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Forum Post: Y'all are going to get blindsided. You've been warned.

Posted 9 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 2 a.m. EST by quadrawack (280)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Because for all the marching, for all the protesting, there's a beast that very few of you are even considering. It's horrific in size, in it's destructive monstrosity, and what it will do to everyone, from governments to families, even to the Wall Street bankers we villify. It's also the mutated frankenstein of the centralized, debt based, fractional reserve banking system.

It's growing right now, at this very moment. It's across the pond, and it's going to make 2008 look like a picnic. And its unforeseen consequences, will effect all of you to the very bone.

The catalyst to that monster is the European Financial crisis. It's already here, right now. The fall of Europe and the Euro is going to cascade into the fall of the Dollar, the unit you use to trade in. But that's all just a side play. Because, you see, there's something called a derivatives bubble, that's about one quadriliion dollars. That's one thousand trillion dollars. The worldwide GDP is just 58 trillion dollars.

What's a derivative? Imagine you're a trader at one of those Wall Street Banks. You went to the horse races, and bet money that you don't have, that Slickster's going to win. You bet a hundred bucks. Well, slickster didn't win, but you took that bet, put it on a piece of paper as an IOU, and then use it to purchase something. That's the basics of a derivative.

There's a quadrillion of em floating around. And they're all worthless. But they're on the books.

Here's the chain of events as I see it. Just this week, Dexia, a massive Belgium bank, cratered. Every city in Belgium is invested in that bank, and by law, they can't get out. That means the fall of Belgium. Just today, Erste group in Austria, despite being well capitalized, has massive losses due to CDS's aka Credit Default Swaps, a vile Goldman Sach's invention.

No one knows how many European banks are exposed to these things. And many of those banks, like Dexia, traded in derivatives. In a LOT of derivatives.

Greece falls. Germany quits the Euro. Euro falls. CDS's revealed as frauds, once again link to our banks, the Too Big to Fails, who, because we bailed them out, are even BIGGER to BIGS TO FAILS. Now we really can't do anything about them. They all go down. HARD. Because the Euro disappears, people discover the fraud that is the dollar. China dumps treasuries in response to recent tariff actions, and also because they've figured that the dollar is toilet paper.

But that's just the icing. The derivatives, are worthless, but were actually traded and recorded on the Bank records. That's what the Banks owe. It's a massive financial black hole. Because of that, credit evaporates, companies can't make payroll, grocery stores can't buy food, farmer's can't get paid, gas can't get pumped, electric companies can't make payment for fuel.

Your protest, peaceful as it is, and it's one that I greatly sympathize with and appreciate, sadly, my gut feeling is that economic impact, will make the disenfranchisement turn violent.

Communities and states start to beg the Federal government for help.

But because the dollar is now worthless, and credit is destroyed, the US federal government can't even make payroll.

That's when communities realize, they really have to stand on their own with each other. Welcome to the new America.

You will have your revolution, but because of what I'm seeing across the pond, and it's interconnectedness to us, no matter how I've tried to simulate it, I can't get past the conclusion that we're going to have a very chaotic, probably violent revolution. If you want to see what I'm basing my conclusions on, see post 1989 Russia. The only difference is theirs was an over centralized communist regime. Our country is an overcentralized fascist regime. (Mousolini's definition of fascism - collusion of government and corporations) which obviously is what we're all protesting against.

Prepare yourselves.

114 Comments

114 Comments


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[-] 4 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 9 years ago

I hope zombies happen before the world ends in poverty. I think zombies would at least leave people without regret.

You don't want to see me homeless. I will go zombie!

[-] 3 points by Esposito (173) 9 years ago

Zombie's are people too!

[-] 1 points by derek (302) 9 years ago

The good news:

http://cleantechnica.com/2011/05/29/ge-solar-power-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-in-5-years/

http://www.caelusgreenroom.com/2011/05/26/torresol-opens-world%E2%80%99s-first-molten-salt-c-s-p-plant-ecoseed/

Those are for real, but this next device is still iffy, but amazing if it pans out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer

About half the land and water in the USA is used to raise grain to feed to animals, and eating too many animal products (as well as too many refined grains and sugar that causes inflammation) is shortening US lifespans: http://www.westernwatersheds.org/watmess/watmess_2002/2002html_summer/article6.htm http://www.ravediet.com/preview.html http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/foodpyramid.aspx

Remember that about 80% or so of chronic disease (much diabetes, heart disease, cancer, arthritis, and so on) are related to diet and lifestyle. So, you can stay healthy by learning to eat well and live well (Hint: "Eat real food, not too much, mostly plants"). It could help to learn about the miracle of fasting to cure some diseases, too.

