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Forum Post: NEw Depression on way Due to GOP tax giveaway to wealthy and corporation! THROW the BUMS OUT!

Posted 4 weeks ago on Nov. 17, 2017, 8:53 p.m. EST by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ
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198 Comments


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[-] 3 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 23 hours ago

MOTHERFUCKERS did it! COrporate giveaway, That Adds to the deficit, stealing from kids.

MOTHERFUCKERS

Stealing from my kids and grandkids, the sinners! http://www.businessinsider.com/senate-gop-tax-plan-obamacare-corporate-rate-2017-11

True colors shing

[-] 3 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 22 hours ago
[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

An Open Letter to the U.S. Congress by Sanders Institute,

Both the House and the Senate have passed versions of a GOP tax plan. According to analyses from the Tax Policy Center, the CBO and numerous economists, both plans overwhelmingly benefit the wealthiest people in this country, and both will result in the loss of health insurance for some 13 million Americans. Meanwhile, research warns that millions will face higher taxes and a spike in their health insurance premiums in the years ahead. And there isn’t a single credible study that supports the claim that either of these tax plans will deliver the kind of economic growth — with higher wages and substantially more jobs — the GOP is touting to sell their plan.

In response to a plethora of criticism, and to defend their wild growth projections, Republicans recently circulated a letter, claiming to show that the economic community was backing their plan. What you may not know is that this letter was put together by a corporate advocacy group called the RATE Coalition and, as it turns out, some of the 137 signatories weren’t even economists.

A portion of their letter reads: "Economic growth will accelerate if the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act passes, leading to more jobs, higher wages, and a better standard of living for the American people."

Let us be clear. This is not what most economists believe. Tax cuts that create economic growth start at the bottom, not at the top.

That is why my colleagues, John T. Harvey, Fadhel Kaboub, and I drafted our own statement and circulated it among professional economists. In the last 48 hours, more than 200 Ph.D. economists have added their names to our open letter. We hope that you will read what we have to say and pass along our message. It’s not too late to make the current bill into something that could deliver on the promise of more robust growth, high wages and a new era of prosperity for all Americans.

Thank you for staying engaged, Stephanie Kelton, Professor of Public Policy and Economics at Stony Brook University, and Sanders Institute Founding Fellow

DONATE »

December 4, 2017 An Open Letter to the U.S. Congress The tax plan will have disastrous consequences for the American people Dear Senators and Representatives:

The current tax plan will prove ineffective at best. More likely, it will further the collapse of wages and widen the already dangerous levels of income and wealth inequality that have become so obvious that both political parties referenced them during the 2016 presidential campaign. Our central problem is not insufficient profits for corporations. Consumers, not employers, are the real job creators and cutting the corporate tax rate won’t jumpstart the economy. The key to getting businesses to hire and invest is to swamp them with demand for their products, something that is accomplished by raising the incomes of the poor and the middle-class and not those at the very top of the income distribution. Unfortunately, not only have the former faced stagnating wages and unemployment, but they are burdened by mortgage debt, credit card debt, student debt, and payday loan debt. Little wonder this has been the weakest recovery in the post-World War Two era.

Cut taxes for the poor and the middle class and we will see an increase in wages and the creation of the kind of full-time jobs that we so desperately need. Cut corporate tax rates and corporations will end up sitting on an even bigger stockpile of cash. Period. There is no reason to believe that any jobs would come back to the United States or that more funds would be invested here. Firms invest because they expect strong demand for their products, not simply because they have higher profits. Strong demand will only materialize if consumers are empowered with higher wages and relieved of their debt burden.

We, the undersigned economists, stand firmly opposed to the President’s tax plan. Reforms of some sort are not unwarranted, but if our goal is to improve the lives of American workers then this is absolutely not the route to take. Indeed, it may prove to be disastrous. Tax cuts that create economic growth start at the bottom, not at the top. It is not too late to make the current bill into something that could spur growth and employment and usher in a new era of prosperity for all Americans.

Sincerely,

John T. Harvey, Professor of Economics, Texas Christian University, TX Stephanie Kelton, Professor of Public Policy and Economics, Stony Brook University, NY Fadhel Kaboub, Associate Professor of Economics, Denison University, OH James K. Galbraith, Lloyd M. Bentsen Jr. Chair in Government/Business Relations and a Professorship of Government, the LBJ School of Public Affairs, University of Texas, Austin, TX Aaron Pacitti, Associate Professor of Economics and the Douglas T. Hickey Chair in Business, Siena College, NY Agnes Quisumbing, PhD Economics, Senior Research Fellow at International Food Policy Research Institute, Washington DC Alan Aja, Associate Professor and Deputy Chairperson Puerto Rican and Latino Studies, Brooklyn College, NY Alexander Binder, Assistant Professor of Economics, Finance & Banking, Pittsburg State University, KS Alexandra Bernasek, Sr. Associate Dean & Professor of Economics, Colorado State University, CO Alfonso Flores-Lagunes, Professor of Economics, Syracuse University, NY Allison Shwachman Kaminaga, PhD, Lecturer in Economics, Bryant University, MA Andrew Barenberg, Assistant Professor of Economics, St. Martin's University, WA Andrew Larkin, Emeritus Professor of Economics, St Cloud State University, MN Anita Dancs, Associate Professor of Economics, Western New England University, MA Antonio Callari, Professor of Economics, Franklin and Marshall College, PA Antonio J. Fernós-Sagebien, PhD Economist Arthur MacEwan, Professor Emeritus of Economics, University of Massachusetts Boston, MA Avanti Mukherjee, Assistant Professor of Economics, SUNY Cortland, NY Avraham Baranes, Assistant Professor of Economics, Rollins College, FL Baban Hasnat, Professor of Economics, The College of Brockport, SUNY, NY Barbara Wiens-Tuers, Associate Professor of Economics Ermerita, Penn State Altoona, PA Bernard Smith, Associate Professor of Economics, Drew University, NJ Brian Werner, PhD Economist at USDA Bruce Pietrykowski, Professor of Economics, University of Michigan at Dearborn, MI Cameron Ellis, Assistant Professor of Economics, Temple University, PA Carol Scotton, Associate Professor of Economics, Knox College, IL Charalampos Konstantinidis, Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Massachusetts at Boston, MA Charles Becker, Research Professor of Economics, Duke University, NC Charu Charusheela, Professor, Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences, University of Washington, Bothell, WA Chiara Piovani, Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Denver, CO Chris Tilly, PhD in Economics and Urban Studies and Planning, Professor of Urban Planning at UCLA, CA Christopher Brown, Professor of Economics, Arkansas State University, AR Clara Mattei, Assistant Professor of Economics, New School for Social Research, NY Dale Tussing, Professor Emeritus of Economics, Syracuse University, NY Dania Francis, Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Massachusetts at Amherst, MA Daniel Lawson, Professor of Economics, Oakland Community College, MI Daniele Tavani, Associate Professor of Economics, Colorado State University, CO Daphne Greenwood, Professor of Economics, University of Colorado, Colorado Springs, CO Darrick Hamilton, Associate Professor of Economics and Urban Policy at The Milano School of International Affairs, Management and Urban Policy and the Department of Economics, New School for Social Research, NY David Eil, Assistant professor of Economics, George Mason University, VA David Zalewski, Professor of Economics, Providence College, RI Dell Champlin, PhD economist, Instructor of Economics, Oregon State University, OR Devin T. Rafferty, Assistant Professor of Economics and Finance, Saint Peter's University, NJ Don Goldstein, Emeritus Professor of Economics, Allegheny College, PA Dorene Isenberg, Professor of Economics, University of Redlands, CA Douglas Bowles, Assistant Director, Center for Economic Information, University of Missouri at Kansas City, MO Edith Kuiper, Assistant Professor of Economics, SUNY New Paltz, NY Edward J Nell, Emeritus Professor, New School for Social Research, NY, and Vice-President, Henry George School of Social Science, Chief Economist, RECIPCO Corp Eiman Zein-Elabdin, Professor of Economics, Franklin & Marshall College, PA Elaine McCrate, Associate Professor of Economics and Women's and Gender Studies, University of Vermont, VT Elba Brown-Collier, PhD Economist Elhussien Mansour, PhD Economist, Senior Financial Analyst, Royal Consulate General of Saudi Arabia, NY Elizabeth Ramey, Associate Professor of Economics at Hobart and William Smith Colleges, NY Emily Blank, Associate Professor of Economics, Howard University, Washington DC Ellis Scharfenaker, Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Missouri - Kansas City, MO Enid Arvidson, Ph.D. economist, Associate Professor, College of Architecture, Planning and Public Affairs, University of Texas at Arlington, TX Eric Tymoigne, Associate Professor of Economics at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, OR Erik Dean, Ph.D., Instructor of Economics, Portland Community College, OR F. Gregory Hayden, Professor of Economics (retired), University of Nebraska-Lincoln, NE Farida Khan, Professor of Economics, University of Wisconsin at Parkside, WI Fatma Gul Unal, Assistant Professor of Economics, Hobart and William Smith Colleges, NY Firat Demir, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Oklahoma Norman, OK Flavia Dantas, Associate Professor of Economics, SUNY Cortland, NY Frank McLaughlin, Associate Professor of Economics (retired), Boston College, MA Fred Moseley, Professor of Economics at Mount Holyoke College, MA Frederic Jennings, PhD economist, Economic Consultant, MA Gary Mongiovi, Associate Professor of Economics and Finance, St. John's University, NY Geoffrey Schneider, Professor of Economics, Bucknell University, PA George DeMartino, PhD economist, Professor at the Josef Korbel School of International Studies, University of Denver, CO Gerald Epstein, Professor of Economics, University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA Glen Atkinson, Foundation Professor of Economics Emeritus, University of Nevada, Reno, NV Haider A. Khan, John Evans Distinguished University Professor, Professor of Economics, University of Denver, CO Haimanti Bhattacharya, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Utah, UT Haydar Kurban, Associate Professor of Economics, Howard University, Washington DC Hector Saez, PhD Economist, Faculty in Community Economic Development, Chatham University, PA Howard Stein, Professor in the Department of Afroamerican and African Studies (DAAS) and the Department of Epidemiology at the University of Michigan, MI Hyun Woong Park, Assistant Professor of Economics, Denison University, OH Ilene Grabel, Professor of Economics in the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver, CO James G. Devine, Professor of Economics, Loyola Marymount University, CA James Sturgeon, Professor of Economics, University of Missouri - Kansas City, MO Jeffrey S. Zax, Professor of Economics, University of Colorado Boulder, CO Jennifer Olmsted, Professor of Economics, Drew University, NJ Jim Peach, Regents and Chevron Endowed Professor of Economics, Applied Statistics, and International Business, New Mexico State University, NM Joelle Leclaire, Associate Professor of Economics and Finance, SUNY Buffalo State, NY. Johan Uribe, Assistant Professor of Economics, Denison University, OH John Dennis Chasse, PhD Economist John Hall, Professor of Economics, Portland State University, OR John F. Henry, Professor of Economics (retired), California State University, Sacramento, CA John Sarich, Economist at New York City Department of Finance and Cooper Union, NY John Willoughby, Professor of Economics, American University, Washington DC Jon Wisman, Professor of Economics at American University, Washington DC Jonathan Cogliano, Assistant Professor of Economics, Dickinson College, PA Jonathan Millman, Lecturer in Economics at University of Massachusetts at Boston, MA Jonathan Wight, Professor of International Economics, University of Richmond, VA Jose Caraballo, Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Puerto Rico, PR Joseph Vavrus, Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Redlands, CA Julie Nelson, Professor of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Boston, MA Julio Huato, Associate Professor of Economics, Francis College, NY June Lapidus, Associate Professor of Economics, Roosevelt University, IL Karl Petrick, Assistant Professor of Economics, Western New England University, MA Katherine Moos, Assistant Professor of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and Economist at the Political Economy Research Institute, MA Kazim Konyar, Professor of Economics, California State University, San Bernardino, CA Kimberly Christensen, Professor of Economics, Sarah Lawrence College, NY Korkut Erturk, Professor of Economics, University of Utah, UT Lance Taylor, Arnhold Professor Emeritus, New School for Social Research, NY Laurence Krause, Associate Professor and Chair of Economics, SUNY Old Westbury, NY Laurie DeMarco, Principal Economist Federal Reserve System, Washington DC Leanne Roncolato, Assistant Professor of Economics, Franklin and Marshall College, PA Linda Loubert, Associate Professor and Interim Chair of Economics at Morgan State University Linwood Tauheed, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Missouri-Kansas City, MO Lorenzo Garbo, Professor of Economics, University of Redlands, CA Maggie R. Jones, Economist at US Census, Washington DC Maliha Safri, Associate Professor of Economics, Drew University, NJ Marc Tomljanovich, Professor of Economics and Business, Executive Director of Business Programs, Director, Wall Street Semester Program, Drew University, NJ Marilyn Power, Professor Emerita of Economics, Sarah Lawrence College, NY Mark Maier, Professor of Economics, Glendale Community College, CA Mark Paul, Postdoctoral Associate at the Samuel DuBois Cook Center on Social Equity, DukeUniversity, NC Mark Setterfield, Professor of Economics, New School for Social Research, NY Marlene Kim, Faculty Staff Union President and Professor Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts Boston, MA Mary King, Professor of Economics, Portland State University, OR Mathew Forstater, Professor of Economics, University of Missouri Kansas City, MO Mayo Toruno, Professor Emeritus, California State University, San Bernardino, CA Mehrene Larudee, Associate Professor of Economics, Hampshire College, MA Michael Hudson, Professor of Economics, University of Missouri in Kansas City, MO, and Research Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College, NY Michael J. 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Tcherneva, Chair and Associate Professor of Economics, Bard College, NY Peter Bohmer, Economics Faculty, Evergreen State College, WA Peter Eaton, Associate Professor of Economics, Director of the Center for Economic Information, University of Missouri at Kansas City, MO Peter Dorman, Professor of Political Economy, Evergreen State College, WA Philip Harvey, Professor of Law and Economics, Rutgers University, NJ Praopan Pratoomchat, Assistant Professor, School of Business and Economics, University of Wisconsin Superior, WI Pratistha Joshi, Postdoc Scholar at Global Development and Environment Institute, Tufts University, MA Radhika Balakrishnan, Professor of Women's and Gender Studies, Rutgers University, NJ Raechelle Mascarenhas, Associate Professor of Economics, Willamette University, OR Ramaa Vasudevan, Associate Professor of Economics, Colorado State University, CO Randy Albelda, Graduate Program Director and Professor of Economics, and Senior Research Fellow, Center for Social Policy, University of Massachusetts at Boston, MA Reynold F. Nesiba, Professor of Economics, Augustana University, SD Richard D. Wolff, Professor of Economics Emeritus, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA, and currently visiting Professor in the Graduate Program in International Affairs of the New School University, NY Richard McGahey, PhD in economics, former Executive Director of the Congressional Joint Economic Committee Robert Blecker, Professor of Economics, American University, Washington DC Robert Pollin, Distinguished Professor of Economics and Co-Director of the Political Economy Research Institute, University of Massachusetts-Amherst, MA Robert Scott III, Professor of Economics and Finance, Monmouth University, NJ Robin L. Bartlett, Professor of Economics, Denison University, OH Rodney Green, Professor, Chair and Executive Director, Center for Urban Progress Department of Economics, Howard University, Washington DC Ross M. LaRoe, Associate Professor of Economics Emeritus, Denison University, OH Rudiger von Arnim, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Utah, UT Sarah Jacobson, Associate Professor of Economics, Williams College, MA Savvina Chowdhury, Ph.D., Economics Faculty, Evergreen State College, WA Scott Carter, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Tulsa, OK Scott Fullwiler, Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Missouri at Kansas City, MO Shaianne Osterreich, Associate Professor of Economics, Ithaca College, NY Shakuntala Das, Assistant Professor of Economics, SUNY Potsdam, NY Sheila Martin, Director of the Population Research Center and of the Institute of Portland Metropolitan Studies, Service and Research Centers, Portland State University, OR Sohrab Behdad, John E. Harris Professor of Economics, Denison University, OH Spencer Pack, Professor of Economics, Connecticut College, CT Sripad Motiram, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Massachusetts Boston, MA Stacey Jones, PhD Economics, Senior Instructor of Economics, Seattle University, WA Stephanie Seguino, Professor of Economics, University of Vermont, Burlington, VT Stephen Bannister, Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Utah, UT Steven Pressman, Professor of Economics, Colorado State University, CA Sujata Verma, Professor of Economics at Notre Dame de Namur University in Belmont, CA Susan Feiner, Professor of Economics and Women and Gender Studies, University of Southern Maine, ME Tara Natarajan, Professor of Economics, St. Michael's College, VT Ted Schmidt, Associate Professor of Economics, SUNY Buffalo State, NY Teresa Ghilarducci, Professor of Economics, New School for Social Research, NY Thea Harvey-Barratt, Faculty in Economics, Bard College at Simon's Rock, MA

