wonder you didn't actually post why he blocked it.
Bite my conservative ass you low life puke!
No thank you. I'd rather have nothing to do with the ass of an antiamerican disgrace that hates america and thinks my forefathers founded this country on hate rather than democracy.
You are a sick ass. This country was founded on a principal of get the fuck away from the Tyrants. Wake up you dipshit stupid fucking moron.you fucking pushed my button you asshole ass wipe. Bite a piece of fermented shit. Satisfied?
I'm sure if the forefathers agreed with you, we'd have a profanity-laced document that nobody would have fought for and would probably either remain a colony or real freedom fighters (definitely not like you) would have risen up to the call.
You are a dipshit. You love tyranny! Let your government suck the life out of you . I will respond no more to you. You are a retard. I am a drunk. Good night, butt sucker!
I have not found a link to support this, but if true, would be hesitant to send money, and would feel that this act was one where the 1% controlling the funds, made a decision that likely is not supported by the 99% of donors or the 99% in general.
Check out twitter @libertysqga this is OWS official Ga postings from tonight.
I put up the general assembly's official tweets of tonight's GA meeting in this thread, shows how the consensus progressed. One block.
Still don't see it, but if true, I would suspect that donors would consider Occupy WallStreet different from Occupy Egyptian Voting Oversight, and find it ridiculous IF TRUE
Its true. Go to twitter @ libertysqga and read through the Posts this evening. Its there. 29k
a few posts below this one.
Think I see it now - my rec is to tell them to go where the sun don't shine, use their own money (or try to create a donation fund specifically for that purpose, where the donor knows that is the goal), and likely resign from whatever position they have.
Your spending 5% of total donations on something that will not make a difference in INTERNATIONAL elections, while NOTHING has been done to cause WallStreet (or DC) to be accountable for theft of the public for TRILLIONS of dollars.
Money should support primarily those individuals actively who occupy, and any of the ancillary costs involved in the movement.
http://occupywallst.org/donate/
General Assemblies And Occupations
Money donated to these funds is generally used to support the needs of occupiers as well as the administrative expenses of their general assemblies.
Liberty Square, NYC General Fund Occupy DC Occupy Portland, Maine (Recently Added) Occupy Edmonton (Recently Added) Occupy Buffalo (Recently Added) Occupy New Haven (Recently Added) Occupy Los Angeles Occupy Baltimore Occupy Oakland Occupy Atlanta Occupy Chicago Occupy Boston Occupy Philly Occupy Wall Street Movement Groups
These funds support activist collectives doing support work for the movement.
The Occumentary (Recently Added) OccupyWallSt.org Fund OWSJ Print Newspaper Fund Global Revolution Livestream
" would be hesitant to send money, and would feel that this act was one where the 1% controlling the funds"
They decided to do this at the general assembly. Opposing it from the sidelines is worthless if you were too god damn lazy to attend the general assembly. And, yes, I am a donor and will continue to be because unlike anti-American pro-corporate disgraces (perhaps you), I actually support democracy.
peace brother
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WTF
I hope is not true. otherwise this movement have show itself a corrupt one.Those who made that decision should explain themselves.
Instead of donating money to the movement, donate it to the people that need it inside the movement. Corruption should never be tolerated.
Here is the link: http://www.nycga.net/category/assemblies/minutes-ga/
Unreal.. they couldn't buy a pair of shoes for one guy who is on the march to DC.. but they are doing this. Take care of our own first!
Yes or asking for food, or pizza, etc. Like I said once this is on the MSM, it's going to kill donations.
Is that true?
They probably figure that they need to do the Job they know the American and Egyptian Government won't do.
I think we have enough of our own issues in US and this movement is way to new to be taking on issues abroad. We have barely touched the surface locally. Lets win one war before taking on another.
It's a global movement. There is no "abroad", like Batman, OWS "has no jurisdiction".
