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Forum Post: Syria: Challenging the Binary View

Posted 7 months ago on Sept. 6, 2013, 10:25 a.m. EST by shooz (26709)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"As the US intensifies its push for military intervention in Syria, virtually the only narrative available swings from the brutal regime of Bashar al-Assad to the role of Islamist elements within the resistance. Further, where dissent with the US position appears, much of it hinges on the contradiction of providing support for Al Qaeda-linked entities seeking to topple the regime, as though they represent the only countervailing force to the existing dictatorship. But as Jay Cassano recently wrote for tech magazine Fast Company, the network of unarmed, democratic resistance to Assad's regime is rich and varied, representing a vast web of local political initiatives, arts-based coalitions, human rights organizations, nonviolence groups and more. (The Syria Nonviolence Movement created an online, interactive map to demonstrate this intricate network of connections.)

Meanwhile, the writing and dispatches of Syrian anarchists have been enormously influential in other Arab struggles, with anarchists tortured to death in Assad's prisons memorialized in the writing of Palestinians, and at demonstrations for Palestinian political prisoners held in Israel. Two key features of this unfolding warrant close attention: the manner in which anarchists in the Arab world are increasingly staging critiques and interventions that upend the contradictions held up as justification for US foreign policy, and the ongoing conversations between anti-authoritarian movements in the Arab world that bypass and remain unmediated by Western reference points. Whether Syrian anarchists' insistence on self-determination as a central organizing principle can withstand the immediate reality of violence or the leverage of foreign interests remains an open question.

Nader Atassi is a Syrian political researcher and writer originally from Homs, currently living between the United States and Beirut. He runs the blog Darth Nader, reflecting on events within the Syrian revolution. I talked him into chatting about its anarchist traces, and the prospect of US intervention. "

Interview, with an anarchist:

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/18617-syrian-anarchist-challenges-the-rebel-regime-binary-view-of-resistance

118 Comments

118 Comments


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[-] 4 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

not surprising this post doesn't get a lot of traction.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Honesty doesn't get a lot of airplay.

I found this to be the clearest, most straight forward look at the situation there.

What's there to argue with?

You recently wrote on your blog about possible US intervention as a sort of corollary to Iranian and Russian intervention on behalf of Assad, and Islamist intervention in revolutionary movements. Much as with Egypt recently, anarchists seem something of signature voice against two unsatisfactory poles within mainstream coverage - a voice preoccupied with self-determination. Is that a fair understanding?

Yes, I believe it is, but I would clarify a few things, as well. In the case of Syria, there are many who fit that description; not only anarchists, but Trotskyists, Marxists, leftists, and even some liberals. Also, this iteration of self-determination is based on autonomy and decentralization, not Wilsonian notions of "one people" with some kind of nationalist, centralized self-determination. It is about Syrians being able to determine their own destinies not in the nationalist sense, but in the micro-political sense. So for example, Syrian self-determination doesn't mean one track which all the Syrians follow, but each person determining their own track, without others interfering. So Syrian Kurds, for example, also have the right to full self-determination in this conception, rather than forcing them into an arbitrary Syrian identity and saying that all the people that fall under this identity have one destiny.

And when we talk about parties, such as the regime, but also its foreign allies, and the jihadis who are against Syrian self-determination - this is not because there is one narrative of Syrian self-determination and jihadis are against it. Rather, they want to impose their own narrative on everyone else. The regime works and has always worked against Syrian self-determination because it holds all political power and refuses to share it. The Islamists work against Syrian self-determination not by virtue of them being Islamists (which is why a lot of liberals oppose them), but because they have a vision of how society should function, and want to forcefully impose that on others whether those people consent to it or not. This is against Syrian self-determination, as well. The allies of the Assad regime, Iran, Russia and various foreign militias, are against Syrian self-determination because they are determined to prop up this regime due to the fact that they've decided their geopolitical interests supersede Syrians deciding their destiny for themselves.

