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Forum Post: Real Debate Tonight

Posted 8 years ago on Oct. 23, 2012, 5 p.m. EST by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

No, it wont be on CNN or FOX. If it was, the people who have a marginal understanding of what is going one would probably decide they are backing one of them. Not good for the power structure. They'd rather put two proven sellouts up there with no new ideas whatsoever.

It will however be on C-Span and should be starting around 9pm. Enjoy. It all starts with the people, and the people's efforts all start with the individual.

Where is your line in the sand? At what point do you say "I simply cannot tolerate that:....What does it take to get you from the sidelines to the front lines of change?

This is what democracy looks like.



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[-] 7 points by throaway (57) 8 years ago

"Wasting your vote is voting for somebody you don't believe in."

--Gary Johnson

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 8 years ago

That was a great moment of the debate, Johnson really killed it in his ending two minutes.

[-] -3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

Isn't Johnson a right wing wacko libertarian.?

Now voting for him would be like voting against your own interests and for corps. THAT is throwing away a vote. .

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 8 years ago

Isn't Obama a right wing democrat that bombs 6 countries in one term, 5 being in the last year, and brags about military spending increasing every year he's been in office, and has a foreign policy even Mitt Romney agrees with?

Both Obama and Romney love drones strikes and crippling civilians economies with sanctions because of WMD lies.

Just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean when they say 2 + 2 = 4 is false.

[-] -3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

I didn't mention Pres Obama. Did you mention him because you are an anti Obama partisan hack who only ever attacks one politician as an election campaign tactic to serve your republican puppet masters?

But since you mentioned I'll give you my opinion.

Pres Obama is a moderate.

He is ending all right wing military actions including drone strikes and the fear mongering war on terror.

He has resisted right wing war mongering pressure to invade Iran and will be holding talks with Iran over the objections of right wing wackos.

Ya wanna review the social, energy, regulation positions to beclear about who is right wing or not.?

Ha ha ha! Smokin! Somebody stop me!

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 8 years ago

I mentioned him because you're an Obama campaigner on this forum. I also equally mentioned Mitt Romney.

He's not ending drone strikes anytime soon.

He was fearmongering on monday night about the "Iranian threat" and him and Mittens actually agreed on how to deal with that threat... The threat is actually a lie. He then bragged about the largest military preparation for war with Iran in history happening this week.

It's fucking pathetic that him and Mittens essentially agree on foreign policy.

You can dispute your lies here where I've quoted the candidates on their agreements on foreign policy - http://occupywallst.org/forum/there-was-no-debate-on-foreign-policy/

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

He mentioned the largest military excercize with Israel to appease the right wing war mongers who've been smoked when he resisted their pressure to invade Iran.

He is not fear mongering, he is starting diplomatic talks that your right wing war mongers are squealing about.

He IS ending the drone strikes (from 120 in 2010 to 35 this year in Pakistan)

I am not an Obama campaigner. I simply challenge anti obama right wing partisan people who lie about Pres Obama.

I didn't mention him. YOU DID!


[-] -3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

And Pres Obama & Romney do NOT agree on foreign policy.

You gotta be a fuckin moron to believe that! Why? because of what you heard in the debate.?

Are you that naive?. Did you believe any of Romneys talk of Peace, and diplomacy? What a joke. Romney is the right wing war monger. Pres Obama is undoing all of the republican right wing war on terror military actions.

If you believed that show of Romneys to convince people he was for peace like Pres Obama you are an idiot.

[-] 5 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 8 years ago

Dude, I believe you are totally wrong on this front. I was appalled at how many times those two agreed. I believe the Daily Show with John Stewart did a great job of conceptualizing that debate. When it comes to voting for Obama or Romney, in regard to foreign policy, the only difference you get is the tie.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

Romney hid his right wing war mongering at that last debate because he was attempting to appeal to women. He dishonestly presented himself as a peace lover because he knows that many believe Pres Obama IS unraveling the right wing war on terror we've been subjected to.