The people who donate to them I am sure do not see it that way. I know I do not want my donations going overseas. OWS is constantly soliciting for items they need to sustain themselves and then to spend money like this is frivolous. Again, I am a supporter but I do not support them spending money like this. This type of spending could prevent people from wanting to support them Financially in the future. Shame because many people were hopeful and now OWS is doing what our gov does. Uses our $ to send overseas.
We can't bitch about corporations sending jobs and money overseas if we do it. We can't bitch about Wells Fargo if we put our money in it. we can't bitch about violence if we are confrontational. We can't whine about our rights if we take rights away from others. Im logging for the night.
Yes seems a lot of mistakes are being made. Easy for me to say I know. However, i read through the GA posts tonight and found that there was barely any resistance to spending this 29k but spending ~500 dollars for toys for tots got more resistance.
Global? Awful full of yourself aren't you?
Global? Awful ignorant of what's going on in the world aren't you? Try getting your news from practically any source other than Faux Noos and/or Glenn Beck. Or better still go to Occupytogether.org and look at their map:
Sydney, London, Paris, Berlin, Johannesberg, Bejing, Tokyo, Delhi, Moscow, Cairo, Tehran, Istanbul, Rio, Geneva, Munich, Antwerp, Rome, Madrid, Athens, McMurdo Station Antartica
Need I go on? They all have occupy camps. I'd say that counts as "Global"
A little hot under the collar dont you think. You can think whatever you want. It is still not gonna change fact that every piece of food, every drink, the tents, the money, everything is being provided by donors. Again I state that while once you have the money donors cant tell you what to do with it. They can stop donating. I noticed there is not a news article posted about this on the front page or a disclaimer on the donations page that states you are using the funds for international causes. Either way people do not like being deceived. So do me a favor and Occupy some restraint when you are speaking to people who have donated money and have supported your cause. We do not have to agree on everything.
Thanks for the insult.
just returning the favor, and pointing out the facts that any noncomatose adult has access to, don't bother defending your willfully blinkered, Faux Noos Kool-aid drinking, ignorance.
More nice names. See,you OWS people really are nice and willing to hear anyone. I didn't insult you,I asked,"Awful full of yourself aren't you?". If you took that as an insult I don't know what to tell you. You're right about everything and everyone else is wrong,typical OWS attitude.
I'm not right about everything. I'm just right about the facts. And don't claim the moral high ground when you have none. A (thinly) veiled insult is still an insult.
The Money they are spending was not donated to OccupyTogether, but to OWS. OWSNYC is local. While admit occupy is a global movement. Each group is autonomous. The insults you both throw does no good. i simply pointing out the fact that spending donations like this is not gonna do anything to get the backing or support by American 99%ers. You can be arrogant all you want, but remember without support of donors you have no movement.
Lol yep you are always right You are OWS so you must always be right,and 98% of the rest of us are wrong. Yes that's right,only OWS has the moral high ground because they are always right.That's right,it's an insult,you are always right. You really are full of yourself and could care less what most of America thinks because you know what is right for us to think. SAD
Nice try. But unlike rebarton, I didn't claim to know more than others, or to be in sole possession of truth. I only claimed to know the facts, and it is a fact that OWS is a global movement. Deal with it.
Lol,you need to look around you and see the people you're aligned with. I think you'll find it's not the best of associations.
anyone who is going to Egypt care to comment on this? Would there be more reasons for going that didn't come across clearly that we missed?
Can you say 'embezzlement'? Have you noticed that the OWS does not appear to have raised anymore financial donations in the last month? They got $500k right away and now suddenly no more? Pay attention people, you are being swindled.
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"Can you say 'embezzlement'?"
Can you say 'It was decided upon at the general assembly and you're just lazy douche that hates democracy and is a disgrace to your country'??
Can't the CIA provide funding for their own operatives?
BWA hahaha!