Much of modern health care is a scam compared to helping people eat better (which is far cheaper); example: http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/PCI_angioplasty_article.aspx "Trying to figure out how to pay for ineffective and expensive medicine by politicians will never be a real solution. People need to know they do not have to have heart disease to begin with, and if they get it, aggressive nutrition is the most life-saving intervention. And it is free."

So, there is no physical reason our society does not have enough resources to meet everyone's needs if we work together and have reasonable expectations. Always remember that.

I don't agree with Peak Oil fears (as shown by the above innovations in solar energy), but this is an interesting essay by Michael Ruppert and some good background reading, even though I feel it is better to focus on building community than building lifeboats: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110706_mcr_evolution.shtml "Start building your lifeboats where you are now. I can see that the lessons I have learned here are important whether you are thinking of moving from city to countryside, state to state, or nation to nation. Whatever shortcomings you may think exist where you live are far outnumbered by the advantages you have where you are a part of an existing ecosystem that you know and which knows you. If the time comes when it is necessary to leave that community you will be better off moving with your tribe rather than moving alone."

[-] 1 points by derek (302) 9 years ago

One alternative: LETS = Local Exchange Trading Systems http://www.lets-linkup.com

"LETS ... is a group of people from a small community who all agree to exchange goods and services with each other without the need for cash."

It's a step towards a gift economy.

It helped Ecuador during its currency crisis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecosimia "ECOSIMIA is a system which is similar to the many LETS (Local Exchange Trading System) existing around the world: In this particular case a number of such groups from all over Ecuador have come together to form a country-wide trading network. Many Ecosimia members however, have observed that a change in trading relationships as a result of using this currency represents only one side of their experience. They have also discovered that a certain transformation, intimately linked with the use of such a currency, occurs, one which brings with it a new sense of responsibility: for one’s own development, for family relationships, for children’s education and for questions of health. Even cultural aspects between people can be fundamentally changed through the use of Ecosimia, including e.g. spontaneous co-operation between women and men. Perhaps most profoundly, however, this sense of responsibility extends to all of nature, and how the material, vegetable, animal and human elements come together to make life possible on this planet."

Remember -- it takes a community to survive well for any length of time. Building a community is more important than hoarding.

[-] 1 points by cynical1 (8) from Cambria, WI 9 years ago

Sadly, I believe you've summed it all up quite delicately.

And for the record, the what Mussolini said was, "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power."

If you don't think America has become a Corporatist state, then what quadrawack so eloquently stated above probably flew over your head, too.

It is a puzzlement that in our Information Age there is so little awareness associated with it.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 9 years ago

I feel this is a BIT over the top insofar as it paints a picture of only the WORST possible outcome.

If people haven't figured it out yet, money is a very vaporous thing. As long as people are still making and buying things, there's still an "economy," and people can go on living. The only role of money in all this as a lubricant that facilitates exchange of value. All the nations in the word could, today, DOUBLE the amount of money in circulation, and the economy would still run... we'd all simply DOUBLE the price we charge for everything (including our labor) due to "inflation," and life would go on. This is why we don't use or NEED to back our currency with Gold... it's backed by what it can BUY, and GOLD is only ONE such thing.

Dexia did NOT crater, it was BAILED-OUT by France and Belgium, no doubt by printing money just like we did (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-13/dexia-covered-bond-rates-overestimate-risk-morgan-stanley-says.html). Printing all that money doesn't have much impact on ANYONE except the RICH folks who are HOLDING all those bonds and debt. From the CITIZEN'S perspective, they have the cash they need to continue in commerce.

As an aside, I think it's really IRONIC that we're seeing so many people in a POPULIST movement argue AGAINST the Federal Reserve printing money ! Considering the level of debt at the personal, state, and Federal level, most would argue we NEED to inflate the money supply to devalue those debts (yes, at the EXPENSE of the RICH INVESTORS who BOUGHT that debt). That's EXACTLY what the Federal Reserve has been doing for some time now under "Quantitative Easing" (QE) and China, a major debt holder, is NONE TO HAPPY about it ! Not ONLY did we DEVALUE the DEBT they hold, we ALSO raised the COST of their IMPORTS in our market ! Muhahaha ! Go Fed, Go !

I bet China is REALLY happy to hear the way folks are talking NOW !