So yes, the mainstream coverage always tries to portray people as belonging to some kind of binary. But the Syrian revolution erupted as people demanding self-determination from the one party that was denying it to them: the regime of Bashar al Assad. As time passed, other actors came onto the scene who also denied Syrians their self-determination, even some who fought against the regime. But the position was never simply to be against the regime for the sake of being against the regime, just as I presume that in Egypt, our comrades' position is not being against the Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood] for the sake of being against the Ikhwan. The regime took self-determination away from the people, and any removal of the regime that results in replacing it with someone else who will dominate Syrians should not be seen as a success. As in Egypt, when the Ikhwan came to power, those who considered them an affront to the revolution, even if they weren't felool [Mubarak loyalists], kept repeating the slogan "al thawra mustamera" ["the revolution continues"]. So too will it be in Syria if, after the regime is gone, a party comes to power that also denies Syrians their right to determine their own destiny.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Perhaps anarchists here are terrified to support Syrian Self Determination simply because they fear that if it is based on principles of anarchism it will fail.

I believe they have earned the right to determine for themselves how and under what rule they shall live.

I believe we should support that right.

I believe we must support their basic right to life.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Self governance, still seems to escape them.

the quote.

"believe Omar's vision did breathe life into the way local councils operate, although it is worth noting that the councils have stopped short of self-governance, opting instead for focusing on media and aid efforts. But they still operate based on principles of mutual aid, cooperation and consensus."

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

ah well, you know, self governance seems to escape me more than half the time . . .

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

LOL.......I do better than I used to.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 months ago

democracy and anarchism cannot function without the other

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Your support involves more violence, and you are entrusting it to the leading cause of terrorism in the world.

For how many more decades are we as a people going to keep doing the same things and expecting different results?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Your support involves more violence, and you are entrusting it to the leading cause of terrorism in the world.

Pithy but not quite accurate. Were our military planners commanded by a repelican then no doubt, your statement would bear far more accuracy.

But you do not accept that the President's decisions regarding our military involvement in Libya were either appropriate or measured - instead in your mind it represents further proof of your allegations and that could not be further from the truth.

We have no more to discuss.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

You are one hell of a supporter, I'll give you that much.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

regardless of how it started, the violence in Libya, as with Syria today, had already begun.

Waves of refugees were flooding Europe through Italy and France.

France and England were going to respond. That is a fact. It is the way it was.

We stepped in and provided eyes on, helping improve accuracy of the British and French air campaign. Was it perfect? No. Mass violence of that nature rarely is.

But it beat the hell out of letting Gaddafi destroy Misurata and every human being in it.

John McCain wanted us to take the lead role, and he wanted us on the ground, in large numbers. Fortunately he wasn't Commander in Chief.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

And you saw these people flooding Europe with your own eyes? Or were you going on a pro war media intent on getting approval for the removal of a government and replacement of another?

Just more WMD nonsense. Tonkin 2.0

Meanwhile place with real problems, like our own cities, dont get a mention. I dont like this system, and Im not taking a single word they say as truth ever again.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

then I suppose you are left to accept the premise that

nothing is true

everything is permitted

it is a premise I reject out of hand

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

At this point, studying the corruption for as long as I have, and having been involved in enough campaigns to become very familiar with what the goals -preelection are= and then seeing them all trampled on, repeatedly....

Yes, I am going with nothing is true. Its better odds than believing.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

you are attempting to enter a very dark place. I've had my head fuked with by the very best and you are not it.

We will not be friends. We will never be friends. Honesty is not in you. Even your generalizations are so general as to be lies. You have no integrity.

You deliberately lead others astray.

You should have both of your legs broken, that you might lead them more slowly.

At least it would be fun to watch.

[+] -4 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

The day you have the gumption to actually do that to someone will be your first. I'm not too worried.

I'm not here to make friends with faceless usernames, Im here to discuss and possibly learn something, of which does happen. I also find it a personal duty to find people who support the war machine and attampt to put their misguided faith- do to various reasons- in line with basic common sense and dignity.

I'd love to see you show up at some antiwar demonstrations with people hwo have served and talk all your bullshit. Talk about breaking peoples legs. Your scrawny ass wouldnt last a heartbeat in the wars you want so badly.

You want him out? Then take your raggedy old ass over there and get busy. Stop asking others to do your blood lust.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I'm not a faceless user name, as you know well.

And you are not here to learn a damn thing, rather your intent is to protect the ALEC / Koch machine because that is what the boss has determined you are here for. And so here you are.

As for those who have genuine conscientious objections to shoving a cruise missile up Assad's ass, I believe I have been clear in one of my forum posts on that issue.

