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Forum Post: Senator Says Politics Have Reached Civil War Levels

Posted 6 months ago on Sept. 27, 2013, 6:29 p.m. EST by Narley (-634)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Senator Says Politics Have Reached Civil War Levels.

As the clock ticks down toward a possible government shutdown, Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, isn't holding back. On the Senate floor before 10 a.m. Friday, the senator gave a speech describing how American politics have reached the level at which "a small group of willful men and women who have a certain ideology"—read: the tea party and Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas—have been able to take over the congressional budget debate in the last week. "Since they can't get their way," Harkin said, "they're going to create this confusion and discourse and hope that the public will be so mixed up in who is to blame for this, that they'll blame both sides." This isn't just congressional business as usual, Harkin said. It's much, much more dire: It's dangerous. It's very dangerous. I believe, Mr. President, we are at one of the most dangerous points in our history right now. Every bit as dangerous …. http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/senator-says-politics-have-reached-civil-war-levels-20130927

I believe the Senator is correct. I would even go further and say the American people are so strongly divided that wide spread violence is possible if it continues the current course. The hate between the varying ideologies seems to be reaching a level we probably haven’t reached before. It’s more than heated debate. It comes across as pure unadulterated hate for those whose don’t agree who you. I visit several internet forums, both liberal and conservative. The hate I hear borders on vicious, I mean just pure hate.

So my question is can the people work things out before we come to blows? Is it really possible for us to stop hating long enough to just talk to each other. Just my two cents.

49 Comments

49 Comments


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[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21783) 6 months ago

Well, you're gonna have to leave the land of denial.

You're going to have to take the online PR firms and kick their asses so hard that they don't come around.

You ready to do that?

[-] -1 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

Yea, I'm ready. If you really mean "PR" firms, then they're just inventive liars. A good wup ass might be in order.

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

After thinking about it for a few minutes I retract my "yes" response posted a few minutes ago. Taking out a few talking heads won't affect how people think and feel. Our differences are too far apart to fix so easily. Kicking someones ass will just exacerbate the problem.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 6 months ago

Suit yourself. Stay in denial.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

No, it is not possible. I have commented on this before. Repelicans are locked in on the basis of what they have already said and done. The only solution left is for the killing to begin.

I'm ready.

How about you?

[-] -1 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

I doubt a shooting war will come about. There aren’t clear enough geographical lines. Such a scenario would be more like neighbor against neighbor. However, I think a fracturing of society could happen. Things like States seceding from the union. Different localized government models occurring and strong arm takeover of some government entities.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I have addressed this issue before

Any attempt to bridge the existing gap between liberals and conservatives must begin with a clear understanding of the way in which fiscal conservatism enables both greed and social darwinism.

This kind of enabling has direct and horrendous public consequence as may be demonstrated throughout history.

This absolute and demonstrable certainty leads to an abundance of dishonesty, deceit, and machinations of outright cunning, in an effort to protect what gains conservatives have made over time with regard to public policy, and to public perception.

One must take very very careful note: Long after FDR guided this nation from the depths of depression, the Dust Bowl produced by thoughtless land use practices, and the calamity of Global Conflagration . . . he remains vilified by the one percent.

[+] -5 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

In your "clear understanding" scenario you ask the conservatives to abandon their basic principals. They will never do so. Whatever happened to give and take on solving our problems? Are we so arrogant to think our way is the only way and we can't work with those with whom we disagree?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

are you fukin high?

they cannot even base policy on facts and reality.

PNAC conservatives took this nation into a war of aggression.

then disbanded the infrastructure that could have insured stability

resulting in death and destruction spanning a decade and more - the violence in Iraq continues even now.

and that does not even begin to address the myriad problems in this country conservatives refuse to address.

THE BASTARDS SHOULD ALL BE SHOT. IN THE HEAD.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 6 months ago

Who was behind every hideous event going as far back as you want to go?Right Wing Wack Jobs-that's who.Operation Gladio?Right Wing Wack Jobs.Red Brigades?Same.Aldo Moro?Same.Coup after coup after horrible bloody coup-Right Wing Wack Jobs.Iran-Contra-death squads,death squads,death squads,"babies dumped out of incubators"false flags like Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11,mass death of innocent people in every corner of the planet,orchestrated by the same bunch of Wealthy White Guys.Where do they come from,to do these bloody deeds of murder,extortion,mass slavery,drug dealing,torture,theft on the most massive scale&c.&c...They come from Wall Street.They enter the government-then back to Wall Street.Then back to government to perpetrate more frauds,murders,extortions,coup d'etats-then back Home to Wall Street to Launder mo' money.Any examination of these criminalities of the Deep State...The same names come up time and again.Only death seems to stop this activity.If you tried to imprison this type of criminal,I can't quite believe they wouldn't somehow get out and pick right up where they left off.I guess the decent thing would be to try to contain them in a SHU or something...after all,nice people are opposed to the death penalty-aren't they? Oh-and why can't any of these crimes EVER even be investigated?Garden Variety Republicans won't allow it.Because they think killing peasants,trade unionists,socialists,college students,communists,indigenous people &c.,is not really a crime,I guess.I'm only hanging on to watch The Evil Wealthy White Guys go down-hope I live long enough!