[-] 1 points by RLA4000 (2) 9 years ago

Ive known this for years, well said QUAD and well backed up...I raised this with my Dad 5 or so days ago and he said I was an Idiot among other things...He never believes a thing Ive said regarding any of this. I hope he wakes up soon for his own well being.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

That's the sad part. It took me the better part of 3 years to convince my folks to get all their money out of the stock market and to move away from the dollar. But we did it in time.

[-] 1 points by abmebratu (349) from Washington, DC 9 years ago

Hey guys, what's up with the alarmist tone. Listen,I'm all for meaningful change and accountability in the world of financial markets , but some of this apocalyptic 2012 stuff is a bit too stretched. For instance, thereat is no doubt that the Russian revolution of 1917 was cataclysmic, however, It's important to keep in mind that 1917 took decades to agitation to reach 1917; and remember the results were not all that better.............The world financial markets might dry up tomorrow. Now this might cause a significant catastrophe, but I'm sure it's not going to be the end.

[-] 1 points by RichardGates (1529) 9 years ago

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq2Aa2m1mcYwdE5pLVFtY0dfM1cwU3hMYjZUSjhsZmc&hl=en_US this is a free poll. please participate and pass the link along

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

And so it begins...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/market-slumps-after-european-banks-admit-they-cantwont-raise-capital-will-proceed-asset-liquida

"Market Slumps After European Banks Admit They Can't/Won't Raise Capital; Will Proceed With Asset Liquidations Instead"

The average European bank’s equity is trading at only about 60 per cent of its book value.) and instead will opt for asset liquidations. Now, whether they won't, or, as we have claimed since the first day we heard of the ludicrous "recap" rumors, they can't, simply because absent a massively dilutive rights offering, nobody in their right mind would lend to an industry which continues to be locked out of short-term funding markets for the 4th month in a row, is largely irrelevant. As a result no new money can come in: a key prerequisite to any European recapitalization plans. Of course, it is one for a "blog" to say that, it is something else for the FT to confirm it, even if it is a rumor.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 9 years ago

something is going down. we don't know when exactly but soon enough

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 9 years ago

That's some pretty nice prose.

[-] 1 points by HankRearden (476) 9 years ago

This is your wake-up call, people. Ignore it at your peril.

Have a way to get away from any big city. Scroll to the bottom, read Quadrawack's last post about how to survive.

[-] 1 points by bootsy3000 (180) 9 years ago

Interesting post, hopefully you're wrong, but you may be right. But I have a question. Ok. Let's say Europe fails entirely; the dollar collapses, everyone is broke. Looters go from house to house looking for food, medicine, etc, generally inflicting violence, etc. It's bad. The police give up and join in. But where do the armies go? What happens to the nuclear weapons? The stealth bombers? Do the satellites break down? Does GPS stop working? If everyone's as broke as all that, who's to protect the governments and the corporations?

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

When there's no money, no one.

[-] 1 points by luparb (290) 9 years ago

great post.

I believe many people have been waiting for this kind of collapse for a long time, perhaps for most of their lives.

For those with vested interests within this system, it is a tumultuous and chaotic. For others it's very exciting.

See the Greek farmers. They supported the revolution despite not getting paid. They contributed massive amounts of food for free towards the protesters.

When money becomes worthless, this will be an opportunity for people to contribute towards their community in a meaningful way, like vegetable gardens, and other small scale sustainable projects that don't generate profits, but have intrinsic value.

Capital and surplus value are abstract and invisible. The collapse of the financial world won't necessarily mean suddenly all the crops will fail. There's still be food and other resources, but the methods of transaction will be drastically reconfigured - probably by a democratic process on the communal level - not through exchange of money.

Maybe you're right and there will be some kind of civil war. I don't know, I think overall people are more inclined to want to help each other than fight.

[-] 1 points by HankRearden (476) 9 years ago

People will always use money. Gold and silver coins will fill the bill.

[-] 1 points by luparb (290) 9 years ago

I think a new currency will be invented to be honest.

One that is based on the amount of hours you spend working, not how much precious metals you happen to have sitting around.

[-] 1 points by HankRearden (476) 9 years ago

Past history doesn't support that. The more likely scenario is that they will replace the current money with new paper, with a FAKE gold standard behind it.

Fake, as in "It's backed by gold, but you can't have any, it's all in a secret vault somewhere, and you don't need it anyway".

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

This is one way that other countries have adapted to a financial crisis to ensure trade and services can still flow. The example I keep referring to is Argentina, because I was there to witness it's collapse.

http://youtu.be/PDKeQ4IACJ4

And this one's the Ithaca hours system, an example that works in our country.

http://youtu.be/Jy2nCHX36tI

[-] 1 points by Febs (824) from Plymouth Meeting, PA 9 years ago

Watch Greece closely.