I do not believe your objections arise because of anything other than purely partisan considerations.

IF someone asks what you think, you hand out icons, as if they were pins one could attach to their lapel.

YOu are no better than any other politician.

[-] -2 points by richlago1 (-25) 7 months ago

You come very close to quoting Einstein! He also said "Imagination is more important then knowledge" And that falls very close to a Lennon-ist ideology (John Lennon, not the russian dude) 'Imagine'. Our most outspoken fab four band leader also said "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination". I tend to agree!

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I think matt was looking for this post

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

I hope he found it......:)

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I don't much care - he may have been attempting to make some other point.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

It would have been fairly opaque anyway.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

The KLA was once upon a terrorist.

I find it very, very interesting that NPR is running all kinds of crap nonstop it seems on those people who all of a sudden want intervention.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Like so many others, they have difficulty moving away from the binary/duopoly points of view.

It's more complicated than any US media "service" could make palatable, and understandable to a public raised on those concepts.

http://www.fastcolabs.com/3016532/this-interactive-infographic-shows-the-depth-of-the-syrian-resistance

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

I'm not interested in what the media service says. Really. The point of mentioning NPR is that, if you recall, there was non stop Libya-was-the-best-move-ever crap.

And there was ample time to debate this around this time http://www.stripes.com/news/us-patriot-missile-battery-in-turkey-comes-under-nato-command-1.206582

When that happened everybody knew exactly what the score was. Where were the Syrian anarchist interviews then? How about a year and half ago? How about 2 years ago?

This is no more complicated than it was/is in Iraq. No more complicated than it was with the civil war in Lebanon. No more complicated than in Afghanistan 1975----?

In the midst of all of this are the people that just want their kids to go to school, they want to go to work, they want to come home, they want to eat dinner.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

In the midst of all of this are the people that just want their kids to go to school, they want to go to work, they want to come home, they want to eat dinner.

Absolutely:

Could You possibly believe that THIS was your neighborhood?

Watch A Gut-Wrenching Moment: A Father Sees His Son For The First Time After Thinking He Was Dead

[-] 4 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

This is what bothers me. Well, there are two things that bother me.

The first is that all of a sudden we have anarchists in Syria. Kind of like all of a sudden there are anarchists in Egypt. The military just happens to drop by Egypt and two weeks later there are guys clad in black busting shit up? The rest of Egypt has never seen this. Articles come out. Interviews. And no one is even going to question this? Not one person is going to question it?

The second is this: The EU says that they aren't going to buy oil, then they are willing to buy it from rebels, AND it's ok to invest and export equipment.

So, let's cut the shit on this. They are fighting over control of the oil wells and a pipeline. The rebels want to and are selling the oil. This is not about freedom and democracy. You can have a bunch of jackasses running their mouth about AIPAC but.......until the EU grows a pair and stops buying all together..........these people will continue to die. The US, the EU, the UN, China and Russia.........flat out don't give a fuck who dies. So, while it's nice to say....there is an opportunity to bring the house down....there isn't. So, now it's time for people to think about the least amount of people dying.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

What do you think about the Central banks aspect in all of this?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

Yep - Asshat has been killing his people for two years - while the UN sits on it's thumb. I guess everyone thought that Asshat would have been killed by his own people long before now. So all of a sudden an escalation in the killing of his people ( by him? ) by chemical warfare. OOOps Asshat that is a line you can not cross. The world wide community has no problem with you mass murdering your population - as long as you don't do it with chemical weapons. You should have taken a tip from the US indiscriminate killing of civilians with Drones - no Hugh and cry there. Well live and learn - ooops - again - Asshat they want you dead ( your people do as well as the forces of conquest ).

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

If it is sent to the UN general assembly then nothing will be done. That is the reason that anything is sent there. The only way for things to be done is through the Big Five and usually through a bunch of dick swinging diplomats.

Or Asshat has been fighting a bunch of fucknuts that have decided that there is to be a regime change specifically for foreign interests. Which then means that it isn't Asshat that is the Asshat here. He is an asshat for other reasons.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

Or Asshat has been fighting a bunch of fucknuts that have decided that there is to be a regime change for foreign interests.

