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Forum Post: ✭ Let's use Direct Democracy right here, right now. On this forum! ✭

Posted 3 years ago on Aug. 31, 2014, 5:40 p.m. EST by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Let's be the first to show the world that direct democracy works.

I believe in teaching by example.

How can we ask others to use direct democracy if we don't even use it ourself.

Let's turn this jartocarcy into a direct democracy.

Should there be signup for new users everyday, never, or like struggleforfreedom80 mentioned once a month? These are the types of questions the whole forum community should answer together.

105 Comments

105 Comments


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[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Why was the sign up closed? Perhaps it has to do with a management issue such as a growth rate that was too fast,or people creating multiple identities? I would need more information about why the signup was closed before I could offer advice on the matter.Jart remains silent,and she may have good reason-or at least some reason.I am ignorant about how one goes about administering a forum like this,and what the difficulties are.Maybe Jart doesn't want to complain and does not want to kill the forum either.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Why was the sign up closed?

This going to be the only comment that I make on this post.

The sign-up sheet was closed due to thrashingmasks use of sock puppets ( the creation and use of multiple aliases ). jart thought it might help in stopping this activity. How long will the sign-up sheet be down? I don't know. Hopefully long enough for jart to ferret out the remaining sock puppets of this individual prior to reopening. But considering it is still here - I don't think that jart has been very active in deleting it's remaining aliases yet.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

erase the past ?

what for ?

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Lol, the DKAtoday fantasy. Dude, jart doesn't even speak to you. She banned you for a good reason. You and the rest of the Twinkle Team.

[+] -4 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Perhaps it has to do with a management issue such as a growth rate that was too fast

You believe the site was suffering from an out of control user growth rate?

I would need more information about why the signup was closed before I could offer advice on the matter.Jart remains silent,and she may have good reason-or at least some reason

Essentially the slave position. Master knows best, so don't ask too many questions.

I guess you like a jartocracy more so than a democracy.

Are you a jartocrat?

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

I do think there is no such thing as a stupid question.So I asked a question.Do I like Jart? The answer is-Yes.Do I think people who have complaints should somehow have their complaints addressed? Yes,I do.Do I consider myself qualified to second guess decisions made by a person like Jart? Not really.If Jart maintains a remote, mysterious presence and does not respond to complaints,that would be pretty unfair if a new forum could not be started by people who are fed up with this forum.I don't have the tech skills to do such a thing,or connections with anyone who does.The time and effort it would take to mount a successful insurrection to depose Jart could instead produce another forum that is controlled by whatever means.You might get what you want quicker that way than trying to communicate with a Distant,Sphinxlike Entity.You may now shower and blast me with sarcasm&hostility.A person such as I am is of little use to you because of my Fence Sitting Propensity.As a collector of profanities and colorful insults,I await your pleasure.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

858-483-3822

can a get a witness ?

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

thanks for calling BradB

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

I wasn't asking if you liked jart.I do as well. I was asking if you were a jartocrat and supported the current jartocracy over a forum run by direct democracy.

Jart maintains a remote, mysterious presence and does not respond to complaints,that would be pretty unfair

Yes, this is exactly what is happening.

She doesn't use the site, does not participate, but she controls from afar by banning users and shutting the signup process. She does not respond to people sending her emails and asking questions. It's a full on jartocracy.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Well-Another Forum Is Possible.I agree with your argument that the whole entire System must be scrapped.I don't believe in Bernie,or E.Warren or any of the rest of them.People who believe a Democrat or Democrat Type politician is going to Rise and Shine should ask the most loyal block of voters the Democrats have-African Americans-how 40 years of voting for Democrats is working out.Nevertheless,what they have to say matters a great deal.At least they want things better and don't blame Poors for their troubles,while obsessively and compulsively rimming the buttholes of The Evil Rich because The Evil Rich supposedly "started with nothing," Also those who wish for the Graveyard of Progressive Movements to produce Salvation do know the history of attempts to reform Capitalism,and where such efforts have gotten us.So there is that.I say No more Cops.No more Owners.No more bosses.More and more people are agreeing with me every day.

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Well, it's nice to see we agree.

The problem with Democrat shills on this forum is two fold.

1) If they believe what they do, then they should work to create a political party like the After Party of Micah White, or push for Democrats in venues that are seen by many. This site is only for a few occupiers. Why would they waste all their time advertising here?