So yeah there was lots of agreement because Romney lied through his teeth.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

That's right. With all his mistakes and failures he IS undoing the right wing war on terror military actions.

It could be done faster if the repub war mongerers were voted out & the American people protest against the remaining failures of our govt.

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 8 years ago

dude, gravity is less predictible than you

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 8 years ago

OOOO how clever. You should have your own show.

Replace war mongering conservatives w/ peace loving progressives, & protest for change that benefits the 99%.


[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23474) 8 years ago

It will also be on RT at 8 pm.


[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 8 years ago

I watched on 'rt' too. What a breath of fresh air that was!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23474) 8 years ago

It was very good. I agree. Much more in depth.

[-] 1 points by throaway (57) 8 years ago

Another debate next wk. You can watch it and go now to vote for which 3 you want to see next wk. One candidate will be dropped based on this voting which closes tomorrow.


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23474) 8 years ago

Very cool. Thanks.

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 8 years ago

Very Important Link !! Thank you 'ta' !!

[-] 4 points by john23 (-272) 8 years ago

Great debate....no gimmicky flags and crap floating in the background...no dodging the questions...honesty....real politics.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Alternative Presidential Debate also being broadcast on Al Jazeera World Wide & RT America & RT Online.

fiat lux ...

[+] -4 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 8 years ago

Al Jazeera.... I guess we see what side you are on...

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Worra Dolt ! You "guess" from ignorance, prejudice and with your possibly 'empty head' jammed up your probably 'fat (x)' !! Also, good luck with with getting your mind around the concept of 'Extraction' !!!

"Excluded from the presidential debates, ignored by the US media - why are third party candidates being sidelined ? How can US voters make an informed choice for president when most are not even aware who is on the ballot ?" So, have you got what it takes to watch it ?

temet nosce et fiat lux ...

[-] -2 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 8 years ago

We know why they are excluded. Duh! Most voters are not informed about anything. Why are you pretending otherwise?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Hey Mr. Numbnuts !! The point of contention was "Al Jazeera ... I guess we see what side you are on." !

WTF does THAT even mean anyway ?!

You should've "excluded" your head from your (x) & you'd've made more (tho still very little) sense !!

You can now stop "pretending" that you have any idea whatsoever ... about anything at all actually !!!

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 0 points by throaway (57) 8 years ago

Actually, it shows to what lengths our media is in bed with the 2 party system.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

In bed with? - Ummm can U say major buyer/renter?

[+] -6 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 8 years ago

And what "bed" is Al Jazeera in?

[-] 1 points by throaway (57) 8 years ago

I don;t know much about Al J besides the obvious, but it says to me that they try to report all news and are not controlled like our media is.

[+] -5 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 8 years ago

And if you don't know much about them then how you make those claims? Not controlled? Really now.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 8 years ago

Green Party schedule of events for festival this upcoming Saturday:


Dan Diaz juggles through out the park all day...

Shelter 1

9:00 - 10:15 am OPEN SPACE

10:30 - 11:15 am: 33 Years of Community Radio: The History of WMNF and Why Independent Media is Important to Democracy -Rob Lorei

WMNF 88.5FM was started by a small band of dreamers in 1979- some barely out of college. Members of the established media said it would never survive in West Central Florida- the area was too conservative to support a radio station modeled after community radio stations in Berkeley, New York, Dayton, Los Angeles, Washington DC, and Madison. WMNF got on the air against all odds- it had little funding, its transmission cable was struck by lightning and destroyed a few days after getting its FCC license in 1979 and there was no history of a successful community radio station in Florida. Since then WMNF has grown from having hundreds of members to having nearly 9,000. Its signal reaches more than 3.3 million people in the Bay area. The four streams of programming on WMNF serve audiences that are underserved by the commercial media. WMNF has a history of providing information that is often ignored by the mainstream media. How did the folks at WMNF build this institution? And what's next for the station? Come and see as one of WMNF's co-founders- Rob Lorei gives a 45 minute talk and leads a discussion about independent media

11:30 - 1:00 pm: RNC 2012 Protest Forum - Bruce Wright, Kelly Benjamin, Panagioti Tsolkas

Come and hear from an array of protest organizers around the 2012 Republican National Convention in Tampa, Fl. These organizers will share their stories, compare this RNC with past years, and analysis the alarming trends they see. Learn about Romneyville, 99% Marches, and even surprise non-violent direct actions at the local coal power plant.