If so - ya just gotta wonder - how does he think that bombing and shelling his own cities/people would be helpful?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Again, I reiterate the following: The EU says that they aren't going to buy oil, then they are willing to buy it from rebels, AND it's ok to invest and export equipment.

So, let's cut the shit on this. They are fighting over control of the oil wells and a pipeline. The rebels want to and are selling the oil. This is not about freedom and democracy.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

This is not about freedom and democracy.

Correct.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Interesting thought, where were those anarchists is the past? The earliest I could find so far is this.

http://anarchistnews.org/content/joint-message-russian-and-syrian-anarchists

As far as your final statement, that is the way of the innocent in war torn areas throughout history.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Right. Even so, December 2012.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

I'm not trying to start anything here, but I can now imagine ties to whatever they are calling the KGB these days.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Or the CIA?

Shooz? I don't think that you are trying to start anything. Or DKA, either. I think that I am only able to freely discuss anything here with you, D, and Zen.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Or a joint operation, that brought us to where we are today.

I just didn't want to start a conspiracy theory............:)

But I think I just did.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

You know, I was driving when it filtered down into what you meant.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Boggles the mind, when you think of it.

For all the talk about US involvement, the involvement of the USSR and Russia gets almost no attention at all, and it's all on their doorstep.

To think they're not playing their roll is foolhardy.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Sure it does. I said earlier that not every country is a US client state. Russia and China have client states. Syria happens to be Russia's client state. This is where the swinging dick theory gets played out. Now France wants a binding resolution with consequences.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

That's why I said if they were serious about dead Syrians then the EU would grow a pair and would stop buying oil. Facts is correct. Russia would stop that shit immediately.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 months ago

It's a mistake to have a non-public forum

the audience will decrease significantly

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

OK??

So we should call for postings and responses from Assad??

Will you be working on that?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 months ago

sure

but that's up to assad

and will still suffer from language barriers

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Right you got that

[-] -3 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Go study the history of anarchism. Its been around for a very long time. Just because a paper on it wasnt posted on a site you are on doesnt mean it just magically appeared.

People have been fighting for representation and freedom for as long as humanity has been around.

Edit: besides, anarchism has so many different opinions and thoughts on what it is due to the very nature of it, it would be hard to pinpoint anything anyways.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

Two years of Asshats Democide and yep now an intervention can not happen fast enough. But like you say - it is really only now that those who have wanted intervention are getting air time.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Did they? Or did the US just see a shot and wants to take it?

Track record says that the US installs this one until it doesn't get what it needs or wants and then we start the whole damn thing over.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

Well the whole thing has hinged on Russian reaction - as they want Syria for access to oil and ability to run a pipeline to the coast. The USA corp(se)oRATists have been weighing Russia's commitment. Now it seems as though the corp(se)oRATist hawks think they can call Russia's bluff.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Meh.

All of a sudden it hinges on Russia's reaction? They have had about two years to give a damn. Didn't give a damn when it slid into Lebanon at all.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

Russia and China have been the two major holdouts against intervention in the UN this whole time. I think the USA corp(se)oRATists were hoping that the UN would intervene - as that would not require USA public support - and - the MIC would still be selling plenty of arms.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Yes. They are holding out. I think the US definitely wanted the UN to intervene. I understand why Russia and China would not play along.

Not every nation can be a US client state. Some of them are going to be Russian and Chinese client states.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

There ya go - so much more difficult for the players involved to figure out what they are gonna do - since - I mean - that - we are all playing NICE now.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

I doubt that there is anyone playing nice.

But, if this was really all about saving lives then they would have already done (as said by Facts) stopped that oil supply for a good week. It would have been done and over with.

But, that wasn't useful. If Assad is right (and even if he isn't) and the US has decided to wreak havoc in his country then this is a chess game. Similar to the others. If the US goes in then there will be war for many years. Not directly with Russia and China but indirectly through continued proxy wars. Many more will die.

So, if this was really about saving lives and people really gave a fuck-they would pull their heads out of their asses and stop the oil. Negotiations and resolving internal issues can be dealt with all parties involved after the shit stops.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

Stop the oil stop the arms sales send in equipment for clean cheap electricity and for clean water and for clean transportation and and and

But no - this is not the game they want to play. Insane assholes.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Just stop the oil. See, I lay money that you could go to the IMF website and locate the plan for Syria. It's probably been up there for several years.