[-] 1 points by aliyatrinity (26) from Broadford, VA 9 years ago

I don't want to live in a violent society, fighting to keep my food when others around me are starving. If we think as a community with neighbors joining together, become functioning communities, each participating in the the survival of the other, we could see our way through this disaster with greater ease.

Forget the money, it's lost. Get rid of your US dollars and buy things that support life. You will need heat, food and water. If you don't think it will happen here, you are mistaken.

There is not much time and it could take 10 years or more to recover. Three months of food is not enough. Find out what wild foods grow in your area, how to find and use them. Store lots and lots of seeds and know how to use them. Look into natural water filtration system to use on your local rivers that will provide safe, fresh drinking water. Learn how to store meat without refrigeration.

Make a list of everything you need to survive.

FIRST: eliminate everything that is not necessary on the list. SECOND: notice the items you can create, make and do yourself and get those ready (understand that electricity and money may not be easily accessible). THIRD: set up a relationship with the things accessible in your area (a mill, a chicken farm - understanding they may lose access to their supplies, feed, etc...). FOURTH: notice what's left and look for ways to provide that.

The main goal is to produce enough food for your neighborhood so you are all strong together. This is alot of work, my garden this summer produced veggies for my family, but I do not have meat, breads or dairy. I've been working on this for 2 years and I am not ready. If I had more funds I would be doing more.

If this happens, plant hemp seeds and fast - this renewable resource use to be the #1 crop in our country and for good reason. It can provide materials for clothing and paper, seed for highly nutritious foods and powerful medicine!

Our homes, lifestyles and communities should support our survival.

[-] 1 points by luparb (290) 9 years ago

I'm very optimistic.

There's a lot of people who have been waiting for an opportunity to contribute to their community in a meaningful way for a very very long time.

Right now, everybody is enslaved to their jobs in order to survive. Once we are no longer bound to rent, taxes, bills, materialistic lusts, and money, we will be given a chance to work on projects in our community.

Vegetable gardens, water tanks, distillation devices, solar arrays, this sort of small scale sustainable activity will explode.

The mentality of fighting over resources will die with capitalism, which is what is crumbling.

Some people might retain old bad habits but I think the majority of people are more compassionate.

An example is - In Greece, the farmers supported the revolution by driving in trucks of food to the protesters. They didn't care about not being paid, that didn't stop them.

Capitol and surplus value is worthless. It's not even worth the paper it's printed on.

The only people who are really freaking out right now are those with vested interests in this system.

But yes, we have to be diligent, frugal, practical and work very very hard.

My vegetable garden needs work too (a fair bit of spinache, some lemons but not much else lol), but my bet is that a million people will be saying the same thing, and with a million vegetable gardens all around us people would have no reason to rob you.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Consider promoting community currencies in your communities as an economic lifeboat, and to knit together the producers/merchants for a local trade network. This will sustain you during a crisis.

[-] 1 points by aliyatrinity (26) from Broadford, VA 9 years ago

Most of us have never lived through something like this and have only vague concepts of what to expect. Yes, local currencies seem to be essential. We are also investing in silver rope that can be easily cut, hammered and weighed in case we need to trade outside of our local area.

There are not enough seeds in this country for everyone. Some of my local stores ran out of seeds this year even though a small percentage of people grow gardens. I harvested many seeds this summer and I hope others are doing the same. It takes good weather and a minimum of 28 days to start getting food from a garden. In the meantime, canned and dried foods are essential. Also, invest in sprouts. They can be grown in days and supply mega amounts of nutrients! Many sprout seeds can also be used in a garden. :-)

[-] 1 points by Vincenzo (47) 9 years ago

quadrawack - it appears you studied this quite a bit, and I know next to nothing about it. Having said that, I ask, how are you so sure Germany will quit the Euro? And if China dumps their treasuries, that would ultimately be bad for US consumers, right? Wouldn't that hurt China? US consumers are their customers? Their people are employed largely because of the US consumer. The US consumer goes away and you have social unrest in China. I doubt China would want that.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

The German public recently polled and over 60% of them want out of the Euro. Also, according to Dr. Pippa Malmgrem, who was once part of the Bush economic team and a financial analyst, the German banks have started reprinting Deutschmarks for a worse case scenario. On top, Slovakia voted against the EFSF to recapitalize the banks, and the European Union requires a unanimous vote. As for China, the current legislation going through congress to enact Tariffs is going require to politically and financially respond in kind, and the word is that they'll exercise their financial nuclear option, to get rid of treasuries. It's also the reason they've been working over time to stop using dollars for trade in Africa, Russia, India, and parts of South America. Russia's already gotten rid of 95% of their treasuries, Israel got rid of 45%. Recent Fed data of September indicates a mass 56 billion, a record, of treasuries were dumped by foreigners. My interpretation is people in the inside see something nasty coming up, and they're getting out.