2) Since we are so few, having two Democrat shills that post all the time makes it difficult for the few other occupiers to talk about real occupy stuff.

One option would be to have a special forum category designed especially for those that want to campaign for the Democrats. That way people like me who want to talk about occupy issues could come to the site without having to go through all the pro Dem postings.

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

quote>>> "...That way people like me who want to talk about occupy issues ..."

really ??? ... I don't recall you ever taking about issues... I only see you criticizing the site, the admin's and the members...

am I wrong ? ... where's a link to a discussion on an issue ?..

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Yes, you are indeed very wrong.

This very post you are commenting on is about a very important Occupy issue. It's about how the site should be run. It's about having direct democracy to run the site instead of a jartocracy. This is important, because I believe in teaching by example. If we can't use direct democracy to run our business, then I don't think we have a right to tell others to do so.

Criticism is very important. It's a way to improve things.

If you don't think I'm posting and commenting about Occupy issues, take a step back and read again. Perhaps you missed something.


It's even more ironic because not only is this posting about an occupy issue, the most important at the moment actually, but the very comment you replied to above is also about an occupy issue of importance (dem infiltrators and how they affect us.)

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

well ... it could be an issue... if you didn't use it to criticize Jart

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

You are seeing it the wrong way.

Talking about this important issue requires criticizing jart because she is the problem behind this issue. She is the one who wants a jartocracy. I think it's important to criticize those who don't operate with the best interest of the 99%. That's what occupy is all about. Nobody should be considered immune to criticism.

It's scary. Jart created a jartocracy, and you are telling us we should not be allowed to criticize her for it. It's like you are brainwashed. Like those who refuse to criticize Kim Jung II even though what he does is not in their best interest.

It's not for nothing the NYCGA refused to acknowledge this forum as being part of OWS. They basically kicked us out because jart wasn't a team player.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

????? first ... I was a member of the nycga .... this site existed before the nycga ....

do you even know,,, the original site for OWS ?

second... your post is all BS ... as usual.,..(unless your talking programming stuff... and even that is iffy ) ...

what specifically has Jart done to create your jartocracy ?

speak details... not BS... you might start getting some respect from here

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

I don't have the energy, will, not time to go around websites digging up for evidence. I don't care if you believe me or not. So, I'll tell you a few things and you can verify them if you want, or not. That's fine with me.

Yes, this site existed before the NYCGA. So what? The general assembly voted that this forum would not be considered the official forum of OWS. That was my only point. The reason it voted that way is because jart did not want to run the forum democratically. She wanted full control. That meant she controlled the moderation, she controlled the forum rules, she controlled the articles that would show up in the news feed. Nothing could be voted in the GA because jart would not allow it.

Another example of jartocracy is how she took over the twitter account a few months ago. There are tons of articles on the web about this. About how jart is not a team player and just wanted to take control from the others.

Right now the site has no signup. Right now none of the users can change a damn thing. No one submits pull requests to this site because jart doesn't accept any.

She runs this forum as a jartocracy. Good or bad. I only mean she makes all the decisions. Period.

I think a forum based on direct democracy would make more sense for occupy. We should teach by example.

It makes no sense to me that we cry out for direct democracy from a forum controlled in a totalitarian manner.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

then .... at least be as good as Jart is... and start your own site!!!

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

wow!! first of your posts I like !!! :)

You didn't like it last time?

https://occupywallst.org/forum/stoping-bots-is-easy/#comment-1041986

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 3 years ago

Some insomniacs even keep a strange inanimate object to focus on to stop outside thoughts from entering their minds and keeping them awake. They play all kinds of silly little games with them to pass the time. You may want to try that.

It could be anything at all. Maybe something like...oh, I don't know...a little rubber pink ducky.

Some insomniacs even name their inanimate objects. Can you imagine that, lol?! Usually an old-fashioned, boring, sleepy name like 'Bartholomew', or...Oh I Know.... Albert! Yeah, that's a good one. ;-)

'nite-'nite

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 3 years ago

Isn't it time to hit the hay?

Why don't you get some sleep and pick this up when you're not so overtired.

Perhaps a lullaby?

Ella Fitzgerald: Lullaby of Birdland - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY8zK4R9oE8

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Renneye, I can't reply to your posts below, but it's midday here. Not an insomniac. I'm travelling in China at the moment.