Just stop the oil, let Russia step in, and stop the shit. Syria is a client state of Russia. Israel is a client state of the US. Iraq is a client state of the US.

What all of this shit boils down to is.....how much do you (not you personally) value human life? Walk the talk. Man up.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

It " ALL " is truly insane as currently there is no need for further fossil fuel extraction. We ( the world ) have the technology to implement full scale TODAY that would eliminate the need for any fossil fuel.

So - with this ability and no loss of prosperity. WHY THE FUCK IS ALL OF THIS NEEDLESS KILLING AND STRIFE GOING ON ???

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

DKA, we could become completely independent tomorrow morning at 6AM. It isn't important that we need the oil. It is important that we control the oil that everyone else needs.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

It is GREED plain and simple - Greed for power and control. It is not important that "we" ( you and I and joe down the block ) control but some insane asshole with a severe case of megalomania ( yes there is more than one such asshole - hence the endless strife- within each country and country to country ). This/These insane assholes need followers to keep their crap functioning. The truly sad thing is - we could lock em all up - throw away the key - BUT - for some UNFATHOMABLE reason - WE HAVE NOT.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Westerners are greedy bastards. The facebook generation is going to be one of the worst in world history. Watch out for those teenagers who are posting pictures of themselves and fishing for compliments 24/7. Its how tyrants are created.

[-] -3 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Yes there is. We just seem to be very highly concentrated for some reason.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (348) 0 minutes ago

Not saying it is, we just seem to embrace it more as society than most imo. Communism was our biggest "enemy" for a very long time.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Who's biggest enemy? Not mine - not the average person on the street - NO - just those in power. BTW it was and is the same for them.

It has always been the battle of the insane greedy megalomaniacs of the world - and each respective population the victims/cannon fodder.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

OH PLEASE - whip yourself if you want - but Greed megalomania insanity are not a captured market by the west - not by any stretch of the imagination.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Not saying it is, we just seem to embrace it more as society than most imo. Communism was our biggest "enemy" for a very long time.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

The US is a client state of Israel. Its important we understand that if we are going to be able to determine what is going on on a global scale.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

pat pat pat

Sssshhh............... The adults are talking.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

You may be older than I but none the wiser.

Ya, shut off the oil, that wont lead to immediate war in a heart beat. ugh. Want another Pearl Harbor?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

Just don't buy the shit for a week, drama queen.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (348) 2 minutes ago

Westerners are greedy bastards. The facebook generation is going to be one of the worst in world history. Watch out for those teenagers who are posting pictures of themselves and fishing for compliments 24/7. Its how tyrants are created.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

OMG - REALLY??? - Just westerners??? - the reality " IS " that there are Insane GREEDY Megalomaniacs all over the world.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

The wild card could be China. They need that pipeline, port and Iranian oil very much so.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

They get plenty of fossil fuel from the USA - I am thinking that both Russia and China will settle for negotiating with whatever government arises out of the Syrian mess.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

I wasnt aware we were exporting energy to them. Natural gas, coal or oil?

Right now they control the government there is theres entirely. I think maybe if we go in and they stand back, we have reached an agreement.

If we dont go in at all, its because they called us out and we are finally dysfunctional enough that we have to listen to other people.

THe IMF states that China will be the #1 economy in the world in 2016. There is going to be a point in the near future where our country, for the first time in anyones memory, wants to do something and another country told them no, and we have no choice but to listen.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

Millions of tons of coal for one - the USA is now also exporting LNG and Oil - how much of that goes to China? I do not know.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

That site has a chart on coal exports. Almost 1/3 goes to "other" , my guess is thats on china.

Although according to this, we only did a few tons last year: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/22/science/earth/22fossil.html?pagewanted=all

Looking into this stuff right now, one things for sure. Anyone who thinks theres environmentalists in this country making policy has been duped.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Heres a good chart I just found on gas exports and imports, its interactive about half way down.

http://www.eia.gov/naturalgas/importsexports/annual/#tabs-supply-2

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 months ago

NPR is owned by wall street

they say so in their ads

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

pat pat pat

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 months ago

the first patting i expected

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 7 months ago

pat pat pat

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

It's an anarchists view that seems to be avoided in this entire mess.

I also found his description of the media creating an illusion of duopoly, interesting to say the least.