[-] 1 points by Vincenzo (47) 9 years ago

"is going require to politically and financially respond in kind, and the word is that they'll exercise their financial nuclear option"

"Word is"? Can you be more specific?

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Here's a chart of treasuries. http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/09/USTs%20custody%2010.8.jpg

And here's a couple of articles: China already divesting of treasuries http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/china-has-divested-97-percent-its-holdings-us-treasury-bills

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/look-at-china-dump-treasury-holdings-at-this-scary-pace.html/

And this is a list of what China would do in a trade war. http://seekingalpha.com/article/227213-prepare-for-currency-trade-wars-how-might-china-respond-to-u-s-tariffs

The last link says that it's unlikely that China will dump treasuries. But in the first two links I've posted for you, they've been divesting a massive amount this year. Then word from congress comes out about more tariffs, and that's where that chart pops up of foreigners dumping treasuries.

That's how I reached my conclusions.

[-] 1 points by oceanweed (521) 9 years ago

end bush tax cuts , rebuild America bridges and roads , invest in middle class not banking class thats the occupy wall street message.

[-] 1 points by aceanibal (63) 9 years ago

You are correct quadrawack but is not as big as it seems. Thanks to twitter and the internet we will all remain civilized cause is so easy to get a message out really fast. The transition will be very fast. all our money is electronic too so don't sweat it

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

I hope to God that you're right. I've been in a country that collapsed (Argentina). I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.

[-] 1 points by aceanibal (63) 9 years ago

yea hopefully it happens smoothly but hey! South America is booming now!

[-] 1 points by aceanibal (63) 9 years ago

Trust me it doesn't matter how bad the economy gets people will buy the iPhone 5, 6 and 7. whatever currency apple employees except to go to work the next day will be our new currency. Hopefully wall street will be around to make that transition faster

[-] 1 points by aceanibal (63) 9 years ago

in a micro level if you have a home loan or student loan your winning.

[-] 1 points by Poplicola (125) from Jersey City, NJ 9 years ago

Truf', but no need to scare the children.

[-] 1 points by notresponsible42 (64) from Jacksonville, FL 9 years ago

Silly horseshit.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Disprove my thesis then.

[-] 1 points by notresponsible42 (64) from Jacksonville, FL 9 years ago

quadrillion and the rest of your hyperbole. Look I feel your passion. I think you are on the right path. But fact-less assumptions and rhetoric isn't going to win the day. That is Rovian republican tactics. Do not beat the Devil with his own whip.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

This one is about Dexia

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/big-pis-ceo-europes-most-troubled-bank-dexia-quits-contagion-tsunami-sweeps-over-belgium

"BIG PIS: The CEO Of Europe's Most Troubled Bank, Dexia, Quits As Contagion Tsunami Sweeps Over Belgium"

And this one is about Erste group

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/erste-group-reveals-stunner-reports-billions-previously-undisclosed-underwater-sovereign-cds-wh

"Erste Group Reveals Stunner: Reports Billions In Previously Undisclosed Underwater Sovereign CDS; Who Is Next? And How Much More Is Out There?"

But most damning about Europe is this video from the freaking IMF themselves

http://youtu.be/pc1VE7PaH9c

Again. Disprove my thesis. I'm waiting.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

It is NOT hyperbole. It is acknowledged FACT by experts http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/archives/2008/10/the_size_of_der.php

"The Size of Derivatives Bubble = $190K Per Person on Planet"

and here

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/derivatives-the-quadrillion-dollar-financial-casino-completely-dominated-by-the-big-international-banks

"Derivatives: The Quadrillion Dollar Financial Casino Completely Dominated By The Big International Banks"

And here

http://hawaiinewsdaily.com/2011/07/popping-the-1-quadrillion-derivatives-bubble-not-if-but-when/

"Popping the Quadrillion-Dollar Derivatives Bubble: Not If, But When"

And here

http://www.marketwatch.com/Community/groups/us-politics/topics/12-1-quadrillion-derivatives-bubble-acknowledged

"The $1/2-1 QUADRILLION Derivatives Bubble is acknowledged ion marketwatch"

You fail. Try again.