PAID FOR BY THE SANDERS INSTITUTE 131 CHURCH STREET BURLINGTON, VT 05401

The Sanders Institute is a pending 501(c)(3) organization.

131 Church Street, Burlington, VT 05401

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

"Trump’s Tax Plan Gives $520 Billion to Wealthy Foreigners at the Expense of American Middle Class"

http://www.newsweek.com/gop-tax-plan-foreign-investors-middle-class-americans-726410

Also at the expense of the working poor and the just plain poor (no one ever mentions the working poor - so I try to whenever possible)

https://twitter.com/DKAtoday/status/937892662102953985

[-] 2 points by elf3 (3779) 1 week ago

I used to think they couldnt see past their own greed to realize they are shooting the economy and eventually themselves in the dick...but now I think they are actually trying to shoot America in the dick and to plan to destroy it and the entire world. Did they colonize Mars and discover wormholes and time travel...I mean cuz where are they going to sppend all this money or live...when it all becomes like a futuristic depressing movie where the rebels are so abundant there is nowhere they can hide? Currency will consist of potato e s ...and pure water and be worth more than diamonds or gold.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

Sooner or later - the rampant greed and the catering to it - WILL finish the collapse started in 2007 - 2008.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 1 week ago

That is the worst. The poor, who have no say or clue, are getting the worst of it, and it will come on slowly then suddenly, be like 2008 and will be in another spiral.

Here's a laugh ha ha https://gritpost.com/republicans-corporate-donors-tax-bill/

Republicans Accidentally Bankrupted Their Corporate Donors with This Provision in the Tax Bill

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

Republicans Accidentally Bankrupted Their Corporate Donors

If only - hey? Somehow I don't think those oversights will get through congress. But it is funny - f'n middle of the night backstabbers.

[-] 2 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 2 weeks ago

’m a Depression historian. The GOP tax bill is straight out of 1929. Republicans are again sprinting toward an economic cliff.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/11/30/im-a-depression-historian-the-gop-tax-bill-is-straight-out-of-1929/?utm_term=.d5fb8facb20e

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

This is a real cliff and it is all of our USA that will be smashed at the bottom of the drop engineered by the insane greedy wealthy few!

[-] 2 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 2 weeks ago

READ the GOP Bill

NO deductions for health care accounts

https://www.scribd.com/document/363305680/Tax-Bill-Text

So the 1 percent can get another BREAK

preparation expenses. Sec.1308.Repeal of medical expense deduction. Sec.1309.Repeal of deduction for alimony payments. Sec.1310.Repeal of deduction for moving expenses. Sec.1311.Termination of deduction and exclusions for contributions to medical savings accounts. Sec.1312.Denial of deduction for expenses attributable to the trade or busi-ness of being an employee.t

SHould be called the fuck the working man tax shaft

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

SHould be called the fuck the working man tax shaft

Another in the long series of fuck the population legislation popularly known as trickle down.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 1 week ago

Not only they're getting screwed, they probably won't know,what's hitting them, cause they ve been watching Fox and Friends News

http://occupywallst.org/forum/fox-and-friends-producing-brainwashed-sheeple/

I have talked to working poor too, who are excited for that tax cut sales pitch. It is like buying a car, they are selling a lemon and saying its this will raise all the boats, by giving a job. Well I hope so, but seems like more hope and change, redux

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

One can hope that Public outrage will be enough to shut this proposal down in Congress. But if not I do believe that once it kicks in - it will really get masses of people royally pissed off and perhaps they will slam the republicans out of office.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

My Grandmother back in the day - fed many made homeless by the depression (history calls them Hobos = those displaced and left wandering by a lack of social safety nets) in her kitchen - they made marks on her fence to say she was good people.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (3779) 2 weeks ago

In india the poor elderly are left to die starving on a sidewalk...so watch me take this put tom...good swing sir. Look at that bum...I wonder if I can hit this shot off his nose...any takers..? Now how about that Apple stock. That's what the rich want here now. The rich are all psycopaths.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

OH I Know - be embarrassed/shamed by the individual who has been smashed - and instead of trying to help - kick them in the teeth. Some peoples used to leave their elderly or sick behind when they migrated to better lands for the season. Modern society has no excuse for leaving the sick or elderly behind - they do not endanger the rest of society.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 days ago

Aus dem Sumpf / From the Swamp:

Wed., December 13th, 2017

"11:56 a.m.

House and Senate GOP leaders have forged an agreement on a sweeping overhaul of the nation's tax laws. That paves the way for final votes next week to slash taxes for businesses and give most people tax cuts starting next year.

Top GOP aides say the deal was reached on Wednesday. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the deal. Details still need to be drafted and assessed by congressional scorekeepers but the final House-Senate compromise is on track to be unveiled this week."

God Bless America, the World's Only Sduper Power!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

THROW THE BUMS OUT !

Damn Straight:

Stop t Wealth Care General Population Austerity Legislation NOW @SenateGOP @HouseGOP

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION !

& NO U HAVE NOT REPRESENTED THE GENERAL POPULATION - U HAVE REPRESENTED T WEALTHY FEW !

Shades of t American Revolution!

https://twitter.com/DKAtoday/status/938453680977776643

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 3 weeks ago

It is not a tax cut except for the wealthy http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/24/while-everyone-focuses-sex-scandals-rich-get-richer/

Combined, America’s 540 billionaires control as much wealth as two-thirds of the public, or 220 million people. Meanwhile, almost one in five U.S households, over 19 percent, have zero or negative net worth. These figures are even higher for Latinos (27 percent) and blacks (over 30 percent).

This is not a picture of a healthy society, and it is getting worse. Our elected officials should be vying with one another in proposing measures to reverse economic inequality.

Instead, amazingly, Congress is preparing to enact tax “reform” measures that will make the problem even worse. Both the tax bill recently passed by the House and the main bill currently under consideration in the Senate feature large, permanent tax cuts for corporations and wealthy individuals, small, temporary tax cuts for middle-class families, and small tax increases on the poorest Americans.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

Depending on how it's regulated, tax, including inheritance, can either help concentrate wealth and power in a new aristocracy or it may, if done in the opposite sense, cause the distribution of wealth and property such that actual freedom and democracy will be possible.

"When the legislator has regulated the law of inheritance, he may rest from his labor. The machine once put in motion will go on for ages, and advance, as if self-guided, towards a given point. When framed in a particular manner, this law unites, draws together, and vests property and power in a few hands: its tendency is clearly aristocratic. On opposite principles its action is still more rapid; it divides, distributes, and disperses both property and power. Alarmed by the rapidity of its progress, those who despair of arresting its motion endeavor to obstruct it by difficulties and impediments; they vainly seek to counteract its effect by contrary efforts; but it gradually reduces or destroys every obstacle, until by its incessant activity the bulwarks of the influence of wealth are ground down to the fine and shifting sand which is the basis of democracy."

Democracy In America, Volume 1; 1835 by Alexis de Toqueville

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

A call to Impeach! https://t.co/gKNyjsuIv4

A reminder I attached in a tweet:

Here is t link 2 t petition 2 impeach Trump. https://www.needtoimpeach.com/ Don't forget! @realDonaldTrump is only a small portion of t toxic swamp don't forget 2 remove his supporters in @SenateGOP @HouseGOP @GOP or those appointed to his admin & those he appointed 2 head institutions.

https://twitter.com/DKAtoday/status/934139523742752768

followed by:

Not 2 forget

While Wealth Care Health Care & Wealth Care Tax Proposals r part of @realDonaldTrump agenda - t @SenateGOP @HouseGOP @GOP & ALEC r t 1's putting together t legislation proposals & doing their best 2 pass them!

https://twitter.com/DKAtoday/status/934140665109368837

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

Food 4 public thought: Who works for you and who doesn't and how consistently either way? Yes the republican party including those currently in office are truly toxic to the general middle class as well as to the working poor. So why hasn't the general public removed them from office and ended their party legitimacy yet?