"So yes, the mainstream coverage always tries to portray people as belonging to some kind of binary. But the Syrian revolution erupted as people demanding self-determination from the one party that was denying it to them: the regime of Bashar al Assad. As time passed, other actors came onto the scene who also denied Syrians their self-determination, even some who fought against the regime. But the position was never simply to be against the regime for the sake of being against the regime, just as I presume that in Egypt, our comrades' position is not being against the Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood] for the sake of being against the Ikhwan. The regime took self-determination away from the people, and any removal of the regime that results in replacing it with someone else who will dominate Syrians should not be seen as a success. As in Egypt, when the Ikhwan came to power, those who considered them an affront to the revolution, even if they weren't felool [Mubarak loyalists], kept repeating the slogan "al thawra mustamera" ["the revolution continues"]. So too will it be in Syria if, after the regime is gone, a party comes to power that also denies Syrians their right to determine their own destiny."

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I'll bet no one around here read even the first paragraph.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

The propaganda is so much easier to find and understand.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I've long ago learned to expect it.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

It's usually the first 2 or 3 things you see on any given subject, although it can go a whole lot deeper .

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 months ago

I'll still haven't read the senate resolution for US attacks on Syria

I wouldn't vote for it based on bullshit level

[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

The real question is, does it even matter?

It's a telling interview, You should read it.

"If the strikes end up being tougher than what is currently being discussed, for one reason or another, and they do make a significant change on the battlefield, or do significantly weaken the Assad regime, then I think the potential negative effects will be different. I think this will lead to a future Syrians won't have a hand in determining. The US may not like Assad, but they have many times expressed that they believe that regime institutions should remain intact in order to ensure stability in a future Syria. In short, as many have noted, the US wants "Assadism without Assad." They want the regime without the figure of Assad, just like what they got in Egypt, when Mubarak stepped down but the "deep state" of the military remained, and just like what happened in Yemen where the US negotiated for the president to step down but for everything to remain largely the same. The problem with this is Syrians chanted, "The People Demand the Downfall of the Regime," not just Assad. There is consensus across the board, from US to Russia to Iran, that no matter what happens in Syria, regime institutions should remain intact. The same institutions that were built by the dictatorship. The same institutions that plundered Syria and provoked the popular discontent that started this uprising. The same institutions that are merely the remnants of French colonialism. Everyone in Syria knows that the US's preferred candidates for leadership roles in any future Syria are those Syrians who were part of the regime and then defected: Ba'athist bureaucrats turned neoliberal technocrats turned "defectors." These are the people the US would have rule Syria."

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

"I also found his description of the media creating an illusion of duopoly, interesting to say the least."

You completely misunderstood that. The duopoly is the one that creates the binary view. Two options, pitted against each other.

"So yes, the mainstream coverage always tries to portray people as belonging to some kind of binary"

" The regime took self-determination away from the people, and any removal of the regime that results in replacing it with someone else who will dominate Syrians should not be seen as a success."

Seem like a familiar situation?

  • OCCUPYTHEWORLD
[-] 2 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

What about your membership in the soap opera of the banned?

Are gangland style attacks on individuals in your manual?

Isn't that you own personal duopoly?

Why yes.

It is.

Why do shirk those questions asked of you?

PS, you missed the part where it describes that as an illusion of the media.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

: It is about Syrians being able to determine their own destinies not in the nationalist sense, but in the micro-political sense. So for example, Syrian self-determination doesn't mean one track which all the Syrians follow, but each person determining their own track, without others interfering."

What do you think of that?

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Please butcher the article some more. Lets see where they describe the media binary as an illusion. Just you making shit up again. Its probably right next to your "promise to run candidates!!"

"anarchists seem something of signature voice against two unsatisfactory poles within mainstream coverage - a voice preoccupied with self-determination. Is that a fair understanding? Yes, I believe it is, but I would clarify a few things, as well."

" Also, this iteration of self-determination is based on autonomy and decentralization, not Wilsonian notions of "one people" with some kind of nationalist, centralized self-determination. "

More talk of decentralization. Must be a tea bagger movement!! hahahahaha.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Did you follow the money in N. Carolina yet, shirker?

Are you not the butcher of bar room fights?

Yes you are, shirker.

How does your belief in gangland activities around here work into the rest of your lies?