Supporting democracy by taking a field trip to a country that has nothing to do with what is going on here in the USA, is frivolous at best. I support the USA, the people and those in need. This country needs fixing first before venturing out to countries that do not operate the way we do. Big deal you donated 200 bucks.. you want a medal? Try doing some volunteer work in a shelter for homeless families. Ask them what 29k would mean to them. Go to a children's hospital and see how many kids have no family to bring a gift to them during the holidays. See how many toys could be bought with that 29K. Or how about compensating the folks who's properties have been damaged by this movement namely Oakland. Sitting around the park, voting on whether to spend 29k to go on a trip to Egypt or helping your fellow Americans. Easy answer for many. Charity begins at home.
This kind of thing makes me think, wow, they really are just kids. I'm not sure it necessarily would have occurred to them that this is inappropriate. Also, to have something like this go through a GA that as far as I can tell was not livestreamed is also upsetting. NYC is the focal point and they continue to make it a very low priority to livestream (or even later post videos). Videos are clearly being made.
Bad call all around.
Were you not welcome to attend the GA?? I'm pretty sure you were but you'd rather stay at home and hurl insults at democracy afterwards, and for that you are a disgrace to America.
The tone of your comment (and I see you posted to a few of us on this thread, in basically the same vein) is very off-putting. I would hope you support that we should feel free to voice our honest opinions without being harangued for it.
I completely support you sharing "honest opinions" and I support the protesters doing the same "without being harangued for it".
Either that or both you and the protesters that actually took the time to attend the GA should both be able to share "honest opinions" but not have any right to do so "without being harangued for it".
It's a 2-way street.
I didn't "harangue" in my opinion of their decision; you on the other hand in yr post to me and several others call us a disgrace (and maybe I read somewhere "get your lazy ass off the sofa"). That is, to me, intimidating language, not constructive sharing of opinions.
If you think that actually attending the GA and participating rather than sitting on your computer complaining afterwards isn't constructive, then that's your problem.
Maybe they should take this money and sponsor a Presidential Debate, actually act like a movement.
you are not quite correct -
et me start out by saying I am a huge proponent of this movement. However, tonight I read that you are utilizing 29,000.00 of money donated by the 99% to go to Mars to monitor their elections. I wealy wealy did!
And I dont wear a huge supporter. I'm voting for Orson Welles
I see no news articles expounding this.
Thats because it has not really been released yet. It was just approved by GA last evening. You can go to @libertysqga on twitter to read the feed from last night.
thank you
Who，when, and show me the tickets.
I believe there are twenty people from various occupy groups. However all are being funded by NYCGA from donations given to occupy "wall street" from the 99% who have enough issues occupying their own homes.
http://www.dylanratigan.com/2011/11/11/occupy-wall-street-goes-international-heading-to-the-egyptian-elections/
Here you go moron, read it and weep.
@OP can you cite source?
Check out @libertysqga tonights twitter posts.
saw them--these are the official tweets of the GA. remember to read from the bottom up. OWS is going to spend $29,000 to go to Egypt.
Yes tonights nyc ga.
Im a bit dumbfounded too. The little leadership you have, on a field trip? stay strong man.
agreed.. they are taking that money and spending it in a foriegn country? they should monitor american elections. guess this is over
That's a great point! That's exactly the focus of OWS, that the elections are bought. And even though the 1% know that their candidates will win (no one else can afford to run), they still engage in racist, discriminatory and illegal tactics to keep the 99% from voting. Look at Florida during the Gore/Bush election. Yes, monitor the elections at home!
And I agree with others, I don't have a lot of money, I lost a job due to age discrimination, and I won't be able to donate if the money's being spent on something I see as useless (not the communication with Egyptian activists, but sending 20 people to Egypt when OWS is in danger of being ousted from some communities because it hasn't been able to control violence in the camps.
OWS is having extremely dangerous confrontations with the community and the police in a number of cities, and money needs to be spent on preventing violence, creating safe spaces, and educating those who, even if well intentioned, promote illegal actions that prevent the greater masses who make up the 99% from participating. The recent deaths in the camps have given authorities just the excuse they were looking for to close the Occupy sites. It's not the fault of OWS that it's attracting dangerous people, but something needs to be done. There can't continue to be overdoses, a suicide, rapes, a shooting in Oakland, which refuses to repudiate violence, TB, and more. I'm a passionate supporter of OWS, but I'm upset at the failure to keep out very disturbed and dangerous people.