A comment string I initiated on twitter and go back to from time to time to continue to put the questions in the public eye.

https://twitter.com/DKAtoday/status/934107239710953472

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

I suggest that the USA Government as well as Corporations - really need to rethink how they operate!

One suggestion I tweeted out today:

Hey! @GM @Ford @Chrysler

I'm thinking that if u guys can't put out an electric version of every type of vehicle that u make that can match @Tesla's 500 to 600+ miles per charge.

Maybe U can contract with @Tesla 2 use their technology. HEY ???

https://twitter.com/DKAtoday/status/932357962466775041

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 4 weeks ago

Conservatives are a greater threat to human survival than all the tyrants and terrorists since the beginning of civilization.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

The only real way to do that - is to claim ownership and boot the wealthy few catering bastards OUT. Like Orrin Hatch https://t.co/Js6XoLYnWI

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

It's supposed to be the Peoples government. Unfortunately in the eyes of the law corporations are people too - and apparently their wishes trump actual biological human beings.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 4 weeks ago

Corporations don't need tax cuts. What about paradise papers!

WTF?

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/10/31/16581822/republican-tax-cuts-real-costs

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

I know that corporations don't need tax cuts - they are flush with cash and none of it is making it's way down to those who really do the work and Raygunomics made it easier for corporations to take wealth straight out of the country along with jobs - and this new wealth care tax bill that is now in the senate is gonna make things so much worse for the majority of the middle class and for the working poor while giving more wealth to the wealthy few and allow them to keep on off-shoring work and wealth.

[-] 2 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 4 weeks ago

I know that you know.

So government is broken, we are not represented.

Revolt.....

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/17/remarkable-angry-exchange-between-senators-unmasks-the-gops-tax-cut-lies/

We need a people's government. Don't any pay tax till we get it!

Repubs gerrymandered, stole elections, cheated, collaborated, and have whitewashed all!

They conspired to steal the vote from veterans serving overseas! It's a fact!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

The thing is "Revolt" is exactly what has begun to happen - look at all of the street protests all across this country - the tinder is dry and all the wild fire needs is just one spark.

On an aside. Something I saw and retweeted earlier today: https://t.co/Js6XoLYnWI

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 4 weeks ago

Vote stealing, then passing this neoliberal shit shouldn't be occurring in 21st century, especially when middle has been squeezed 40 years, but we've let the fucks steal elections too long, they think no one cares

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/inside-purge-tens-thousands-ohio-voters/story?id=39586417

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

That also includes the DNC establishment who rigged the 2016 nomination to guarantee sHillary's nomination. Good news is actions look to be brewing against GOP gerrymandering.

Can the people regain gov before it all burns down around us?

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 4 weeks ago
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

Parties should not be allowed to pick nominees - it should be one person (public) gets one vote and candidate with the most votes wins. None of this well you can vote but don't count on the vote making the winner because we have delegates that will make that decision regardless of what actual vote counts are. Yeah this means you electoral college have got to be done away with as well.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 4 weeks ago

LIsten to this podcast, ,THE LINK BETWEEN ROY MOORE, GEORGE W. BUSH AND VOTER SUPPRESSION, DKA.... It proves systemic illegal conspiracy by republicans, massive problem gave us Bush 2, also Trump I think https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/11/17/link-roy-moore-george-w-bush-voter-suppression/ Conspiracy of voter suppression by Alabama Senator wannabe Judge Moore campaign official, with ties to Repubs back to Bush, and detailed voter fraud .....Worried about Russian hackers or other outsiders meddling in US elections? Arguably, the greatest threat to our democratic system comes not from the outside but from forces within our own two-party system that are trying, and often succeeding, to prevent American citizens from voting.

In this week’s WhoWhatWhy podcast, Jeff Schechtman talks to journalist Greg Palast, author of The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, about “caging” and “crosscheck” — two species of “dirty tricks” that are being used ever more frequently to suppress votes. While the primary practitioners have been Republicans, encouraged for years by Karl Rove, Palast explains that Democrats are using similar tricks to gain advantages in primary elections.

In “caging,” letters are sent out to voters who must spend time away from their primary addresses, such as minority soldiers stationed abroad or students during summer recess. When the letters come back as “undeliverable,” the senders can use this as a reason to get those voters taken off the rolls.

Over the years, caging has led to millions of eligible voters being purged from voting rolls, Palast says. He adds that this and other stratagems are very much in use today by operatives like Brett Doster, a onetime Rove operative who is now running Roy Moore’s senatorial campaign in Alabama.

The story that Palast tells is truly one of “birds of a feather” getting together to undermine what’s left of our electoral democracy

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

Good podcast - but could have gone a lot further - like bringing in Koch and "their" American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) which has produced a ton of legislation that republicans in office (members of ALEC) then push through state and federal government. There is a lot of dirt out their on how the government has been taken away from the public. There are other groups out there as well , like the Cato institute and the American petroleum institute (just to name a couple more).

Everyone screaming Russia Interference (DNC as well as GOP) are just hoping the public will take that shiny distraction and leave them alone.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

Yes, was really really bad. Should be disbanded. Also Repubs have done worse

Again - I absolutely agree. Republicans have been working very hard for decades to deny votes to sections of their population as well as gerrymandering districts to disproportionately favor the republican party. The DNC fucking with voters in 2016 was so blatantly transparent because they were not set-up to keep this out of the public eye.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

Worried about Russian hackers or other outsiders meddling in US elections? Arguably, the greatest threat to our democratic system comes not from the outside but from forces within our own two-party system that are trying, and often succeeding, to prevent American citizens from voting.

I Absolutely agree - I've seen it happening for decades. And yeah I am gonna check out the pod cast.

BTW - I have never seen the DNC so blatantly open about their stealing a nomination the way they did in 2016.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 4 weeks ago

Yes, was really really bad. Should be disbanded. Also Repubs have done worse, also disbanded, outlawed.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

I think that they are all in that Skull secret society. The confederacy lost the war but keep fighting for the confederacy through federal and state government now.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 4 weeks ago

Seriously listen to it

Worried about Russian hackers or other outsiders meddling in US elections? Arguably, the greatest threat to our democratic system comes not from the outside but from forces within our own two-party system that are trying, and often succeeding, to prevent American citizens from voting.

In this week’s WhoWhatWhy podcast, Jeff Schechtman talks to journalist Greg Palast, author of The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, about “caging” and “crosscheck” — two species of “dirty tricks” that are being used ever more frequently to suppress votes. While the primary practitioners have been Republicans, encouraged for years by Karl Rove, Palast explains that Democrats are using similar tricks to gain advantages in primary elections.

In “caging,” letters are sent out to voters who must spend time away from their primary addresses, such as minority soldiers stationed abroad or students during summer recess. When the letters come back as “undeliverable,” the senders can use this as a reason to get those voters taken off the rolls.

Over the years, caging has led to millions of eligible voters being purged from voting rolls, Palast says. He adds that this and other stratagems are very much in use today by operatives like Brett Doster, a onetime Rove operative who is now running Roy Moore’s senatorial campaign in Alabama.

The story that Palast tells is truly one of “birds of a feather” getting together to undermine what’s left of our electoral democracy

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 4 weeks ago

https://www.thenation.com/article/iowas-new-voter-id-law-would-have-disenfranchised-my-grandmother/

Wish I can find the radio program I heard driving 11/14/17 on this republican hack job that purged military serving overseas from opportunity to vote, by sending letter to residence in black areas and democrat areas, and challenging residency, even without knowledge of those being challenged, for not responding to the residence challenge, as were serving and stationed overseas, and ballots did not get counted, 900 percent for anti trump, (had registered democrat) and stationed overseas Could be this, not sure https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/11/17/link-roy-moore-george-w-bush-voter-suppression/

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 4 weeks ago

Actually, corporations do need the tax cuts so that they can use the tax savings for onshore automation to get around the "America First" barriers. Lots of jobs will be created in the U.S., just not for humans. Even the existing human jobs will probably dwindle, too.

This was played out with the coal industry over many decades. After foreign competition vastly diminished domestic production of coal and many workers fired, the industry greatly automated. Although the coal production had reached records again, the human jobs Never ever returned to its former numbers.

This is why I say that "America First" will end miserably. Corporations do not have human job creation governmental mandates associated with their tax savings. I do see a point in the way that they are doing it, though. Lots of overseas human jobs will be eliminated, probably destabilizing higher-waged countries such as Red (national socialist) China. We will then need wartime efforts to intervene in the chaotic aftermath.

The greatest economic stimulus ever that had lifted the world economy out of the Great Depression was WWII after nationalsozialisticher Germany had found a way out for the German people and all the peoples of the world. Germany is truly a land of ideas: the Gutenberg press (key to the rise of the middle class), the Reformation (eventually the Thirty Years' War), Nazism, Communism, poison gas, jet engine, V-2 rocket, autobahn, gas chamber, Haber-Bosch process (which nourishes a third of the entire human population with protein and enables producing explosives on industrial scale for war), etc.

God proved correct once again in WWII. Erythrobaptism cleansed away the sins of Capitalism with human blood to yield Post-War prosperity out of the Great [Panic], as God had promised.

"All hands to battlestations," does work. Hallelujah!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 weeks ago

Kamikaze deep-diving, incoming alert!

"Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving" when our distracted people shall be stuffed.

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 3 weeks ago

Wait a minute, we are going to eliminate the two largest deductions that the wealthy people take - home mortgage and state income tax - so they pay more. Why am I supposed to be angry?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

If the eliminated deductions were restricted to only the wealthy it would be no big thing. Eliminating these deductions for the lower middle class and the working poor however - is a big thing.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (3779) 1 week ago

So the corporate tax rate will be lower than the majority of working class Americans...but also they offshore overseas and have about a zillion legal loopholes their lobbyists wrote into law...most pay zero and some have negative tax...(see Paradise and Panama Papers) and like E. Warren stated noone is self made...the goods are shipped on our roads, protected by our police, their stores use all of our resources...so how is it not only do they manage to have slaves make their goods ship them into the country at a discounted tax while using massive amounts of fuel and producing massive amounts of waste and chemicals we all pay to clean up, low ball American workers, highball American consumers, and then owe nothing back to pay forward the massive wealth built on the backs of others?

They answer is of course that aren't contributing to society...giant corporations steal. They are out and out thieves. They put everyone else smaller out of business so there are fewer jobs. They own all the goods we must purchase in a bloodline of investments while also owning our labor /stagnating pay so we can hardly afford to buy their goods which leads to debts we must purchase with interest to buy their goods... aka indentured servitude multiplied by indentured for life.

We have been gaslighted into believing that somehow these giant monopolies and multinational bullies are good for society. It's a trick...is anyone buying into it anymore? We all see the truth. Now we need to fight them. We need to wage war on corporations...tax them at 95 percent. Tear them down to size...banks developers landlords monopolies...aristocracy and make sure they never bribe our government again ( or take it over )

And they are so worried about gay marriage really? Meanwhile politicians and ceos are having relationships so putrid and vile satan would blush ...the issue isn't about morality...the issue is about controlling the individual. (See all that anti snowflake propaganda...hidden beneath it is the message you are no longer by birthright you...you belong to WS first and must earn your place in Wallstreet's Mad World however it is they do that I guess by convincing others they have no longer a divine right to the self) and The more they can control everything from marriages to womens' bodies...to monitoring phone calls = the more power they obtain /it sets a new normal on whose our Daddy...Big Monopoly Big Government Duo owns us and while we fight and fight against them they keep us busy on a treadmill of new rights we used to have we now have to fight for (like net neutrality , privacy, and birth control - because they can masturbate to their rising stock everyday losing god knows how much sperm- but women can't take a pill that pauses the release of her eggs) while they throw more money to lawyers and watch the peasants run their legs off trying while they golf and laugh at us smoking a cigar. Believing this ability to hedge dividends is more special than generating and growing a being inside of a body and pushing it into the world.... They have deemed themselves CREATORS.