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

So you think shooting them is the solution? You can’t be serious. You know better. You’re just talking mad.

This thread is my attempt to reduce the hate. We will never be able change things unless we somehow learn to talk to each other without threatening, belittling and hating each other. If we continue we this way we are going to cause millions upon millions of people will suffer because of someone’s ideology. We’re talking about people’s lives, well being and security. Isn’t it worth the effort to at least attempt to work with others. If we can’t do this we are doomed to be a nation torn literally apart.

As for your comment in your original post. Yes I am ready. Locked and loaded actually. You?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

You do not understand. I'm actually quite serious. Conservative hate has killed and maimed several individuals in some high profile instances just within the last few years - but the fact is this has been going on for over two millenia

the fact is millions upon millions already are suffering

THE FACT IS THE ENTIRE HUMAN SPECIES IS AT RISK OF COMPLETE EXTINCTION

and you fukers can't even admit the planet is getting warmer

There is really nothing to say. Nothing to debate. Nothing to negotiate. The suggestion is mere silliness.

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

That makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution. You get that don't you?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Am I? I'm not at all convinced of that.

I think any compromise with conservatives is nothing less than a return to September 30, 1938, and the Munich Appeasement.

You fukers aren't going to stop, it isn't in you.

Conservatives will continue to lie, to cheat, and to steal, until the American public is broken and destitute. You people just dont' know any better.

And what I do know, with abundant certainty

  • IS THAT CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN LYING A LONG TIME, AND NOW THEY ARE TRAPPED BY THEIR LIES. THEY CANNOT NOW GO BACK. THEY CANNOT NOW TELL THE TRUTH. THEY HAVE COMMITMENTS. THEY ARE COMMITTED TO LIES.

Do you get that?

they are committed.

they have no choice.

they are trapped.

they will drag this nation down with them

if they can

fuk them

And I am, indeed, quite serious.

fuk them

.

here, do me a favor will ya?

hold this cement block for me for just a sec . . .

.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 months ago

When you consider some death penalty cases - well - are there any where more people have been killed? Just in the name of greed?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I don't follow

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 months ago

When you look at cases where individuals have been convicted and sentenced to death - and then are subsequently executed. I don't think you could add all of their victims together ( even including the miscarriage of justice cases ) and make a scratch on the deaths caused by the insane greedy and their lackeys.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

conservatism is a very strange disease

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 months ago

Taken too far - you bet - because I believe in conserving the environment and similar such things. But it seems that one can go down that road into madness - then they are not trying to save the environment - but instead are going for pulling out every resource as fast as they can - to control it FOR SALE - and to hell with whether or not the planet is still livable.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 6 months ago

And by we, you mean you.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Did I mention Global Warming? I don't think I mentioned Global Warming. I should have mentioned Global Warming.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21783) 6 months ago

Well, homelessness, religion, unions, auto industry etc. It's wide open territory.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 6 months ago

I agree.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 months ago

Zen I really think that you should mention global warming - as discussing it sure does not seem to educate some. {:-])

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I'll be sure to try to slip it in

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 months ago

Good Man - it's just not like you to miss something like that - ah well no harm done. {:-]) By the momentary oversight - not Global warming - plenty of damage done there with much more to come. F'n insane greedy assholes.

[+] -4 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

No, I mean we. I said exactly what I meant.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 6 months ago

You have no intention of give and take. You mean as long as someone else is doing the giving.

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

No, I was actually arguing against such a mindset.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21783) 6 months ago

Congratulations on your personal self discovery. Now that you have identified your problem The next step is for you to stop presenting that mindset.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 months ago

True true GF - they say real progress can not be made without personal realization - now it seems it needs to work on acceptance of the realization.

[-] -1 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

Well thank you. Always trying to improve myself.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21783) 6 months ago

Great job. Looking forward to your personal evolution in the forthcoming debates on issues.

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

OK, now this is getting weird. Is shooz about to jump out and yell BOO?