I think that using a large amount of money for a trip that I'm sure wasn't the intention of many donors and leaving the country when OWS is under considerable attack will cause many to distrust the de facto OWS leadership, thus hurtingthe movement. I think the trip is a possibly well intended but huge mistake, and if it's possible to vote against it via these comment sections, I would like to make a block.
Thanks very much.
Ok I tried to sleep and this is just not cool. really hoping Liberty Park's GA has some justification.
still no response from NY, the people who introduced this or will be going?
Yes and curiously enough, no major news release on this.
http://www.nycga.net/2011/11/09/draft-proposal-for-thursday-1110-general-assembly-movement-building/
Need evidence to this post. I went to the link provided above (minutes-ga) and could not locate on what day and who voted for this and when. Remember all meetings are live on live-stream and has multiple video recordings.
SHOW US THE EVIDENCE !! This is serious matter and link to no-where is not enough in this case.
This trip to Egypt proposal is pointless. Why are we going to let good money get wasted, when we're at a juncture of the movement where we can nurture it while it has been weakened, or weaken it even further by whittling away resources and people presence in NYC. Preserve the movement here in the states, so that we can grow and become a powerful element of US society, and then participate in foreign affairs. Let Egypt know that we fully support their solidarity, and that we are not in anyway going to abandon them in the long run.
Bottom line : How does OWS accomplish what said in this video and being played on television in the US by going to Egypt ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVQPo62x3UI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Why don't we just trust the US Gov. to monitor and regulate Egyptian Elections, they have a great track record so far.
How is anyone at OWS qualified to monitor an election?
I believe your question is rhetorical. My limited understanding of what they will be doing is providing a cover or distraction, rather than monitor. From what I am hearing they will not be allowed near the voting/polling locations. This is more of a statement of solidarity with the Egyptians. My argument with this is statements of solidarity come in many forms. Most do not cost 29K A movement this you, marketed in the US as a movement of the 99% is a bit deceiving.
If money is being spent from donations provided to OWS from the 99% (if that is where the bulk of the funding comes from), than I would say many of them would be upset to see their donations being used for such purposes. I support OWS message of the 99%, but do not support international activities when were lead to believe this movement was about issues within our own country. Maybe I am a bit naive or maybe I misinformed, or both. I do know at this point, I am concerned and a bit disenfranchised by the decision to go on this trip. So I too now wonder who their donors maybe. Seems like this movement is being hijacked. I am unclear if the whole populist 99% message maybe a cover for something more devious. I hope not.
In the meantime, what baffles my mind is with all this money, how come they still are asking people to donate shoes, food, clothes, computers, supplies, etc. If they can spend 29K where there is no real benefit ( solidarity can come in other forms) why are they not looking for a shelter ( a large store front, office space, etc) where they can camp, stay warm, and conduct business.
The big story that is being missed is, if the 99% of Americans knew how they were spending their donations, would they continue to donate ? It appears that OWS, less than 60 days into this movement, does not appear to be worried about public sentiment, so they must be getting donations from elsewhere. So the question is fromwho and is this movement what it appears to be ?
Well I donate a little more than half of my monthly disposable income to OWS, and I live in Denmark. I'd still do it again.... Well done OWS get connected globally... We need to see through this false dichotomy of self/other...and it is possible without competition between one country and another under the direction of the 1%
You are fortunate you have a disposable income. Good luck to ya brother !!
that really really makes this look bad.. they could use that money to help get the message out instead. by creating a secure website for voting and polling.. and asking the real questions
seriously you could use that money to feed hungry families this thanksgiving...and who appointed you the worlds official vote counter? The more this movement starts thinking its some cure all for every problem that exists, the less support it gets and the less strength it has.