[-] 1 points by notresponsible42 (64) from Jacksonville, FL 9 years ago

Sorry. Your references are not credible. More hs.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

And if CNBC and the New York Times aren't good enough for you, this ones from BLOOMBERG

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aH_TsBEHBRqI&refer=bond

" Exchange Traded Derivatives Increased 30%, BIS Says (Update1) By Liz Capo McCormick - June 9, 2008 10:59 EDT"

"Want to save this for later? Add it to your Queue! Exchange Traded Derivatives Increased 30%, BIS Says (Update1) By Liz Capo McCormick - June 9, 2008 10:59 EDT

June 9 (Bloomberg) -- Trading in derivatives, led by short- term interest-rate futures, climbed 30 percent to a record $692 trillion in the first quarter, signaling a possible easing of tensions in the money markets, the Bank for International Settlements said. "

692 TRILLION. That was in 2008!! 3 years ago! And Bloomberg is a mainstream financial publication!

You failed utterly.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Here's yet another one on the quadrillion dollar derivatives bubble

http://youtu.be/nLV1DBmr4xc

And another one...

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/w-lorimer-wilson/is-the-end-game-hperinflation-or-debt-implosion

You fail. Epicly.

By the way, Financial sense has some of the best thinkers in economics and finance staffed by legends like Jim Puplava,

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

I would love to see you provide a credible reference then.

Here's some more. from CNBC and the NY times.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/40628316/

"A Secretive Banking Elite Rules Trading in Derivatives "

Here's a salient quote.

"The Bank of New York Mellon’s [BK 18.85 1.02 (+5.72%) ] origins go back to 1784, when it was founded by Alexander Hamilton. Today, it provides administrative services on more than $23 trillion of institutional money. "

23 TRILLION just with the Bank of New York.

Here's another one

http://seekingalpha.com/article/241573-derivatives-the-big-banks-quadrillion-dollar-financial-casino

"Derivatives: The Big Banks' Quadrillion-Dollar Financial Casino "

If the CNBC and New York Times mainstream media isn't good enough for you, than obviously you have no idea how to do any kind of research and fact checking.

[-] 1 points by notresponsible42 (64) from Jacksonville, FL 9 years ago

look I am sorry to start your motor Quad. I am sure I agree with you in principle. Perhaps I am off-put by your blind negativism. The whole world and Mars knew about derivatives years before the melt-down. Our government just didn't do anything about it. In fact, Brooksley Born the chairperson of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission warned of the danger of this unregulated market and was dismissed by the GWB financial asswipes. The going line is that the banks said regulation of derivatives would cause a disaster- a melt down. Holy shitballs. If millions of people didn't lose their jobs and homes, it would be soo funny I would fart.

Let us please get the corp out of Our government. At lease long enough so we can get the stink out of the carpet.

[-] 1 points by OccupyDC (153) 9 years ago

If what you say is true, then New York City is screwed.

Law abiding citizens don't have firearms to protect themselves. A few do, but the police are very stingy with giving out permits even for rifles and shotguns.

That means only the criminals and law enforcement officers have firearms. The armed criminal element as a whole far outnumbers the law enforcement community living and working in the city.

During armed riots in a collapse many police officers will not even bother reporting to work because they will be busy getting their families out of the city.

NYC would not be a pretty place during a complete economic collapse.

[-] 1 points by Brookelorren (5) 9 years ago

Keep your eye on things. Be ready to escape, on foot, if you have to.

Learn karate or some other form of martial arts, if you can. Keep a low profile.

If you 99% people really want to prepare, buy a plot of land or something, and prepare to work on it when the time comes. I know that some of your group has hit on hard times, but there are some people aligned with you that do have the means to do this. If you work together, you will get through it, just like us 1%ers will. Those that have the money, get the land and share with those that don't have the money. That's just my suggestion; take it for what it's worth.

I've been making plans for what to do when the US collapses for years now. I saw it happening a mile away. The advantage of being a 1% with very little money is that I don't have much to lose. Unless I am killed, I will survive though. Even if I have to live out in a cave in some remote corner of a National Park. I do have somewhere else to go though, but if that fell through, I'd go with a plan B.