1:15 - 2:15 pm: Screen Printing - Emily Miller of WhiskeyDog PrintsShop

Come learn how you design and draft your own patterns, then hand cut your own silkscreen images. Learn more about how you can use recycled, and upcycled materials to make amazingly stylish clothing.

2:15 - 4:00 pm: Urban Growers Forum w/Q&A -Jessica Arkwright

Come join the founder of Farm to Fork Organics and Edge Farmers Market as she hosts a round-table discussion with local backyard growers. Glean advice as they share there stories of how to start a local farmers market, de-bunk the myths of what folks "can/can't" grow and/or sell at home and in community gardens, raising chickens and goats for profit, microgreens, urban fruit forests and vertical gardens.

Shelter 2

9:00 -10:15 am: Healthy Relationships - Linda Osmundson

Come learn about local work to support relationships based on trust, respect, and mutual support.

10:30 - 11:30 am: Awakening the Dreamer - Douglas Bonar

“Awakening the Dreamer, Changing the Dream” module will summarize the key elements of the longer symposium of the same name. The goal of this module is to show the interconnectedness between our search for environmental sustainability, spiritual fulfillment, and social justice. By means of poignant videos, participants in this module will get a taste of the empowerment that accompanies the realization that our worldview has been centered in a mistaken dream of the modern world. The challenge before us all is to awaken from, and change, that dream which has been centered on the consumptive exploitation of human, material, and energy resources.

11:45 -12:45 pm: Alternatives to Violence Project - Darrel Hefte

Come learn about the work of AVP/USA in prisons, schools, and communities offering experiential workshops in personal growth, creative conflict management, and responses to violence. AVP is dedicated to reducing the level of violence in our society. Our goal is to reduce the level of violence by introducing people to ways of resolving conflict that reduce their need to resort to violence as the solution. The Alternatives to Violence Project is designed to create successful personal interactions and transform violent situations. We're dedicated to teaching the same non-violent skills and techniques that were used by Mohandas Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

1:00 -2:15 pm: Backyard Chickens - Gary Crosby

2:30 - 4:00 pm: The Politics of Courage vs. the Politics of Fear - Michael Canney

Join this active discussion and informative workshop about why "lesser evil" voting strategies are self defeating. Learn why we need an independent, progressive political party, and why it is important to support the campaign of Jill Stein and Cheri Honkala.

Shelter 4

9:00 -10 :00 am: GMO’s - TBA

Genetically modified organisms are in your food. Most likely, you unknowingly eat them everyday. We will talk about the health and environmental effects of GMO’s. GMO’s are not currently labeled so Rebecca will share a list of the foods which are GM and talk about how to avoid eating them and how to stop supporting their use by buying them.

10:15-11:00 am: Permaculture: Restoring Natural Abundance - Bill Bilodeau

The earth and the elements are naturally fully abundant. By designing our human activities in harmony with nature we too can all experience abundance. Hear what a local permaculture group is doing to regenerate sustainable living in our city and how you can participate. Learn how to seriously catch rainwater. See a demonstration of how to create a sheet mulched growing bed for abundant fruits and vegetables. See and learn about some perennial vegetables and edible shrubs which can make gardening easier and more diverse.

11:15 - 12:15 pm: Humans and Honey Bees - TBA

Rebecca will share the importance of honey bees in our lives and local environment. In our urban world honey bees connect us with the flowers and life around us. She will talk about how you can take a direct role in connecting with the world through honey bees. Since humans and honey bees have a long and intertwined history she believes that having them around you is intrinsically beneficial.