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

The Platlee Politi-bot has been picking up my postings for wide distribution.

Has it been picking yours up as well?

https://twitter.com/Platlee

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

half of what you say I agree with.... but I ignore it because all your posts are filled with personal hate and vendettas ... I'm sure most here do also

Smart people are able to see beyond the proposer and judge ideas on their own merit. If what you say is true, that good ideas are ignored because of the proposer, then it means we need smarter people on this forum. Only people of mediocre intellect cannot see past the proposer.

I'm sorry I misjudged you early. I thought you were brighter than you are.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

with the exchange of ideas these days

one would be at a loss going after the source

attack on the proposer serve sadism and little else

rather than challenge the disagreement

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

not so much the messenger as the message

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

???? ... if anyone and everyone had control of the site ... then anyone could delete all the files at anytime.... no ?

No. You can have backups. An installation on more than one server. Many options here.

In any case, what interests me is not so much that everyone have physical access to the server, or software, but that everyone has a voting right on how the server or software will be used.

Everyone should vote on the forum rules. Everyone should vote on the features. Everyone should vote on whether or not signup is disabled, etc...

That is how you build a community. A real community. This jartocracy is not the way. It has alienated so many users.

Also, this site asks for donations under the OWS name. This is a problem since the money effectively goes straight into jart's pockets. The NYCGA refused to acknowledge this site as being part of occupy because jart refused to engage in direct democracy and share control. In that sense, I don't think this site should accept donations in the OWS name.

We should be clear and transparent.


Built by the community, run by the community, used by the community!

That will be the new tagline I will propose. Of course, people will vote on it, and they can also propose other tag lines. On a community forum, everyone gets a say.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

half of what you say I agree with.... but I ignore it because all your posts are filled with personal hate and vendettas ... I'm sure most here do also

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

I don't want to "start my own site". That is not the plan. I want a site owned by the community, not by myself. I think OWS should have a real community forum. That means a forum where the community decides how it will be run, the community can help to code it (everyone who wants can code, those who can't can give ideas), and the community helps to run it.

I'm in talks with certain forum members about this already. Ideally, we could change this forum into direct democracy, that is what Renneye wants to do. She is currently in talks with jart about this. However, if this doesn't pan out, I think we should all start talking about creating a direct democracy forum together.

Jart's idea of coding a forum then putting it out there and saying "OK, this is the OWS forum, these are the OWS rules i have decided upon, and I'm the moderator here, so, please, use this site like I want." - is the old way of doing things I believe.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

then set it up .... maybe it's not as easy as you think.... maybe Jart knows that... Jart is an excellent programmer .... maybe Jart would do that in a sec if she could....

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

I think I found her,
I'm hot for founder!

Wah Wah Wah...

Brad B strong,
Brad B swift,
Brad B schlong,
Brad B stiff.

Wah wah wah...

I think I found her,
I'm hot for founder.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

wow!! first of your posts I like !!! :)

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

half of what you say I agree with....

Then you are half right. If you understand the half you don't agree with, then you will be 100% right like I am. Keep learning.

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

???? Jart ... did not "take" control.... she created this site...and always has had control... what?? ... should she give control to you ? ... me ? ... everyone? ... that's fucking crazy !!! the site would be crashed first day

I don't think that's crazy at all. I believe it's possible to run a site using direct democracy. A site owned and operated by the community. "

If you laugh and scoff at this idea, saying it is crazy or impossible, then we should stop talking about direct democracy for the country, or even for big companies.

If we can't run this small forum using direct democracy instead of a jartocracy, then we are completely wasting our time telling others they should adopt this method of organization.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

???? ... if anyone and everyone had control of the site ... then anyone could delete all the files at anytime.... no ?

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

start a post

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

then set it up .... maybe it's not as easy as you think.... maybe Jart knows that... Jart is an excellent programmer .... maybe Jart would do that in a sec if she could....

No, she wouldn't. Jart wants control of everything. She needs it. That's why she took control of this site, that's why she took control of the twitter account, etc... Jart is not a team player.