If this movement were to get real about one thing - getting big money out of US politics - then it can have an impact. But this idea that OWS is gonna start a world revolution and solve all the problems that have existed since man left the cave is ridiculous.
An Egyptian boondoggle? Why? (+1 to the OP)
http://www.nycga.net/2011/11/09/draft-proposal-for-thursday-1110-general-assembly-movement-building/
It's true:
http://www.dylanratigan.com/2011/11/11/occupy-wall-street-goes-international-heading-to-the-egyptian-elections/
How much to send the rest?
I'd donate for that.
The cost would be cheaper if the tickets were all one-way.
It's a small amount of money, just a small group going. That $29,000 will barely cover the cost of the flight. The money might not have been donated for a trip, but hey, the group decided it could be justified somehow. They have good intentions. Just the first little taste of what you can do and where you can go with other people's money. No one wakes up one morning totally corrupt, it starts with little steps. You'll want to upgrade to first class on other people's money next time. That's a long uncomfortable flight in coach. People doing important work deserve some perks, right? Reawakens the cynic in me, we're stepping onto a road paved with good intentions.
They also spent $8000 to a "stranger" that apparently camped on a their new domain name......... Hmmmm
Those 20 are going to be in for a rude awakening. I'm sure the Muslim Brotherhood will respect their authority.
Another thing, don't they understand that the media is going to pick this up and make a huge deal about it, saying that not only is it a stupid idea but it is splitting the group apart...
Agreed. Perception is another person's reality. OWS is in it's infancy and needs public support to move forward. This is not going to garner public support, or at least the main support of their followers.
LOL. Weak. The 1% of the Occupy Movement has all the power? Irony FTW.
I love this movement but wtf..... How would they "Monitor Elections", are you kidding me? Now I am hesitant to donate money, they should be spending it here not on stupid stuff like "Monitoring Elections"... What are they going to do? Hang out at the polls all day? Chant "Shame" if someone is pressured to vote for someone?
Wow, if they're sending 20 people on a junket around the world with less than a million in the bank, imagine how corrupt they'd be with a multi-trillion dollar economy. Pot, meet kettle.
corrupt??
It was decided upon at the general assembly. If you oppose it, obviously you were too damn lazy to attend the general assembly to voice your opposition. If you hate democracy, then obviously you don't support OWS.
I mean really... by your argument, any decision that's "voted on" by the governing authorities is by definition valid. Doesn't that sort of take the wind out of ows' sails?
Well, if it was decided by the GA (without a quorum), it must be "right."
Right?
Oh, I get it. You think by using legislative terms like "quorum", you're proving that you're well versed in how you think their consensus should work. By the way, there is no such thing as a quorum at the GA. You're just a jackass that needs to make stuff up because the facts are never on your side.
they are simply following the example of their messiah Barack Hussein
If they go make sure the women cover up. My wife and I went there this summer to see the pyramids and she was heckled and taunted for not wearing a scarf on her head. Things are changing there and decidedly more Islamic and oppressive particularly towards women.
No surprises here. Moneys the root of both Left and Right.
I would say we have more to learn from the Egyptians than they have to benefit/learn from us. Which may well be the point.
I concur that we have a lot to learn, but I doubt sending twenty people to Egypt for one or two days monitoring elections will provide the learning experience. I do feel that $ should be spent at home first.
Do not even dare to question the counsel. They know best, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
ok i get it, you are being sarcastic
Come on. Does anyone believe the people getting sent to Egypt are qualified to monitor elections? More qualified then the United Nations or other observers? More then likely its a bunch of young kids who will smoke weed and try to get laid by some Egyptian ladies. They will try to smoke weed and fuck by the Pyramids. This is just another scam.
Nahh I do not agree with that.
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Well, you have to come up with something to "spend" the money on. How else can you confiscate it without someone noticing?
They need to send people there to make sure the elections are fair and represent the common people. Stop second guessing the counsel and start being part of the solution and not part of the problem. They know best, they will lead us into the future.