We need to wage war. This is going to get worse. The more taxes they save...the more rights we lose...the more power they gain..The more taxes they save...the more rights we lose...the more power they gain...a vicious cycle until eventually we are no longer free but merely the servant of these conglomerated multinational landlordian sexist gayist racist narcissist greed driven power hungry pigs. (And no the rest of us would not " do it too if we could". We don't have narcissism...we don't have heads messed up so bad from trauma we have to subvert our fellow human beings to feel whole. The rest of us normal good people do good things for others...we pay things forward, we realize in our vulnerability and humanity and empathy...we have strength that can never be purchased....strength a CEO or wealthy conman or a conman president...can never themselves own. So we arent the real losers, Wallstreet is not America, it is not WE the people, our government no longer represents the people, our values, or what this country should stand for. It has been infultrated. BUT The people, the real good, hard working people who own this land by virtue of their sweat and toil will prevail: for the men without passion will always underestimate ours and THAT it is even more powerful than the most expensive lobbists and lawyers. Wall Street soon...will no longer own us. If we want it.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 1 week ago

Here's a kind of "consolation" that all Western men seem to be on an anonymous perennial birth control pill: https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/539517210/sperm-counts-plummet-in-western-men-study-finds. I wonder whether the stories about space aliens coming to Earth abducting human beings for overcoming their reproductive problems are true. Maybe they used so much plastic material and polluted their home planet that they had to fly many lightyears away to find a solution.

DPRK may well be an Earthling version of the same plight abducting the Japanese. Do the men of DPRK perform well in bed achieving conceptions? Are they too obese or too emaciated to perform? Why is the population of DPRK so much smaller than ROK, given that DPRK was more industrialized and prosperous than ROK? Is it due to the sexually repressive regimen of the regime? The Americans conquered Japan and drastically opened up its sexual mores. Nowadays, Japanese pornography hawked by DPRK is world-famous making money for more nuclear missiles - from sex bombs to nuclear bombs!

Islam will definitely be very successful in taking over the World because of its sexpot treatment of women pumping out babies after babies. Maybe these (obese?) men in power just want the women to stay fertile for the entire month of the period to compensate for their rapidly approaching infertility (5x17 = 85 ~= 3x28 = 84). Germany will do great by avoiding future population decline because of the virile men from the Middle East it has imported.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

We need to wage war. This is going to get worse. The more taxes they save...the more rights we lose...the more power they gain..The more taxes they save...the more rights we lose...the more power they gain...a vicious cycle until eventually we are no longer free but merely the servant of these conglomerated multinational landlordian sexist gayist racist narcissist greed driven power hungry pigs.

The war is coming. Note the growing unrest and protests - the wage slavery and middle class, working poor austerity program of government will (sooner or later) start the raging wildfire. It is happening faster in other areas of the world including parts of Europe now.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 3 weeks ago

http://fortune.com/2017/11/03/trump-gop-tax-plan-loophole/ Instead, tax writers created more special carve-outs for the highest-income households that make the 39.6% top rate seem far less significant by comparison. Most notably, the plan eliminates the estate tax, which only the wealthiest 0.2% pay, as the first $11 million in wealth is exempt from the tax. The sole reason for repealing this tax is to shower more tax benefits on the wealthy. The legislation also dramatically reduces tax rates for corporations and other highly profitable businesses, and repeals the backstop Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), which ensures that high-income taxpayers pay at least some basic amount of tax, no matter how many loopholes their accounts helped them find. All these provisions would offer an enormous windfall to the nation’s wealthiest families, despite a 39.6% top rate being left in place for salaries and wages.

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 3 weeks ago

The wealthy people have already paid tax on the money in the estate tax. The elimination of the state tax and the mortgage deduction are huge as they wealthy are the ones primarily benefitting from this.

I have no problem with the corporate tax reduction as the government well get this at the individual level. That is why reducing the deductions are so important. What am i missing here.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 3 weeks ago

It is a version of trickle down that will explode the deficit, and then many established programs for middle class will be forced to take a cut, including the military.

https://qz.com/1137105/the-insane-logic-of-cutting-taxes-on-the-highest-earners-in-the-united-states/

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

And the republicans are trying to set it up so that the crap they shovel onto the lower middle class and working poor is blamed on the democrats in office - a tactic that they have successfully used all too often!

https://t.co/4wPZUiZTA6

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-gop-tax-plan-who-does-it-help-and-hurt

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 3 weeks ago

I still don't get it. The plan eliminates the deductions that the wealthy use the most so it will increase taxes on them.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 2 weeks ago

This link explains how we should not End the death tax http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/42613-a-100-percent-dynasty-tax-would-achieve-all-the-gop-s-tax-reform-goals to decrease inequality, and help secure democracy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/opinion/senate-tax-bill-scam.html Yes, cap their deductions and tax at 50 percent annual income over 200,000. Invest in universal education tax credits.

Hope all the money going to offshore tax havens can be reported as taxable income.

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

all this revolution talk is just nonsense. Do any of you actually work or just are thinkers

[-] 3 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 2 weeks ago

I support the political revolution described by Bernie SANDERs.

I support overturning Citizens United.

I support a more democratic process as put forward here

http://www.cusdi.org/summary_paper.pdf

I support this as a free citizen, voter, with 43 years of work, and 2 degrees, kids and grandkids, and I see many milliniels battling deep depression on difficulties getting by, getting established, and seeing deficits grow, on bumbling wars, poor management in spending, such as these unpaid tax cuts for millionaires.

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

I don't care about Citizens United and really don't know what it is. Bernie Sanders is the guy who just wants everything free. Who is goign to pay for all of that. I do not want my taxes any higher, I want them lower.

I balance my budget, why can't the US. We don't need more spending. The government can't do it.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

I don't care about Citizens United and really don't know what it is.

You have been visiting this site (in your current character) since 2014 and you don't know what Citizens United is all about? That is just not credible.

Bernie Sanders is the guy who just wants everything free.

OH LOOK another Bullshit rethuglican talking point!

I balance my budget, why can't the US. We don't need more spending. The government can't do it.

Says (parrots another rethuglican talking point) the guy who is all for the wealth care tax cuts as he ignores the additional debt the rethuglicans want to add to our national debt.

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

What is up with you, that you can't speak without hostility? As I have said, my taxes are going down and the wealthy are paying more, so I am for this tax bill. I am not sure what you are for, besides being angry and grumpy.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

Not angry no hostility (again = an awfully thin skin you have for a construction worker) - I just do not believe a thing you say.

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

The anger comes through in every sentence. I wouldn't want to work with you.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

I wouldn't want to work with you.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 2 weeks ago

Check this out for some tax info. We are not doing too bad, .... Middle and lower needs help now. Tot the top 10 percent. https://www.oecd.org/ctp/tax-policy/taxing-wages-20725124.htm

Didn't government make the Internet, stop nazis, and provide for fire and police assistance for you?

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 2 weeks ago

Corporations won't do it. Church and private can't do work of government.

Have a low tolerance for corruption, and serving the citizens be the goal of government.

Don't like taxes, Mexico may be a nice place for you to check out. How about any of the 10 least taxed places, sure they must be Nirvana.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 2 weeks ago

Nobody wants to pay too much tax, but a fair tax that a supermajority agrees on.

Now the rich and corporations can hide money in Ireland, or some island, and not pay tax, and Warren Buffet says he pays a lesser rate than his secretary, which isn't really fair.

System is kind of not working, so shake it up with national direct democracy, per the links.

Might result in balanced budget ( with exceptions for economic downturn or war) and more times of peace, and many things the citizens may agree on. F-congress and their rich patrons)

Let's really drain the swamp too.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3107) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 2 weeks ago

This summary of the Initiatives Amendment addresses the problem that Congress has abused the People’s trust by creating systemic Congressional corruption, dysfunction, and inefficiency. Moreover, it has usurped our Democratic Republic by transformation into an Oligarchy controlled by the very wealthy individuals; executives, directors, and major stockholders of domestic and international corporations; aided by 12,000 lobbyists who include over 350 retired congresspersons. Congress permits massively merged media corporations that propagandize their issues, facilitate divide and rule strategies. Hundreds of books, studies, and articles leave no doubt about the reality and severity of these Problems. However, Congress cannot and will not produce an effective Solution because Oligarchy bestows Congresspersons with far greater personal benefits than the People can provide. Consequently, Congress strongly accommodates Oligarchy’s wishes and does not consider the People’s wishes. Our government of the people has become by the Oligarchy, for the Oligarchy. (Download PDF)

That many freshman Congresspersons are decent people and unhappy about Oligarchy is largely irrelevant, because Congress quickly corrupts them or Oligarchs’ targeted election funding often ensures that defiant holdouts lose their seats.

The People can vote, donate, petition, and demonstrate, but Congress ignores them or hides behind mostly cosmetic solutions. Congress gives its serious attention only to big money, re-election, massive protest, and to the People’s remaining peaceful authority: the Declaration of Independence proclaims that, when confronted by abuse and usurpation, it is the People’s Right and their Duty to alter

https://cusdi.org/faq/summary-initiatives-amendment-article-v-convention/

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 weeks ago

Dr. Michael Hudson & Thom Hartmann and,

You're more of a CONservaTive Than a CONsTrucTion Worker,imo. U may need a 'dickTionary' To undersTand whaT's wriTTen on This sTill ExTanT Forum, buT even U should be able To lisTen and undersTand whaT's really happening in USA under Trump & U$A's RW, Human HaTing Oligarchy!

Maybe ask your fellow CONstruction Workers: How they & their families are Really Living in U$A?

et nosce te ipsum!

[+] -4 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

We are doing great with more work than we can handle. So from where we sit, we like our taaxes going down. Maybe you should get off the internet and go to work. We need framers, can you do it?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

We are doing great with more work than we can handle.

Sure sure - and that is why the middle class is shrinking in number and the working poor are growing in number and there is like 50% of the general population that is out of work and skilled labor is being off-shored to dodge paying a living wage and dodge environmental protections as well as worker protections and work remaining here is becoming more and more service based at an income level that is NOT a living wage unless working extreme amounts of hours and days in a Week, Month, Year!

You are delusional! And must be doing storm damage repair (if you really are a construction worker, which I doubt) and replacement for those who can afford the insurance and are covered for floods and fire storms and tornadoes and hurricanes - but you are not likely overburdened in New Construction unless it is for fast food franchises.

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

A construction worker I knew used to describe such as BW81 as, "eat up with the dumb-ass!"

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

Anyone who talks crap and supports it like flipper and Brent are one of two things brain damaged or agents of the en-slavers.

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

We can't get enough men on the work sites now. The people who can't get work right now are the ones who don't want to work. As I have said before, my taxes will be going down and the wealthy are going to pay more, so from where I sit, I like this bill. By the way, what is your occupation?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

We can't get enough men on the work sites now.

Just men? How about Women? Yeah Women have entered the trades.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5051) 1 week ago

Traditionally, English uses the male gender for representing a kind: mankind means humankind (which I prefer to avoid the ambiguity and the automatic mental bias associated with gender). People nowadays use fewer gender-specific terms such as tigress, lioness, ox, cow, bull, stallion, mare, etc. than before. Modern Indo-European languages seem to be losing the gender distinction. It's a good thing because of the automatic gender bias which sets in and the rather ridiculous conflicting gender assignment of certain nouns.

The Soviet Union was a fatherland but Russia is now a motherland. Does this mean that Russia is an emasculated transgender female? However, countries were generally referred to as of female gender but nowadays of neuter gender if not desiring emotional undertone. Did this mean both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were hermaphrodites? In German, every noun has at least one gender assigned to it. It boggles my mind why a table is male. I don't see any male sexual organ on my table and women use it for sure so it makes no sense why "table" belongs to male gender. Some nouns are one gender in one Indo-European language and a different gender in a different Indo-European language. The matter of gender does get confusing! I think that the idea of gender had been extended far overboard in ancient Proto-Indo-European languages.

We just need to understand where people are "coming from." Brentweirick81 is likely a somewhat lower class, moderately older but not of traditional retirement age, "conservatively" self-centered with tunnel vision, and just not "keeping up with the times." Of course, my idea of "upper-class" people is probably rather idiosyncratic so take my assessment with a grain of salt. He is a coal-loving dead-end working stiff with no retraining in his future due to the empty promises of the Crapola-in-Chief (despite its Great size for stuffing turkeys, it still fits roundly into the golden-showered Poo-Tin-the-Great), I believe. We urgently need, "Plop, plop. Fizz, fizz. What a relief it is!"

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

Brentweirick81 is likely a somewhat lower class, moderately older but not of traditional retirement age, "conservatively" self-centered with tunnel vision, and just not "keeping up with the times."

I think you are too kind in your assessment, evidence of his actions would suggest very much otherwise. Coal miners know that working in the mines meant a shorter lifespan with the ending years being very debilitated and more often than not finishing however many years after becoming physically unable to work any more - spent on an oxygen bottle struggling for every breath. Still there are coal miners who have lost their jobs because they are no longer needed who would love to go back to the mines as that is all they know and no one is showing them that there are healthy alternatives that they could take up if only their government would step-up and implement clean energy.