12:30 - 2:00 pm: Banners in Direct Action - Tyler Mitchell

Come learn about how banners are used in direct action, from the basic banner at a Direct Action to being the Direct Action itself as interruptions, hanging from buildings, cranes, and bridges. So here local stories about there use recently and in the past.

2:15 - 4:00 pm: No System but the Ecosystem: Exploring the past, present and future of the Earth First! movement.

  • Editors of Earth First! Journal

Hear from activists on the front lines of the ecological resistance, from occupying blockades and sabotaging machines to grassroots organizing and producing independent media. Discuss the history of environmental direct action. Analyze the potential future of a movement dedicated to stopping the expansion of industrial civilization. Find out how you can get involved. This presentation includes photo, a talk and maybe even a game show, hosted by editors of the Earth First! Journal, a movement publication in print over 30 years.

Tent Area

9:00 -10:00 am: Awake the State (Awake Pinellas) - Christian Hass

Learn about Awake Pinellas, Pinellas county chapter for the Awake the State movement. Awake Pinellas' mission is to communicate and organize with local citizens about social and economic issues in Pinellas county and Greater Florida. A joint project between Progress Florida, Florida Watch Action and America Votes, has locally manifested in the St. Petersburg as the Peoples Budget Review.

10:15-11:00 am: Nicaragua after the Contra War - Melissa Ajabshir

Learn about ProNica, the international Quaker non-profit organization with 25 years serving Nicaraguan project partners in health, education, agriculture, and community development.

11:00 am: Wild Edible and Medicinal Plants in the Park - Bob Linde (Meet at Tent Area, then through out the Park)

Join local alternative health expert, Bob Linde as he shares his vast knowledge of herbalism and local edible plants during a hike around the park exploring the flora.

[-] 1 points by NVPHIL (664) 8 years ago

Just finished watching the debate and I must say Rocky Anderson was on fire. Jill Stein had great ideas, especially the amendment saying money is not speech and rolling back the laws violating our rights that our gov has put in place since 9/11. Gary Johnson had a good performance and seems like a good choice for conservatives. Virgil Goode on the other hand just seemed like more of the same when it comes to Washington politicians.

[-] 1 points by mindscrape69 (6) 8 years ago

A very simple but profound answer will be determined by the amount of comments generated by this bog. In general though the American people have been dazzled and memorized by mass media. Like many of those science fiction movies where some of us have been handed a pair of unique glasses so as to see the "reality " of what is really going on. While the mass walk about clueless , convinced that everything is just "A" OK . I know because when I make these things clear to people they will argue with me. They will tell me not to believe or read everything on the internet. While trying to patronize me with the I know better than you routine they themselves march lock step to another mass media like FOX news or the print media. Then there are those Gems , like the sanctimonious hypocritical magazines like Psychology Today who create this false sense of Authority , who tell YOU how to think. And in case you need to be intimidated into being afraid of thinking for yourself the articles are replete with comprehensive references to full names and titles ( like PHD , not that I am knocking a good education ) and of course a renown ivy league University . These references often times use up about 75% of the article. On a serious note though , most of the advice can come from other legitimate sources like your grand mother or your priest. We need to wake up . Think for ourselves and then see clearly what needs to be done.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 8 years ago

Democracy should never be limited. It should be celebrated. There should be no registereing, it should come to every person here.

Imagine if every 18 yo were presented with a list of all the political parties in their state, and started to do their homework? That would probably help us.


[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 8 years ago

Vote for who you thought did best. Im not a big Virgil fan, but I do appreciate him showing up and expanding the ideas and discussion


[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 8 years ago

I cant imagine why Obama and Romney didnt want to attend and get their facsts straight?

[+] -4 points by Grimreaper2 (-318) 8 years ago

Okay. What is your point?