ROFL. Even the experts state they are being used by the egyptions as a cover. They will never get near where the voting takes place and will not be allowed to monitor the votes. Savey on the part of the Egyptions, brilliant even. However, a waste of donated money for OWS. I believe this all to draw media attention to the group, but there are better ways, more cost efficient ways to do this. When I was younger I was also idiological, but I grew up. The problem is these people live and breath Zuccati Park and the movement 24/7 and cant see the forest from the trees right now. Unfortunately they are risking public perception and actually the entire movement by going on this trip. While I support their efforts in the US, I am now throwing my support to Wolf-Pac.com. These are a group of adults who are concentrating soley on the 99%, the inequities that are occuring, corporate greed and in changing laws that prevent corporate lobbying, real campaign reform and a constitutional amendment that specifically states corporations do not have the same rights as people. You should look into this group. Lots of high profile people involved and while they support OWS they do not venture outside if the US. A lot of missteps occuring with Occupy lately.
wait a sec.. wow this just sounds weird.
Ummmm, right. Go ahead and question a ballot when the Muslim brotherhood is at the polls. I hope they pack a body bag.
We can only hope
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We need to send these people to make sure the elections are fair and the people are represented. Who are you to ask the counsel to justify their actions? It's time you became part of the solution instead of being part of the problem. The counsel knows best, they will lead us into the future.
eww stop saying that, its creepy
We need to go there so we are satified that the elections are fair. Who are you to question the counsel? You need to fall in line and support anything the counsel does. They know best, stop be part of the problem and start being part of the solution.
The city better sue OWS before they run off to Egypt. All those unpaid camping permit fees, servics provided, ....
The city better sue OWS before they run off to Egypt. All those unpaid camping permit fees, servics provided, ....
I hope this isn't true. There is NOTHING that OWS can do with $29,000 to fight the army of Egypt which has controlled and will continue to control Egypt. The only thing that changed in Egypt since Tahrir is that Mubarak is out. The same military leaders still rule the country. It would be a gross waste of resources to go to Egypt to accomplish anything remotely close to the goal of OWS. Besides, what does Egypt have to do with OWS?
NO it is true. Go to @LibertysqGA on twitter. THey posted last nights GA and 29K was approved for this use. Along with a few other items.
Then I'm done with this senselessness, and so will any free thinker..
At least someone got some trips out of it. We all know how desperately working class Americans need vacations.
This just gets better and better! I love this movement. I've gotten so many belly laughs out it. Thanks! Keep it up.
Yeah,go ahead and visit Egypt. You think those people will like you? What a lot of liberals don't seem to understand is that they are the ones the hard line muslims hate the most. Go try your protest over there and see how far you get. Anyway,WTF does Egypt have to do with OWS? The stupidity of OWS increases daily.
News flash - the muslims don't "hate us because we are free"
They hate us because we won't mind our own business.
In that respect, I'd say neocons have the most to worry about not "hippies".
There you go putting words in my mouth. I never said "hate us because we are free" you did. Hard line muslims hate liberals most of all. The freedoms you enjoy in this country are second to none. The hard liners hate how decadent our American society has become. If you were to attempt to protest like this in a country run by hard liners example: Iran,at best you would go to prison and be beaten. At worst you would never be seen again.
You accuse me of putting words in your mouth then you proceed to elaborate on how the muslims "hate us because we're free". Oh, I'm sorry, not "free" they hate us because we are "decadent". And we can be "decadent" because we are "free".
Don't give me the boogey man of what would theoretically happen to me in Iran. I don't plan to go to Iran. I plan to stay where I "belong" - which is what the rest of the world wishes the United States as a country would do.
As long as I mind my own business, I have nothing to fear from Iran on a personal level.
And if my country would mind its own business, then "we" as a country would have nothing to fear from "muslims" either.
Your blathering about "libruls" just shows how stuck you are in a certain narrative. Free your mind.
You might think about taking your own advice. peace out.