No Brent buddy is (according to himself) an electrician (this I doubt) and spouts the rethuglican propaganda like it was burned into his brain - I do not think he believes the crap - but - he does support it - he is happy (if any of his story can be believed) that HE will see HIS taxes going down - but cares not how the wealth care tax legislation hurts millions of others - and if he can be believed as to his personal story - he can't even see that being in the upper middle class (which is where he would see his taxes going down) that His upper middle class tax breaks are scheduled to end in a few years - they are not permanent which the wealth care for the wealthy tax breaks are to be permanent.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

BTW - if you are Soooooo SWAMPED with work. Just how is it you can spend so much time here and are not pounding down all kinds of overtime hours? Hmmmmm? I mean - this is after-all early on a working day right? So why are you not at work? Are You gonna ignore this for a few hours and then come back and say you couldn't respond sooner because you were at work?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

We can't get enough men on the work sites now.

Really? Where are you that you can't find construction workers? Are you Union? Bet there are plenty of workers looking for steady employment (I know there are in Minnesota - framers, electricians, brick layers, steel workers, you name it) and all you need do is contact the Union.

The people who can't get work right now are the ones who don't want to work

Bullshit rethuglican talking point.

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Labor costs are up 30% this year because we can't get enough men to join the union. Our problem is the scabs are now jumping in because the jobs are being delayed. We are hearing that the hurricanes and the fire are also driving up material costs.

So from where I sit, we have work to give and we can't get enough men. I don't know about Minnesota but maybe you should tell thse guys to move.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

You dink - non-union labor (scabs) generally work cheaper - and now you start to complain about costs? why? I thought you were swamped with work - so apparently costs are not an issue. Like I said - contact the union to have them contact the workers looking for work - but don't expect them to make the move if they can't get a living wage that would allow them to relocate.

Sorry but I believe your BS just about as far as I can toss the Bloomington Minnesota metropolitan stadium which used to be where the Mall of America now is.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 weeks ago

''Trump's Tax Plan and How It Would Affect You'', by Kimberly Amadeo ...

Which ends with .. ''The National Association of Home Builders and the National Association of Realtors oppose increasing the personal deduction and reducing the mortgage deduction. As more US taxpayers take a standard deduction - fewer would take advantage of the mortgage interest deduction. That would lower housing prices. This could be a good time to do that ... since many people are concerned that the real estate market is forming a bubble that could lead to another collapse.''

U don't ''need framers", U lying s-o-b & U are doing a good job of doing that to yourself! IgnoranT cunT.

temet nosce ...

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

We can't get enough men to work. I am in the business, you obviously aren't. Nice language by the way, does that make you feel tough, sitting behind a keyboard?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 weeks ago

You are a fkn "Concern Troll" but NOT concerned with the plight of U$A's 99%!

et temet nosce ...


PS: Did you look at any of the linked evidence, that refuted your Twaddle, which was embedded here...

e tenebris lux?!

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

There you go again with the language. Do you feel powerful behind a keyboard that makes you digress into such behaviour?

I am a middle class person who works with a family and for me, my taxes are going down. Taxes on the wealthy people who live in California and NY and Il and CT ar going up. So what am I against?

All of these sighst you link to are wrong more times than they are right, so you wan tme to believe them? How about all of you smart people, start working for a change and stop trying to change my world. We have listened to you long enough and were did it get us? Out of work. So come on tough guy, spew your venom my way.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

I know a little bit about energy and I can tell you that the so called experts told us that we couldn't extract natural gas.

Part 2 of Do You listen to "yourself"?

What experts are those? Natural gas is a natural byproduct of drilling for fossil fuel as well as mining for it - and is in fact a worse green house gas than is CO - and is leaking (gushing actually) from the active as well as abandoned well heads all across the USA - Metric tons going into the air daily! Now fracking is added to the list for loosing more natural gas into the environment and is also setting off quakes through the process of fracking! Fracking was slowed for a bit by the drop in oil prices - but now with the Saudi Purge the oil prices are shooting up again.

My taxes are decreasing which is good for my family. Deductions on the wealthy are being eliminated. I don't see where you argument is.

You are just a happy camper (top end of middle class?) that does not even consider the tax breaks for the middle class expire in several years (disregarding that those expiring tax breaks only help a minority of the middle class while others = millions will see an immediate tax increase) while wealth care is slated to be permanent.

You are an on site provider of rethuglican propaganda!

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 week ago

The US Department of Energy was the expert who told us that we couldn't get natural gas, which by the way, produces less greenhouse gasses than coal, which is the primary source of energy. This has declined sharply over the past five years. Since you are using electricity to be on this site, I am assuming you cosnume energy.

Nice Hitler reference with the word propaganda, Herr Goebbels.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

Do you even listen to yourself.

Do You listen to "yourself"?

Do you listen to 97% of environmental scientists that global warming is real and that fossil fuel use is a driving force?

I am thinking you do not listen as you also discount authorities on the economy (ones that saw the 2008 meltdown coming and warned against it) and how badly the wealth care tax proposal is gonna hit the middle class and the working poor and still add over a trillion dollars in National Debt.

You are just a happy camper (top end of middle class?) that does not even consider the tax breaks for the middle class expire in several years (disregarding that those expiring tax breaks only help a minority of the middle class while others = millions will see an immediate tax increase) while wealth care is slated to be permanent.

You are an on site provider of rethuglican propaganda!

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Show me where I said anything about global warming? I am in the construction business so I know a little bit about energy and I can tell you that the so called experts told us that we couldn't extract natural gas. This was just over 5 years ago. Looked what happened. And what is the result of this? Coal use is way down, so much so that it is not the primary source of energy. So if you are concerned about global warming, you shouldn't listen to your experts.

My taxes are decreasing which is good for my family. Deductions on the wealthy are being eliminated. I don't see where you argument is.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

produces less greenhouse gasses than coal, which is the primary source of energy.

CH4 is more efficient at trapping radiation than CO2. Pound for pound, the comparative impact of CH4 is more than 25 times greater than CO2 over a 100-year period.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVvWq2yZaW0wAhUYPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTEyMWpqcGpyBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjQ5ODFfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1512524843/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fearthobservatory.nasa.gov%2fFeatures%2fMethaneMatters%2f/RK=2/RS=6KRe1OJLDLUXEKh.3PV72CH_K4w-

"Methane leaks silently from natural gas and oil wells and pipelines, as well as coal mines. It stews in landfills, sewage treatment plants, and rice paddies."

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVvWq2yZaW0wAh0YPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTEyYmNjZWRsBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQjQ5ODFfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1512524843/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.nasa.gov%2fpress%2f2014%2foctober%2fsatellite-data-shows-us-methane-hot-spot-bigger-than-expected%2f/RK=2/RS=1V1bf8kR4cJTw.liqAiJtoOREIc-

"Methane is very efficient at trapping heat in the atmosphere and, like carbon dioxide, it contributes to global warming. The hot spot, near the Four Corners intersection of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah, covers only about 2,500 square miles (6,500 square kilometers), or half the size of Connecticut."

Derelict Oil wells: http://www.climatecentral.org/news/abandoned-oil-wells-methane-emissions-17575

Since you are using electricity to be on this site, I am assuming you cosnume energy.

No Shit Sherlock.

Nice Hitler reference with the word propaganda, Herr Goebbels.

GoFuckYourself ! BTW - what r u doing home on a workday? Not enough work 2 keep u busy - no massive amounts of mandatory overtime?

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 week ago

There you go again, can't get your point across and you start with the curse words. Maybe you should learn a trade?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 weeks ago

Are your Trumpflake Feelings hurt? Aw dedums ;-( U poor li'l Concern Troll,''Construction Worker'' U!

U can't provide evidence for your own thoughts & feelings, which are only based in your own subjective reality, with no connection to OR compassion for, others' objective collective lived experience. So IF our "working for a change'', here on OWS' oldest site, now constitutes ''trying to change my mind''.. then the problem is all yours,U li'l Concern Troll, lol! Such is the dynamic of agon! More repudiation of all U say:

U don't even have to open that link to know exactly what it is about & who it is by AND where he is from!

Thanx for yeT anoTher opporTuniTy To presenT The evidence and informaTion. Now Try reading Them!

Open your mind. Soften your heart. Connect the dots. Employ Positive Systems Analysis. Choose Love;

or ... fck off with ''your venom'' .. lolol!

anguis in herba .. nosce te ipsum!



Re. below .. but I thought that U only accepted trusted, mainstream sources of some repute & standing? U are such a fraud,lol! U "BW81" failed To construcT a new persona - again! wTf d'U Think OWS is for?!

ipsa scientia potestas est ...

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Do you even listen to yourself. You make no sense and link to newspapers - two of which are non US and one is an opinion piece. What?

Have you ever achieved anything in your life as I can tell you don't have a lot of self confidence.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

Thinking without working is impotence. Working without thinking is the Blindness. MENS ET MANUS - Gobbledygook!

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

Tax, including that on inheritance, can either help concentrate wealth and power in a [new] aristocracy or it may, if done for the people instead of the debt slave masters, cause the widespread distribution of wealth and property in such a way that actual freedom and democracy will be possible.

"When the legislator has regulated the law of inheritance, he may rest from his labor. The machine once put in motion will go on for ages, and advance, as if self-guided, towards a given point. When framed in a particular manner, this law unites, draws together, and vests property and power in a few hands: its tendency is clearly aristocratic. On opposite principles its action is still more rapid; it divides, distributes, and disperses both property and power. Alarmed by the rapidity of its progress, those who despair of arresting its motion endeavor to obstruct it by difficulties and impediments; they vainly seek to counteract its effect by contrary efforts; but it gradually reduces or destroys every obstacle, until by its incessant activity the bulwarks of the influence of wealth are ground down to the fine and shifting sand which is the basis of democracy."

Democracy In America, Volume 1; 1835 by Alexis de Toqueville

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 3 weeks ago

The bill right now will take away the deductions that the wealthy use most, so why am I against this?

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

Capitalism is a parasitic disease that threatens the survival of the human race. Owners are parasites who make money from money and/or inherit money and property hoards that threaten our existence. They don't work. We work for them. They don't deserve to exist (we can tax them out of existence without harming a hair on their heads), much less get any tax cut. The mortgage deduction is a middle class tax break. The rich don't get mortgages or pay interest. They loan money at interest for mortgages and everything else. We are in debt bondage to them and the sooner we eliminate their class from the social hierarchy the better chance for survival we will have. WTFU!

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

"They loan money at interest for mortgages and everything else. We are in debt bondage to them" - this is correct and inflation helps debtors and hurts creditors which is why the rich hate it - agreed?

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

yes, debt slavery is abomination like any bondage. inflation just moves money to the top faster, by increased interest rates or bigger take by creditors and so called producers as well. It hurts us more than the rich, who just take in more to compensate,

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

boy you don't want to see it do you. i simply used your words and told you obvious truths - inflation hurts creditors and helps debtors. obvious

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

Obvious but specious. It sounds good but proves to be shallow understanding. In the end it's simply not true.

the creditors raise the interest rates to compensate and the business owners pay less [same number but inflated dollars] to employees and charge more for the goods. so they end up with an even bigger percentage of the handle. they aren't known as the all time winners for nothing and they've still got us by the balls ... inflation or no.

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

take a look at the decade of the 70's and see how that looked - - or better yet take out a nice big 30 yr fixed mortgage and see what you think if inflation kicks up. when you make your monthly payment in cheaper and cheaper dollars - when you put your excess money in cds paying 8% and your mortgage is 4%. and listen to the bankers scream and beg for the next paul volker. or maybe read "the secrets of the temple" - why do you think volker said what he said (about workers standard of living) and did what he did. to help the working class when he was working for the bankers at the fed - come on you are not that stupid are you? so in your last comment do that for me will you - tell me you think volker was trying to help the common man and not working for the banks when he sent the country into a monster recession - sure he did it for you and me not the banks and the rich. you simply need to have a small understanding of class and it becomes obvious - volker is hailed as a great man and if you think that is because he is on the side of the worker then there is no hope for you here.

ok i give up - you are hopeless even when you point it out yourself as in - "They loan money at interest for mortgages and everything else. We are in debt bondage to them." so we can stop - you can say one more time that inflation is good for rich people and i will leave you alone. i will say though that it is hard to see what you are thinking. all you need is a bit of history and and understand of who owns the propaganda system. not sure what is in the water down there but you and rick perry should stop drinking it

[-] 3 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

debt is only one term in the equation. inflation affects all the terms. think it through. your fixation on inflation and debt prevent you from knowing what's really going on.

the greatest most widespread and egalitarian prosperity occurred after WWII. Mostly Nixon and Reagan with the unwitting help of neo liberal idiots like Clinton and Carter, destroyed the good life for most of us.