[-] 1 points by EndTheFedNow (692) 9 years ago

It will be ugly, alright. I lived through the LA riots. Live in the sticks, now ;-)

[-] 1 points by OccupyDC (153) 9 years ago

It would make L.A. look like Disneyland.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Yeah. That sounds about right. When I saw what went down in Buenos Aires during it's collapse, it was a free for all war zone. Blonde white kids starving with distended bellies like something out of Africa, wiped out middle class scrounging in dumpsters, 6 presidents in 2 weeks, massive kidnap for ransom as a business, riots, the whole nine yards... it was severely disorienting, disturbing, and that's what got me started figuring out what the hell was up with our financial system. And that was in 2001.

I just want folks to be ready.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

If we use Buenos Aires, Argentina, in 2001 during it's collapse as an example, it will be very chaotic. And violent.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 9 years ago

Public banks (IE: Bank of North Dakota) are the answer. Let the big banks fail - they are TOO BIG TO SAVE !

http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/north_dakota.php

North Dakota has had the lowest unemployment in the country (or was tied for the lowest unemployment rate in the country) every single month since July 2008.

Its healthy job market is also reflected in its payroll growth numbers. . . .Year over year, its payrolls grew by 5.2 percent.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Agreed. I would add we should permit a Free Banking system, to stop the monopoly of the money supply by the Federal Reserve. Centralization only leads to more abuse, waste, and fraud. Buckminster Fuller stated it best that trends of the future center on decentralization.

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 9 years ago

Yes, I think we agree . . . Our money should be issued as a debt FREE currency - and spent into circulation.

The money issuing power should never be alienated from democratically elected government and placed ambiguously into private hands as it is in America in the Federal Reserve System today.

In fact, the bulk of our money supply isn’t created by our government, but by private banks when they make loans. Through the Fed’s fractional reserve process what we use for money is issued as interest-bearing debt.

Our money system is controlled by private banks for their agendas, not for the common good. Our government has the power to issue money (Art.1, Sect.8) and spend it into circulation to promote the general welfare; including for infrastructure, education and health care; not misuse the money system for speculation as banks have historically done. Our lawmakers must now reclaim that power! - Stephen Zarlenga

http://www.Monetary.org

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

No argument with that. Question is how to educate OWS. Course, the big problem is Europe is happening now. I'm afraid there's little we can do in the next 6-9 months. Other than hopefully stand aside as the massive citadel crumbles, not get enveloped in it, and get our communities ready to adapt as quickly as possible. The Federal Government won't be able to help us, nor would they want to. I'm also looking at the Ithaca hours system of community currencies as a possibility for my community.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 9 years ago

Good news . . I'm hoping that if we all do everything we can . . and by the grace of God, as well. . . that some how we will make it through.

CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE PASSES BILL TO STUDY STATE-OWNED BANK

Ellen Brown September 12, 2011

www.webofdebt.com/articles/california_leg.php

AB 750, California’s bill to study the feasibility of establishing a state-owned bank that would receive deposits of state funds, has passed both houses of the legislature and is now on the desk of Governor Jerry Brown awaiting his signature.

It could be the governor’s chance to restore the state to its former glory.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Good luck to you and god speed. I'm doing everything in my community to get them ready.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

I actually posted a guideline on this as a form of Asymetric nonviolent warfare against Wall STreet and the Federal Reserve. Just do a look up of Asymetric nonviolent in the forums.

[-] 1 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 9 years ago

Doomtard. Economic crisis is easy to fix. There are plenty of people standing by waiting on a population ready to move forward.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

If that's the case, then why are we still suffering the after effects of 2008? Answer that one.

[-] 1 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 9 years ago

Why wouldn't be? The crisis is intentional.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

If the crisis is intentional, then where are all the people moving forward. It's been two years after all.

[-] 1 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 9 years ago

I'm not sure if you noticed, but in 2011:

A prominent Judge was assassinated

Radiation began raining down on the USA

The Washington Monument was cracked

A CFR psy-op tard ran around desperately trying to muddy the OBL waters

An obviously fake BC was released

...just to name a few.

Have you ever seen such a spectacle?

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Not sure how this relates, but... In the first four months we've had mass mysterious animal deaths at least five massive coronal mass ejections from the sun, unprecendented Japan had an earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear disaster We had an earthquake on the east coast that's unprecedented in size for a century

and if you note that economics is basically how masses of people use their life energy, cause working for a living means you trade your life time units for currency, that we've been in the most chaotic economic period of all time.

Can't say I've ever seen such a spectacle, but I do know when something is unprecedented like what's happening now.

Your point please?

[-] 1 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 9 years ago

Look at it this way. A lot of people in the USA still think the Federal Reserve is a federal body rather than privately owned. The "left" and "right" media both tell them this and have for their entire lives. You can't just drop truth bombs on the public in one day and not have a breakdown in societal order. However, turning the heat up on the truth is a process that the sheeple can get exponentially better at dealing with without societal breakdown. It's a process...