[-] 2 points by shooz (26731) 6 months ago

You want me to?

You don't much like dealing with the levels of truth I throw at you.

You usually accuse me of angry, while call for the complete dissolution of a major American city, while you ignore the fact that Texas, just resently allowed one of it's to blow up.

But if you want me to, I'll review the thread and offer my thoughts................:)

Just say the word.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

and then Instead of confronting the reality of where they had taken this nation, this entire world - In light of the evidence:

  • of Iraq

  • of the collapse of the financial sector

  • and the undeniable fact of Global Warming

given the peaceful demand for sweeping reform that did echo from sea to shining sea

what is the conservative response?

  • more lies, more disinformation, more denial, more direct efforts to sabotage the economy FOR PURELY POLITICAL GAIN AND FOR SPITE,

not to mention direct efforts to crush OWS.

Nice work.

[-] -1 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes time to get problems this imbedded fixed. The best way is to rally the masses. They are the real force for change. At the very least a generation or two that doesn't have the old way of thinking.

The impatient alternative is your way of "kill them all and let god sort it out". It just won't work.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

The impatient alternative is your way of "kill them all and let god sort it out". It just won't work.

perhaps not, but it does make me feel better. some of my friends are dead.

[-] -1 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

My friends have also died. Two in Vietnam in my company. That's the biggest reason I'm so anti-war and anti-violence. There is a special place in hell for the politicians who send our sons and daughters to war. Violence doesn't make you feel better.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

you can't be conservative and be anti war

in the U.S. these are diametrically opposed positions - unless

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

I'm not conservative, and I'm probably one of the most anti-war people you're likely to meet. And Ron Paul is a nut job, but he's right on some things.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20544) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

umm, lets see . . . what do we have . . . . HERE

.


[-] -1 points by Narley (-604) 1 hour ago

No, I mean we. I said exactly what I meant.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink


.

and that does appear to have been in response to THIS

.


.

[-] -3 points by Narley (-604) 1 hour ago

In your "clear understanding" scenario you ask the conservatives to abandon their basic principals. They will never do so. Whatever happened to give and take on solving our problems? Are we so arrogant to think our way is the only way and we can't work with those with whom we disagree?

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21065) 1 hour ago

And by we, you mean you.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

.


.

so it would appear we have a small discrepancy

.

and even a broken clock is right twice a day - that doesn't make it useful

[-] 1 points by DahliaD (0) 6 months ago

Did you or did you not vote for Ted Cruz based upon his demagoguing gun control?

[-] 0 points by IrishRevolt (5) 6 months ago

Not enough people care in this country for that to happen. All of their media hoopla is just that, hoopla.

But there is a small group on each side that is filled with hate, thats for sure. But they are in the very small minority.

Keep in mind everyone is a loud mouth on the internet.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

Excellent point. But (If) conditions worsen more and more people may become radicalized. But you're right, it will probably never happen.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 6 months ago

FLAKESnews, Limbaugh, Beck, Jones, Nugent, LaPierre, the Paul's and how many more late night, right wing bullshitters?

There's who's fomenting this divide.

Can you name a few more for us?

[-] 1 points by IrishRevolt (5) 6 months ago

With the current theft going on right now, and a deteriorating food/air/water supply, the people show no sign of changing their ways.

The politicians realize this, and each side of this pathetic isle realizes it needs to keep its base energized and attacking the other, otherwise its "all eyes on them" and their records, at which point they lose their voters.

Its tough enough getting them off the couch to come help with actions that are directly in front of them. Getting them to take arms and engage in physical conflict could be near impossible.

But there is that small percentage that are 100% sold that its that other small percentage to blame for all of the humanities woes.

I just dont see them being able to rally anyone to their cause, its pretty played out at this point.

The real radicals arent inspired by either of them.

Just my thoughts...

[-] 0 points by Narley (-634) 6 months ago

I visit several forums, both liberal and conservative. There is clearly a divide between the left and right that will take generations, if ever, to heal. I think it’s naive to think things are going get better in the short term. The politicians just reflect the attitudes of the people.

As for people taking up arms. It’s my experience that liberals display outrage, belittle the other side and generally express displeasure. The conservatives seem to be past the point of talking. They’re talking about the best AR-15 and survival strategies for when SHTF. It seem to be a foregone conclusion that we can’t fix the problems and the country will fail.

But as you say, everyone loudmouth and tough guy on the internet. There’s no way of knowing how it will play out.

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 6 months ago

Without free speech, not likely.

Do the divided know what the purpose of free speech is?