Desparation leads to insane choices like Trump. Pretending that inflation is good because you have a fixed mortgage is even more desperately specious, as it supports the status quo.

I hope you meant what you said and give up on that shit!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

It's either schizo, misdirection or schizo-misdirection.

Which is very in keeping with current Confederate soldiers (republicans in office as well as their darkmoney support system propagandists) tactics! Opposite speak being another (example: "Drain the swamp" - actually means = expand the swamp to cover the whole of the USA and make it deadly toxic)

Is Narcissistic Multi-personality Disorder a thing?

I don't know - but there are many in office that seem to exhibit such a disease - most especially when they are talking to or about the public.

And then there is Drumpf (dummy narcissist extraordinaire) = it's all (ALL) about Him! (one of his favorite opposite speak sayings: "make America Great Again" = Translation: Burn the place to the ground and leave not one stone standing upon another)

[-] -1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

so now i get it - you don't really know history very well - from wiki -"The post–World War II economic expansion, also known as the postwar economic boom, the long boom, and the Golden Age of Capitalism, was a period of strong economic growth beginning after World War II and ending with the 1973–75 recession.[1]"

mostly nixon/reagan - wow are you off base but all makes sense now. tell me about nixon and bretton woods then please tell me about volker - please please please

one last thing - take a look at the stock market from 1910 to today. you will see a mostly flat line then a steep rise beginning in 1984 until today. that is your reagan/volker revolution and it is why they are so loved by the ruling class - even at msnbc. what makes the markets go up - profits. what makes profits go up - wages going down. learn some history from a class perspective. look at wages from 1945 to 1975 then again 75 to present - especially look at the wages of the bottom 80% of the population. take a look and let me know what you find

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Please explain as I don't get it. I am a simple person so no big words and ideas please.

[-] 3 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

Forget gold. Invest in a dictionary.

"... no big words..."

Seriously?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

He (?) has access to one on-line for free - just copy and paste in his (?) search box. Me think-est this guy (?) is a phony.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

Oh Yeah he is! He isn't even a new member. He's someone's sock puppet and likely one of 3 or 4.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

Absolutely. A Bible, an atlas, a high-quality dictionary, and encyclopedias were the best gifts I got or investments I bought. This was decades before the advent of the internet.

Nowadays, online access to the internet made all of these available at your fingertips if you know where to look. Critical thinking skills have become extremely important for filtering information. There are even many free online courses available for serious education (i.e., not just to be "well-read" but to go far beyond). I lament the widespread lack of critical thinking skills in the U.S. populace and "Russian" interference.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

Oh Yeah he is! He isn't even a new member. He's someone's sock puppet and likely one of 3 or 4.

What is funny - is - it and flipper spouting the same nonsense and yet having a misunderstanding?

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

It's either schizo, misdirection or schizo-misdirection.

Is Narcissistic Multi-personality Disorder a thing?

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

now here is the real left - the friend of the working man - ows at it's finest telling a worker to get a dictionary - nice - chomsky would not be surprised

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

When I started out as a construction worker - Heat and Frost Insulators Local 8 Cincinnati, OH - in 1966, I bought a dictionary and read everything I could get my hands on. When I got my bachelor of science EE at Arizona in the mid 1980s, I knew more about almost everything except the importance of birth class than all the spoiled brats in my college class [of 1987].

that sock puppet you're defending is more pretentious in his phony working class act than I ever have been in my 71 years.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

Yes, of course. "There's no royal road to Geometry," - Aristotle said to Alexander the Great. "But whoever treasures Freedom, like the swallow has learnt to fly." Having run through the gamut of the rainbow's colors, I'm so violet that I've turned purple mum.

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

You guys are all linking to articles from people who have never worked, just thinkers. You all talk about revolution and things that happened 100 years ago. I am not as smart as all of you but I do run my family and my budget so I have real world experience and from where I sit, my taxes are going down and those at the top will pay more.

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

well you seem to be sitting in an ignorant place - a place that ignores history and what is right in front of your eyes. if you think the people in power now want to lower your taxes and raise taxes on the top you are just plain dumb. you can believe what they say if you like but if we have learned anything over the last 60 years it should be - pay attention to what they do and not what they say - that goes for clinton/obama/bush/reagan.

and don't give me that reagan friend of the working man shit. the last one that helped the working man was fdr. well lbj gave us medicare and nixon helped a bit around the edges. here is your assignment - look at a chart of the stock market from 1910 to 2016 and tell me what you see - a fairly flat line from 1910 to 1984 and then up up and away. now what makes the stock market go up - profits. how do you drive profits up - you drive wages down and that is exactly what has happened since the 80s and before.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

people who have lots of money own banks - they lend money to people like us to buy houses and cars. when there is inflation the payments you make to those rich people get smaller and smaller - they don't like that. the rich - the people who sit on piles of cash do not like inflation. it erodes the money they have - often it hurts the stock market where they put their money.

if you watch tv or read the papers inflation is portrayed as a bad thing - who owns the tv and newspapers - the rich! inflation helps debtors - you and me who have mortgages and hurts those who hold our mortgages - obvious to anyone who can put 2 and 2 together - not every one can

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

Please explain as I don't get it. I am a simple person so no big words and ideas please.

Says Joe the Plumber...........sorry.........Construction worker...............

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Are you making fun of me now? Am I not welcome here?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

Are you making fun of me now?

You seem pretty naive for a construction worker. As well as very thin skinned.

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

no they are not - just not so smart. they do not understand much so cut them a break

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Inflation hurts holders of paper; i.e. money and helps holders of hard assets. I have been buying gold and RE because of this and the risk of inflation is what i spurring on bitcoin.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

Do you consider a person who can borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of mortgage to buy a house richer than a person who cannot?

Generally speaking, buying a house requires 20% down payment. Do you consider a person who can come up with that amount of money richer or poorer than the one who cannot? A house is often the most significant asset in a person's life so it's reasonable to use it as a prevalent example for consideration.

Let us say the house costs $400,000. The buyer pays $80,000 down payment. The financial institution loans $320,000. Let's say inflation runs at 2% a year. The person effectively gets a reprieve of $320,000 x 2% a year = $6,400 a year initially. Let's say the interest on the mortgage of $320,000 is 6% a year. The mortgage interest paid is $320,000 x 6% a year = $19,200 a year. Let's say the person is in the 40% tax bracket so deducting this mortgage interest on the income tax return reduces the tax liability by $19,200 x 40% = $7,680. By buying a house, the person gets $6400 + $7,680 = $14,080 in reduced financial obligation. Do this for 30 years of the mortgage and the governmental subsidy through inflation and taxes amounts to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This was the source of the greatest financial disparity between the Blacks and the Whites. Blacks have lower rates of house ownership so they get much less governmental subsidy, not to mention the GI Bill governmental subsidy for college education that enabled the Whites predominantly to get the well-paying jobs which allowed them to borrow the mortgages. Then there was also the practice of "redlining" to target the Blacks specifically. Do these discriminations for a long time and we see why "Black is Black. All your babies are Black." It's institutionalized racial injustice.

[-] 0 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

No, inflation hurts the lender, not the borrower. If I borrow 10 dollars today and inflation increases by 50% then I have to only pay back the $10 dollars, which can purchase 50% less goods. As a construction worker, I have been borrowing as I think interest rates are going up.

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

right on - obvious - take out a 30 year mortgage when you see inflation coming - the bank will hate you

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

When has inflation NOT been coming, huh?

When it just threatened not to be coming, the Federal Reserve worked overtime (even using dubious and devious schemes) to create it.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

i guess you never heard of the depression. and how long have all central banks tried to bring back inflation - is it working? japan has suffered through deflation for 25 years and no end in sight

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

Here's a definitive proof that the U.S. economy is humming along well: https://www.yahoo.com/news/arrest-florida-road-rage-shooting-161214667.html

In poor economy, fewer vehicles are on the roadways and there are fewer traffic congestions, and far fewer road-rage incidents. Our economy is doing the opposite, "catching fire and throwing off sparks" as you can see by watching the video.

This may be an exotic and macabre lagging economic indicator but it can make you Big Money as a confirmation signal. I do wish you well in your financial endeavor. The GDP also grows when raging and innocent unfortunate people replace their vehicles after the "creative destructions." For example, housing starts after the destructions of Harvey, Irma, and Maria should have picked up. Learn from the ancient Wisdom of the Chinese Civilization: 危机 -- Chaos breeds Opportunity. Three cheers for our "Boom! - ing" economy - Hip, Hip, Hurray! Hip, Hip, Hurray! Hip, Hip, Hurray!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

When did that depression occur? Of course, central banks succeeded. In the U.S., we are humming along very well, much earlier than our FrisCo had aimed for, 3% real GDP growth.

Japan's case is due to its large aging population dropping out of the workforce but Japan doesn't bring in young immigrants due to the desire for preserving their racial purity and cultural homogeneity. It's a choice that Japan made. In a country with a declining working population, even with everyone working producing more, the aggregate GDP can still fall. It's Nothing to fret over, except for the unrealistic infinite-growth (Japan's urban areas are very much overcrowded already so more breathing room makes good sense) national psyche. Last I checked, if you have a pension or steady income, Japan still has an Excellent quality of life, much greener (with many splattered-here-and-there parks), safer (oh, yeah, I'd be very happy even if Jew Jerk were only half as good), and cleaner and better-mannered than most of Japan's neighbors (especially Red China which has
very loud AND rude people [holdover attitude from Communist days perhaps?] puffing smoke in restaurants {and terrible smog outdoors}, spitting in the streets (I thought U.S. chewing gums stuck to shoe soles were bad enough but wait till you had tried someone's sputum stuck on the pavements in Red China!), cars-not-yielding-but-running-over-pedestrians-crossing-streets around the street corners).

Germany has very likely warded off THIS perceived GDP-decline "problem" with its absorption of the immigrant and refugee influx. It was too unfiltered for my taste but I understand that the U.S. has been dealing with massive immigration for at least a century already with numbers often far exceeding Germany's -- so yeah, a virgin doesn't do sex well on the first night but how do you get to Carnegie Hall's rendézvous? Practice, practice, practice! I believe in Germany's ability to turn them into productive and valuable German citizens.

Remember Steve Jobs building Apple, Inc. His American birthmother was fucked in more sense than just the literal one but it had turned out well, hadn't it? It had long been speculated even decades ago that he had Arabian heritage (Arabs had an eye for choosing, breeding, and trading {famed Arabian} horses). It turned out that it was a Syrian exchange student who sired him. Great fuck!

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

you are a waste of time - our economy is humming along well. sure if you own stocks and make big money. the bottom 80% of the population is struggling - everyone knows that except you it seems. you are the worst kind of windbag - one that makes no sense

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

The bank does NOT hate you because the credit it loaned you had probably been created "out of thin air." The cost to the bank is very low. A bank's cashier check issued for the mortgage is just ink printed on fancier paper that the house seller believes as holding value.

I used to wonder why I got so many no-annual-fee-credit-card solicitations from credit card companies. It cost them to send me the solicitations. It cost them to print the solicitations. It cost them to send me the credit cards. It cost them to process the credit transactions I made. It cost them to bill me to pay them back. There were even other benefits such as a few percentage points of cash back, free travel insurance, free credit report watch and theft or shoddy merchandise insurance, discounts on gasoline purchases, hotel stays, and airplane tickets, no interest charged on outstanding balance for months, etc. Are the credit card companies social do-gooders to me?

NO! Then what gives? My Mom told me that the wool was sheared from the fur of the sheep. I was the sheep and the credit card companies held the shears to fleece me with, duh!

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

if you were right you would see our rulers cheering when inflation is 5 - 6 -10% - come on. it is obvious that inflation favors workers and hurts the wealthy. obvious on many levels

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Sorry, I am not as well read as you are as I don't understand what you mean.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

are you responding to me?? you wrote this - " I have been borrowing as I think interest rates are going up." - i wrote this - "take out a 30 year mortgage when you see inflation coming - the bank will hate you." not sure how well read one needs to be here. if you take out a 30 yr fixed mortgage at 4% and 15 yrs from now inflation has made your $1000 monthly payment feel like $500 you will be happy and the bank very unhappy. when your mortgage rate is 4% and the bank is paying 7% on cds you will be happy and the bank not - some here have trouble understanding that??