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

I completely understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is we are essentially out of time to make even fundamental preparations... unless there's a way to stall the slow motion train wreck of a basket case that we call Europe.

[-] 2 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 9 years ago

Yeah, I completely agree with that. What I am telling you is that there is. The right people can turn this thing on a dime pretty much overnight.

[-] 1 points by aswewalk (104) 9 years ago

I agree with that.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

I wish I had your optimism. Cause man, this economic/financial shitstorm is moving a lot faster than I expected.

[-] 2 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 9 years ago

Right. Have to bring things to a head on an accelerated schedule to get systemic change.

Or would you prefer to keep approaching the boiling point slowly like a good little froggie?

Have faith. :)

[-] 1 points by aswewalk (104) 9 years ago

Agree.

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 9 years ago

Become self sustainable asap

[-] 2 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

I'm a fan of John Robb's global guerillas. That's a great starting point. I also posted a guideline on this as a form of Asymetric nonviolent warfare against Wall STreet and the Federal Reserve. Just do a look up of Asymetric nonviolent in the forums.

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 9 years ago

Yes, becoming sustainable at a community level would be even better

[-] 1 points by MadCat (160) 9 years ago

Not a bad idea. Now that I've crapped my pants from reading this though, I need to run to the lavatory first...

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Consider some bathroom reading on resiliency to prepare. :D Sorry about soiling your pants.

[-] 1 points by geminitwiin (8) 9 years ago

wow.... so much to absorb...my head's about to explode. I need a beer dammmmit.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (8708) 9 years ago

Very subtle, very skillful. They did a goos job of training you, wherever you were trained.

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

:) look buddy. I was in Buenos Aires in 2001 when it collapsed. I don't want anyone to ever have to go through that. But that's what's happening, and no one can stop it. Take it as you wish, march, protest, but don't forget your friends and family. You can't help people if you yourself are starving.

I consider it my job to give people a road map of what's ahead to be ready. I'll take it as your job to march for change.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (8708) 9 years ago

You're not telling me anything I haven't known for years. The problem is they don't make lifeboats that can hold seven billion people, so we better try to solve our problems rather than go home and try to find local solutions for problems beyond local solutions. You seem to have a touching faith in the capasity of people to solve global economic problems by building a fallout shelter or something. Nonsence!

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Just look at how Europe is trying to handle their situation that's slipping out of control. What makes you think our government even has the capacity to handle this? From what I saw in Argentina in 2001, the smaller communities survived the economic collapse a lot better than the cities and the overall government. So yes, I have a lot more faith in a community of people working together to come up with local solutions that function and thrive than I do a massive government. Just look at Iceland's example if Argentina's is too foreign.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (8708) 9 years ago

The underlying message here is "just go home cause it's all going to collapse anyway and there's nothing you can do about it. Right, Quack?

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Well... no. The underlying message is to get ready for an even bigger financial tsunami that's out of any government's ability to even get a handle on. If you want to march, by all means, march. I'd rather have people call attention to the perps that created this frankenstein of a system that we're in. It's the least we can do. But don't forget your families, friends, and local communities, because when push comes to shove, they're the ones you depend on. And if they aren't prepared, that's a lot of people who aren't in the life boat.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (8708) 9 years ago

All this is immaterial to the questions at hand, and I think just written to inspire fear. Maybe we'll be hit by an asteroid, how is that any more material to the issues at hand?

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

How do you change a system, when you're trying to get food to survive because of an economic crisis that hits you on the blind side? Would it not be better to be prepared for it so instead of worrying about food, you can help others?

If this is truly immaterial, then there is no reason to march in protest, because indeed those banks are immaterial. They wouldn't effect us. And yet they do.

Can you resolve this paradox?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 9 years ago

Just HOW do you prepare for it?

[-] 1 points by quadrawack (280) 9 years ago

Psychological preparation is the key, and most important. Do not let Fear take over. Do not let panic take over. Take care of key essentials first. That's food, water, gold/silver/cash, guns, make sure your savings are not in the stocks or bond market. Then proceed to working with your neighbors, family, and community to build resiliency. The communities that survived in the Argentina crisis had local trade networks. Buenos Aires however was a shit storm. Look to the people who've had the worst foisted on them (3rd world, latin america), and copy their survival techniques.

Cause this isn't going to be a cakewalk. It's a very very different experience. Have any friends who volunteered in the Peace Corps? Cause they'll have a good sense of it.