Lies........................Your area of expertize.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Have any proof of what you stated? Or just more lies?

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Did you follow the money in N. Carolina yet?

It was your mouth that wrote that check.

Nope. You didn't.

That's all the proof I need.

Coupled with all the rest of your unanswered questions?

There's little of the truth about you.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

I'm sticking up for what I thought was a very good post. You seem to be slandering it with:

"It's an anarchists view that seems to be avoided in this entire mess. I also found his description of the media creating an illusion of duopoly, interesting to say the least."

And I will say that I do enjoy conversations, I think the four of you are horribly misguided in your statements that Im a Koch loving right winger, but regardless if you are going to achieve anything at all politically, you have to be able to speak to people whom you dont like politically.

Dont have to hug them, but you cant blast their entire life, threaten to break their legs, tell them they worship the Koch Brothers, etc.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20529) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

you are a lyin fuker

otherwise you would have signed the chomsky petition. You aren't real and come bearing an agenda.

piss off

[-] 0 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

I'll take that for another no, you didn't cash the check your mouth wrote.

You never do, shirker.

As usual, all you have are attempts at insult.

Not a word of truth, or understanding.

Just like you constantly shirk your involvement with the soap opera of the banned. Even refusing to acknowledge it at all

There is nothing honest about you.

You should start answering the myriad questions asked of you, before you post anything more .

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

"PS, you missed the part where it describes that as an illusion of the media."

I honestly dont see that anywhere.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

That's because you've bought the illusion, hook line and sinker.

I mean honestly, you couldn't even follow the money in N. Carolina,.

How in the hell can you be expected to follow something half way around the world?

You can't.

You're not honest enough.

[-] 2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

There is no illusion of duopoly. Its very real. We have two seemingly different entities each saying they can lead us to the promise land, each that has a thousand different reasons and excuses as to why it never happens.

When you figure in how a two party-divide and conquer system works, its very obvious.

This does a good job of laying it out in very easy to understand terms of how the system is set up to function with each side having to only lobby a little bit every. single. time.

http://www.occucards.com/republicrats/

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Following the money in N. Carolina!!

Thoughts?

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

"Syria: Challenging the Binary View"

Try to stay on topic.

[-] -2 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

I followed it. Know what it was doing when I found it? That's right. Shirking!

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

No, I'm looking for something in the article that resembles how you smeared it.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26709) 7 months ago

Did you follow the money in N. Carolina yet, shirker?

Nope. You're to busy trying to smear me....again.

How about that gang you belong you.

Wanna talk about it, and what they, along with you have done?

Nope, You're to busy avoiding the simplest of questions and bending the simplest of truths.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/libertarianism-the-true-history/

There is no duopoly.

It was invented to fool you.

It worked too.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

"How about that gang you belong you. Wanna talk about it, and what they, along with you have done?"

Care to explain on that one?

You stated that something about the article, I didnt see it anywhere in it. I dont think that means you go biserk as usual and start freaking out.

You seem to have a very strong will to seek out actual occupiers and get them to emotionally snap. 21k comments is a lot of comments for one individual.

[-] -1 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you were Jay Z, you'd rap that "somewhere in America Miley Cyrus is still shirkin'"

[-] -1 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you were a spicy Caribbean dish that's flavored with allspice, soy sauce, and sugar, you'd be Shirk Chicken.

[-] -1 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you made an independent film about NJ slackers, it would be called Shirks

[-] -1 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you were an Australian '80's band, you'd be Men at Shirk

[-] -1 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you were a starship captain, you'd be James Tiberius Shirk.

[-] -1 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you were in Boogie Nights, your name would be Shirk Diggler.

[-] -2 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you were a short story by H. P. Lovecraft about an evil in the Catskills, you'd be The Shirking Fear.

[-] -2 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you were a Greek demigod forced to perform 12 mighty labors, you'd be Shirkules

[-] -2 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you hosted Wild On! on the E! network from 1999–2002, you'd be Brooke Shirk.

[-] -2 points by broncoze (-126) 7 months ago

If you were an NYC restaurant famed throughout the world, you'd be Le Shirk

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[+] -4 points by pullmyfinger33 (-37) 7 months ago

The only reason you liberals are against the war is because you are racists who hate our black president. Get your KKK hoods on you black haters.