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

until they pull another sheep shearing by collapsing the market and putting your mortgage under water. Then they lay you off and you lose again. Self employed or some other job security? you are the exception, not the rule. and you can still go under in hard times.

all this has happened before and it will all happen again ... and again ... and again

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

I don't think flip cares nor do I think he is who he is pretending to be - he seems to me to be like a locked step confederate soldier, more than just a blind idiot.

I mean - sure - he could be a totally clueless idiot - but that just does not seem likely - one does not spend all of this time on a site that refutes his crap with real evidence and then still believe republican/confederate crap.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

Re: Flip's last comment on this thread; You rebel without a clue! what makes you think you or any narcissistic clown knows anything about right and wrong.

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

sure the big short and then a crash again and again. the system is rotten we know that. what does that have to do with inflation and debt. takes a big man to say he is wrong - you're wrong. ha! now go on with grapes and dk - i will read up more on confederate thinking??

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

No, I agree with you.

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

What do you mean the rich don't get mortgages? How do they buy their houses?

Why are you cursing at me?

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

you and I define rich much differently. Wake the fuck up is not a curse. It's a plea for you to open your eyes and see reality. Yeah, I know. It's pointless to ask a libertarian to actually think about anything. Yall filter everything through your ideology just like the conservatives who're destroying the economy and threatening the survival of the human race with their stupidity and greed.

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Sorry, I am a construction worker and in my world when somebody uses the F word, that means we will speak in a different way, a much mire physical and aggressive way. I don't quite understand you educated people and the way you speak. You want to put me in some libertarian category - not quiet sure why or what it means - and talk about the destruction of the human race. I have to get up everyday and go to work. I don't get the luxury you have of grand thoughts. I worry about feeding my family and paying off my mortgage.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 weeks ago

READ ALL ABOUT IT "Construction worker" in issues about bad language, SHOCK! lol. Get real!

Clearly you're not as rich as you'd like to be, on account of still having a "mortgage"!!! USA's 0.01%, do NOT pay off mortgages - they lend fiat money & collect interest & NOT satisfied with that .. they sell the mortgage contracts as ''investment vehicles & innovative financial products'' and sell the debts .. if hard to recover!! Such is the nature of life, debt and compound interest. in these days of Totalitarian Banking Oligarchy in The U$A! Try all or any combination of, the following links...

and/or watch:

That last video link is the real doozey here, which will enlighten you the most - in the shortest time .. if you're pushed for time n' all. Love to the "family" +NB: http://occupywallst.org/forum/money-and-debt/

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

The rich generally get mortgages and other types of loans, too. Generally, they borrow vastly more than the rest of the people. The most important form of their borrowing is for short-term liquidity relief. The rich generally own vastly more in real assets that have huger amounts of loans on them than cash so it's reasonable that they borrow short term at zero or very low interest rates (to avoid the Terrible compounding of interest). This is why in a financial crash, the Federal Reserve lowers interest rates aggressively in the hope that these heavily leveraged rich people in business do Not go bankrupt.

I doubt that Flip knows the finances of many rich people. He argues for why inflation is good for the common people. I say if it's so good, let them take their U.S. dollars and move to high-inflation Venezuela which probably loves to be inundated by this (imaginary) dollar deluge.

Of course, there are indeed some rich people who have tons and tons of cash, often from shady sources, such as drug dealing and overseas power corruption and briberies. They pay cash for a very good reason. Another kind of rich people is from countries with unsound financial systems or where the government is on the prowl like the Mafia (e.g., Russia) so for them, cash is king, being less traceable and more anonymous.

However, most rich people OWN businesses. They DON'T own much cash. Cash IS Trash but too little of it kills their businesses so they try to hold the minimal amount of cash to ward off bankruptcy. They know the game of inflation and taxes very well. That's the main reason why they are RICH!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 3 weeks ago

It's been a long time since we had a conservative on the site.

Just for fun how do you figure tax has already been paid on the money in estates?

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 3 weeks ago

How was the money put there in the first place? It was either 1099 income or capital gains. BTW, I am neither party, an electrical worker. I think most of this is BS.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

forgive him he doesn't understand much - that said - yes tax has already been paid so it is double taxation. just like sales tax and toll roads and fees and potholes. seems to me that taxing everything over 10 -20- or 100 million is not so unfair. very few ways to get that kind of money that aren't exploitation of some worker - electrical or garment or shoemaker. and how much does anyone need really - would you want to leave your children 2 billion$ - would that be good for them? well anyway the rich don't pay estate tax really - 'Only morons pay the estate tax,' says White House's Gary Cohn

check out michael hudson for some interesting thoughts on wealth - from adam smith and other real free marketers

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 weeks ago

It's actually much worse than double taxation. For a young worker striving to rise economically starting from zero networth, the person tends to work for others due to the lack of capital (to acquire tools of the trade, licenses, production equipments, a venue for production and its rents, property taxes, utilities, maintenance etc., etc.) When some wage income is earned, income taxes, FICA, and Medicare taxes are paid. This is the first taxation.

The wage earner must spend some earnings to stay alive and provide for his/her family. That involves paying sales tax, real estate property tax for the dwelling, etc. This is the second taxation.

If the wage earner is thrifty and accumulates measly sums over time to more significant savings that gained interest. That interest is taxed throughout the entire duration of decades. This is the second taxation.

If the person dies and the estate pays taxes, this is the third taxation.

Now contrast that with what the wealthy could do with all the no-tax exchanges and transfers of wealth and properties. They don't get the eternal grind on small interest income that the worker pays. They are allowed depreciation to defray their incomes. Where is the depreciation allowance for the worker for the loss of the productive capacity over time? None!

Meanwhile the wealthy rig the system to proliferate this break or that break in our tax code through political groovying and wait for an eventual tax amnesty from our local turkeys, Idiot, and morons.

Our system is grossly unfair. The Bible says "there is a time for everything" but sideslamming a smoothly running U.S. economy with multitrillion-dollar tax cut is extremely Bad Timing. Adding trillions of dollars to the national debt in boom times is absolutely idiotic. The U.S. debt to GDP ratio has gone well beyond 100% already at which other economies had gotten into deep economic troubles. If we don't reign in the debt in boom times, are we going to do it in bust times when it becomes nearly impossible without our people incurring great hardship? No, so into economic non-credibility we will go. Do we really see ourselves being in our future place with sovereign default countries such as Russia, Brazil, Argentina, etc.? Or for a more recent poignant example soon, take a look at Venezuela. I don't ever want THAT here and of course, I DON'T want that in Venezuela, either.

I prefer our Kingty FrisCo on his Throne in the People's Temple being able to swipe at the roll of abundantly provided tissue paper to cover up the smell of the Trumpery links of the Swamp in Pounding Laundry, District of Cleanliness.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

other than the "system is unfair" which is obvious i am not sure what you are trying to say.

right now real estate taxes are a tax deduction - they want to eliminate that since it is a blue state issue i guess. secondly any interest income is new income so not really double taxed but these are minor points.

we know the wealthy rig the system but i don't really understand what exactly you are for and against - can you say it more simply?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 weeks ago

All interest collected that is below the rate of inflation is the return on the original capital so it should be completely tax exempt. Inflation is produced by the U.S. government/national-bank cartel (as well as DPRK's Room 39 which also trafficks illicit drugs killing people such as our opiod addicts) so taxing interest gives great incentive for the cartel to create persistent inflation, to steal purchasing power wherever it resides WITHOUT overtly breaking into everyone's financial reserve denominated in U.S. dollars.

It is incredulous that China owning TRILLIONS of dollars worth of U.S. dollar reserve condones DPRK counterfeiting the U.S. dollar! China even has black market operations to aid the global drug trafficking and money laundering being done for the DPRK killing drug addicts everywhere and squeezing All renters of housing through higher rents by "gentrification" well known to and pushed for by the globally connected denizens of the Swamp.

Why does the U.S. NOT invade Saudi Arabia to occupy and take the Saudis' oil as long as they require the U.S. dollar for purchasing their oil? The U.S. can create dollars "out of thin air" and they become instantaneously valuable for purchasing something very real and needed -- oil -- from the Saudis. This is why Saudi Arabia is the MOST important ally of the U.S. in the Middle East. Maybe it is this relation supporting the over-100% national-debt-to-GDP ratio of the U.S. but this relation seems to be fraying with Russia and Saudi Arabia starting to collude on oil price.

This is why Russia is a very Dangerous enemy of the World, especially of the U.S. because of its global undermining of the U.S. alliance underpinning the prosperity and peace of the World {the post-WWII period is the GREATEST ever for global economic and well-being growth for U.S. allied countries/territories: Japan, BRD of West Germany and later on the reunified Germany, the four Asian Tigers: Nationalist (ROC) China in Taiwan, ROK in South Korea, BCC and later on independent city state in Singapore, BCC and later on SAR of PRC in Hong Kong, and many others - the most noteworthy of all is the freeloading-on-Pax-Americana Red National-Socialist (PRC) China, though neither a military nor a political ally but the most important economic-relation kabuki "partner" in the World}. British Crown Colony (BCC) and/or Special Administrative Region (SAR) may be good administrative models for governing the possibly post-(nucleo-?)bellum North Korea (which may have had experience with its own Sinuiju SAR) in reunified Korea.

The tax proposals in Congress are being discussed at this wrong time, about eight years too late.

If we do away with All of the non-essential tax interference in the economy, we'll be far better off in the long run. Of course, realistically, we cannot do so because every single time we had tried at simplifying the tax system, it actually became more complicated.

When halcyon is blowing well, why should we conjure up a storm to whip up our sails?

Estate tax should be repealed mostly but due to the compounding of interests, we MUST have very stiff estate tax rates for larger fortunes. Historically, interest rate charged is around inflation rate + 3%. Note that the tagged-on 3% is vastly higher than the long-term real (i.e., adjusted for inflation) growth rate of the U.S. economy so the excess amount of interest is inflationary when spent. Our government has the obligation to compensate for this financial tumor growth by chipping it away at estate distribution time.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 2 weeks ago

damnit grapes you almost started to make sense for a moment, starting off with that "it's actually much worse than.." threw me for a minute but you seem to get on track by the end...the answer to the debt is tax the crap out of the rich, start off by removing all preference for cap gains and dividends and add a "millionaires tax" say around 50% rate

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

"Democracy in America," by Alexis de Tocqueville says: that as soon as the legislature regulates inheritance, their job is done. Depending on how it's regulated, it will either concentrate wealth and power in a new aristocracy or it may, if done in the opposite sense, cause the distribution of wealth and property such that actual freedom and democracy will be possible.

"When the legislator has regulated the law of inheritance, he may rest from his labor. The machine once put in motion will go on for ages, and advance, as if self-guided, towards a given point. When framed in a particular manner, this law unites, draws together, and vests property and power in a few hands: its tendency is clearly aristocratic. On opposite principles its action is still more rapid; it divides, distributes, and disperses both property and power. Alarmed by the rapidity of its progress, those who despair of arresting its motion endeavor to obstruct it by difficulties and impediments; they vainly seek to counteract its effect by contrary efforts; but it gradually reduces or destroys every obstacle, until by its incessant activity the bulwarks of the influence of wealth are ground down to the fine and shifting sand which is the basis of democracy."

Democracy In America, Volume 1; 1835 by Alexis de Toqueville

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 2 weeks ago

Green voters are such dupes....have fun playing with your con.

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 3 weeks ago

Seems pretty simple to me, if you use a road you pay a fee. The government has already received its share of the money when it takes the estate tax. I am not one of the wealthy ones but I think there should be no insider deals and by definition the wealthy are the ones who are benefiting from the home mortgage deduction and the state tax deduction. These make no sense, why have them?

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

fees and taxes - what is the difference - minor if any really. the ny state thruway was built and paid for by tolls which were supposed to be eliminated when it was totally paid for. they were not so that is a tax no?

i am very middle class and i own a home and pay plenty of nj tax.

as you say the system is rigged so how to make it more fair is the question. i say tax the shit out of inheritance over a certain number - it can be a big number but nobody and i mean nobody needs billions

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 3 weeks ago

That's my point, so why should I be against this tax bill. The wealthy all live in California and NY and they get to deduct their state taxes and they all all own million dollar homes where they deduct the mortgage interest. The bill will take this away. To me, this is nothing but a give away as they never pay taxes on this money. I don't care about the inheritance tax as that money has already been taxed.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

for sure your taxes will go up and those of the really wealthy (the .01%) will go down - that is why you should care. this is just a continuation of what has gone on for the last 40 years - and sadly the dems have been complicit. get real here - the wealthy do not all live in ny and ca - that is a dumb comment - nobody rich in dallas or houston or memphis? no million dollar home anywhere but ny and ca???

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Yes, the states of CA and NY have the most wealthy tax payers in the nation and are the two of the states with the highest real estate prices. That is not to say that TX or TN don't have wealthy people and houses as well, but those states either have low income taxes or no income taxes, so it does not matter.

I am a middle class construction worker with a family and for me, my taxes will decrease. i am all for eliminating loop holes that the wealthy use to avoid taxes and the mortgage interest and state tax deductions are two of those. So taxes will go up on those wealthy people who use those.

In a new report on wealth in America, wealth intelligence firm Wealth-X revealed that California has more super-wealthy residents than New York.

California now has 13,445 people who are worth more than $30 million, while New York has only 9,530. Texas (6,475) and Florida (4,650) followed in third and fourth place".

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

get back to me in a year or two and let me know if your taxes have gone down.i am betting you pay more - the rich need to pay less and you and the rest of the middle is where they will get there money. we own llc and our taxes will go down big. good luck to you - you will pay more

[-] -1 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

But if my rate is going down, why will I pay more? And the wealthy will pay more as they are eliminating their deductions.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

i would say to keep in mind the "golden rule" - those with the gold make the rules. yes they will tell you they are trying to help you and they will lower your rate but they lie. time will tell but the taxes on those making probably $50,000 to 3 or $400,000 will be paying more tax and those making really big money will pay less.

one way to see what will happen to you is to look at history - what has happened to taxes over the last 50-60 years. taxes paid by the rich and corporations have gone down and taxes on working people have gone up. if you think that trend will change i am very doubtful - as i said get back to me in two years and let me know how it has worked out for you

[-] 0 points by grapes (5051) 2 weeks ago

The Tea Party faction of the GOP shut down the government in 2010 to force so-called fiscal discipline on the Federal Government. They won because the GOP sort-of keeled over and signed on to sequestration, an automated budget cutting process.

If you run your life with sequestration, when you have a one-quarter shortfall in your budget due to income drop, you remove one wheel from your four-wheeled car, you saw one leg off from your four-legged table and four-legged chairs. We have already seen frequent mishaps in the Seventh Fleet whose patrolling district includes the Pacific Ocean, the greatest ocean in the World. Yes, the very stupid sequestration has already reared its ugly head. We are "driving" a car with only three wheels, trying to sit on a chair with one leg removed, and trying to work on a table with one leg sawed off. Have you watched the tragic-comedic Orange-Clownty show from Pounding Laundry, District of Cleanliness, yet?

Who will pay for the shortfall in budget to give the wealthy people their reductions in estate taxes, corporate taxes, and income taxes? The rest of the people, of course!

Brother, sense where you belong, duh!

Estate tax and corporate tax cuts are permanent but the middle-class tax reductions and Medicare spending are set to auto-expire. Your taxes will go down a little bit then shoot back up and more to provide for the wealthy people's tax savings under sequestration. There will be the willy-nilly budget cuts. I expect Medicare and Social Security to bear the brunt of the cuts eventually (there will be Huge medical insurance bills when Medicare expires automatically because there had Never been any "Trust" fund - it has always been pay-as-we-go but now the fleeced Baby Boomers have started to collect on the Medicare benefits promised them, Medicare will simply be vaporized over time) because Medicaid would have already been cut so much that it cannot be cut anymore. Zeroing-a-zero gains nothing but I am sure that "the Freedom-Cock-US" will try because sequestration has worked so very well to greatly slow the U.S. economic recovery as well as to produce the Greatest FrisCo Show on Earth.

When Social Security taxes went way up in the 1980s to build up the "Social Security [Don't-]Trust Fund," the tax rates went from 6.5% down to 6.2% and 1.45% for Medicare. Isn't 6.2% less than 6.5%? Yes! Isn't 1.45% less than 6.5%? Absolutely! Why did we say "Ouch!" when we received our tax "cuts" and saw the netpay amounts of our paychecks having become smaller? Think!

"The wool comes from the fur of the sheep," my Mom told me sheepishly, perhaps of my lost prepuce. I suppose it was my burnt offering to God, under sequestration in a hospital, to atone for my golden-shower bedwetting Sin. 》Ja, ja, Hologeschnitt! 《

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

This is all speculation as my rate is going down and I am middle class. The largest tax break the wealthy get are the home mortgage and state income tax deductions. These are going away so they will pay more, not less.

I am all for reducing spending so I have no sympathy for the 7th Fleet. I work everyday and nearly half of the country doesn't. We need to put people back to work.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 2 weeks ago

oh don't be shy you're a fucking conservative, but I'll play are you saying things people own never increase in value? you do realize cap gains are paid when the asset is sold don't you? but really can you find any money that hasn't been taxed at some point so why are wages taxed? that money has been taxed as well

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 2 weeks ago

Nice language, tough guy. Do you beat your wife also?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

liars bring out the best in me

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 week ago

Showing your true colors, a dim witted thug!!!

[-] 4 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 week ago

Note that..''THE GOP PLAN IS THE BIGGEST TAX INCREASE IN AMERICAN HISTORY, BY FAR!"..

Re.''Showing your true colors", lolol, so, how about U .. not be such a pseudo-intellectual, effete, snob?

temet nosce ...

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 week ago

Great, quoting something called the intercept. Come on what happened to your anger? I thought you were going to beat me up/

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 week ago

The only time violence was considered against U ... was a speculative plan to track U down, to a beach in Bali or a diner near Detroit or a mall in Montreal - and have your thumbs broken for excessive trolling against OWS and this site back in the day! These days U are just a useful idiot. Now go try to consider:

Of course U won't be reading this mais alors, bien sure - these & other links are actually the real reason I ever reply to your RW, Concern-Troll ass! Dare U to read one or more of these links? Sadly .. I doubt it, as like so many RW-wingnuts, tRUMP-ass kissers, U will not engage with the facts of 99%'s oppression!

Now consider ... ''In America, the world’s richest country, hookworm - a parasitic disease found in areas of extreme poverty, is rampant, the first study of its kind in modern times shows.''

Finally, to understand https://theintercept.com/ - U really need to research the journalist, Jeremy Scahill.

anguis in herba - nosce te ipsum!

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 week ago

Jobs still going up. The only people you represent are the college educated. And you people are all a bunch of liars. Pass laws that your own people won't adhere to. Al franken?

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

I'm sure you're dead center in the contemporary Gaussian distribution of intellect and knowledge.

It's sad. The world most probably ends this way.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 week ago

He's far brighter than he makes out but still dumb as fk! And that's one of U$A's major problems!! The arrogance of ignorance - with added hubris, denial & rejection of new facts or information - which may contradict: Existing Deep MSM Mind Management ... resulting in: Cognitive Dissonance; Confirmation Bias; Stockholm Syndrome & so Propagandized Turkeys Voting For Thanksgiving!!! More rewardingly:

e tenebris lux ...

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

Normal, whether mean or orthogonal, applied to average intelligence, whether relatively bright or dim, diminishes apprehension of reality.

"He's far brighter than he makes out but still dumb ..."

Can't argue with that.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 days ago

May our kingty FrisCo get a handjob or a coo-coo blowjob from you, now that our press corps has found him unfit for either toilet cleaning or shoe shining? He needs some job after his paperjob.

I had been expecting for a long while that he would be found unfit for toilet cleaning because he would clog it up, by flushing and overflowing the Swamp after his paperjob. Eat your heart out, Venezuela (FrisCo adores China's "breakthrough" invention of {horsey greenback, for Americana, and for overpowering the stench, scented too-thin tissue} paper, for "soaking up the Swamp"). This is the under-the-bed chamber-pot poo-tin-ium-swamp hotel-America at dusk!!!

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 3 days ago

"Taxes are going up on the wealthy, and going down on me." - sure and elon musk will colonize mars and we will all drive teslas and have a wonderful life - thanks to mr trump. get back to me in a year or so about your taxes - and for sure the gop will raise taxes on their donors - and themselves - sure. grow up - academic my ass.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 6 days ago

I got a question for you where the those church people stand on the death penalty?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 6 days ago

You vote for Drumpf and bring up Al Franken, that's funny!

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 1 week ago

workforce participation still down so are wages - what is your position on that? as to your comment on laws you are kidding right? anybody from your side broke a law that you can think of or is it just franken and conyers? and for what we here at ows represent - it is the 99%. who do you speak for - seems it is the few whose taxes will go down under the current plan. if you are who you say you are then you will be paying more in a few years there is not doubt about that!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 1 week ago

Workforce participation will likely be down for quite a long while as the Baby Boomers retire in huge numbers year after year. They have waited for eight years to return to the workforce but the Retard-I-Can'ts blocked the needed fiscal stimulus. After eight years, people must have found some resolutions one way or another by now. Some have probably killed themselves as the mortality rate for white males had increased. Some might have moved in with their children's families to become grandchildren's babysitters. Some may be couch-hopping with boyfriends or girlfriends to survive. Some went on social security disability, perhaps. Some might have moved back to their countries of origin, perhaps for help from relatives and clans.

Japan has a similar problem with workforce participation due to its decades-long recession. However, Japan has the possibility of increasing its women's workforce participation rate, in contrast to the U.S. women who are already working mostly.

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 4 days ago

Sorry Charlie, you are kidding yourselves if you think you academic elites represent us, the working class. You don't. We want jobs and we are getting them. We want the government out of our business, and we are getting it. Taxes are going up on the wealthy, and going down on me. Construction wages are up big, anybody who wants a job gets it. We work, I am not sure what you academics do.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5051) 1 week ago

I think you can benefit from my experience with my neighborhood-boy playmate. You can draw him your experience with your pubescent babysitter and a schematic diagram of her genitalia. After his critical review, he may ask a very scientific question about her multi-holes and urine's specific passage and propose, for seeking the Truth, a joint "field research" project (which would have been aborted, were the pap-test image available to "the New-Archimedes/Phoenix" preschoolers). Maybe without government's pap-test image available to you, you are here doing "field research" with or for him.

You show him that you've discovered the joy of playing with your naturally cool attached marbles between your legs and he tells you that it is so Retard-I-Can't that he proceeds to e-duc-ate you of his advanced techniques on the bud. Unlike Albert Einstein's "layer of prejudice laid down before the age of 18," the Advanced e-duc-ation you Need to get, so that you can use it all your life to seek the Truth and ENJOY!

There is college education but there is ALSO under-the-bed chamber-pot poo-tin-ium e-duc-ation to seek Ecstasy and the Truth. Probably 90% or more of men are wankers with claws and a pussy on the head, college educated or otherwise! Все женщины в России красивы!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

are you so dim you think you are fooling anyone? that can't be after all you type, so you know we know you're a shiteating con yet still you want to play? that's cute!

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 week ago

Since there are only three of you knuckleheads left on this site, I would think you would welcome the interest. I think the revolution has passed you by, oops...did someone forget to tell you. Ha Ha!!!!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

I think there are 4, it is a mark of the conservative to start with a lie, all conservatives are lying assholes.

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 4 days ago

There you go again, can't control yourself. Love how pious you are!!!

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1939) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 days ago

Gee! You sound just like Ronald Reagan. Is He your hero-god? The wide eyed child asked adoringly.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 day ago

So now your real opinion comes out. You are afraid of gay people?

Am I afraid of Gay People? No and My comment wasn't about Gay People - though You would like it to be taken as such. No My comment was about You Being a Prostitute for the wealthy few or do they even pay you? Could You Just Be a freebee whore for them?!

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 day ago

Ronald Reagan was pious? He was a long time ago before my time, so I have no idea what you are getting at, old man. Go back to you rocker.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33315) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 days ago

Couldn't comment on ur other comment - so - figured I would do it here.

you are kidding yourselves if you think you academic elites

The only elitist stench around here - has been coming from you OH happy with Wealth Care/Austerity to the poor!

BTW - Be careful - you sounded like you were choking on another elitists cock _ who was that Ayn Ryan or McConAll or Drumpf?

Have you asked your Dr. if you are healthy enough to suck elitist cock?

[-] -3 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 day ago

So now your real opinion comes out. You are afraid of gay people? Go home old man. Gay people can marry now. Just because you are getting any from your old wife at home you don't need to be so nasty.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8780) from Phoenix, AZ 3 days ago

yep I'm known for pointing out truth

[-] -2 points by BrentWeirick81 (27) 1 day ago

What, no vile diatribe this time? Thought better of it?