You shouldn't defend the jartocracy. It's not in OWS ideology.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

???? Jart ... did not "take" control.... she created this site...and always has had control... what?? ... should she give control to you ? ... me ? ... everyone? ... that's fucking crazy !!! the site would be crashed first day

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

And that is why for almost three years now - you have been saying that you should start your own site - but guess what? - you never have and you never will - because you like being the gremlin in the works here. If you left you would not be missed and likely if you launched a site no-one would stay there very long - not after they got a taste of how you operate.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

That is a good idea,to let people who believe the Democrats amount to something other than a tiny, odorless and silent fart in a crossfire hurricane talk about all that in a separate area.I am always confronted with the scrambled nut bag Right Wing Ding,so maybe I am too tolerant.Hoping on Democrats or Republicans has got us in a shithole thus far,IMHO.How other people could have failed to pick up on that is a mystery to me.

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

People don't like to believe they have been lied to, or even worse straight up played like a sucker.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

We sometimes argue around here over who are the worse Traitors.Republicans,with all they have done to crush,kill and destroy the Republic,or Democrats with their phony,two faced non opposition to all of the terrible things that the Republicans have so far done.IMHO,the backstabbing traitor Democrats are The Worst.Then again,policies that kill more Americans and people around the world bear the GOP stamp.The Democrats went with the worst stuff,and just about all of them voted for the worst treason in American History,the Iraq War.At the End of the Day,both are Enemies of the People.Hopefully they will all be held to account-and it would be great if the Punishment fit the Crime.

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

I agree. At the end of the day, on a scale of 1 -10 we are arguing about a 1 vs a 1.2, depending on which way one leans. Not even worth the consideration, but Stockholm syndrome is a very real occurrence.

If people are still openly endorsing both of them, with everything that has gone on, then the social programming is working wonders.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

A moar Cowardly,Corrupt and Craven Crew cannot be imagined.I hope I live long enough to see the day when the Congressional Creeps are held accountable for their active and passive crimes.They are riding for a fall.Hope it comes soon.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

[ edit ] Whatever happened to the stance that you don't pay ransom to terrorists - guess that concept didn't make it to the halls of government. ( Re - I'll do this for you if you do this for me - it is total BULLSHIT - and yes - it is another good reason to be removed from government ).

edit-> Sorry - that may have been a bit unclear. The comment was to be reffered back to your comment at this point = " for their active and passive crimes "

The passive in government rolling over and playing dead or even acquiescing to the active criminals in government.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

All principles have been sold out for a cheap price-except the apparent contempt for people who do productive work that helps the economy.That principle is intact.New principles all rolled together=Anything Goes,Nothing Matters.The Low Life Bottom of the Barrel Scum.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1510) from Waterville, NY 2 minutes ago

Time for the Heavy Lifting.All screaming,legless winos in wheelchairs "report for duty." See ya's on the Front Line,kids.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

I'm thinking yeah - I mean - I am sure none of em consciously chose to be legless or winos. I am thinking that there is a lot of real angst there as to how they graduated to that point in our society. The society that gave them little help ( if any ) and no voice.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

The ones whose wheelchairs are operational are f'n dangerous.The ones whose wheelchairs are broken are not much less so as they can heave those empty MD20 bottles in a ferocious volley.Take ya right da f'k out.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

I'd rather he show up in a t shirt and jeans and just be like "listen, I'm a puppet position what do you guys want from me? I'm powerless, the entire thing is a joke, stop relying on us" lol.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1133) 1 minute ago

Geographically people have to be involved and reap the fruits of their labor. There would be a lot of pain from direct democracy, I feel its best to let the people of say Detroit figure out how to run that area, and let Flint figure out theirs, etc.

Out of sight out of mind is a great reason for setting up this country in such a centralized manner to begin with. Everything is always someone elses problem in another city to deal with.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Area problems/issues ARE area problems/issues - but then again - currently we have BS like the water being shut off in Michigan.

What I am proposing goes by state ( which we have now - albeit absent the involvement of the State's population ) as well as federal/national.

Some rules and regulations are good for all 50 states - such as fraud is fraud - murder is murder - theft is theft - a minimum living wage is a minimum living wage - so on and so forth.

You need a bridge somewhere? Fine deal with it's design and placement locally = in the state and or directly affected area = the peoples choice/voice.

You need a power plant? Fine - but it can't be toxic/dirty - again location and type of power plant ( clean power generation is NOT a choice - it will be clean - what type of clean can be decided upon. ) to be decided by the population of the state and of the directly affected area (s).

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

That was the Presser where Obama stated that with regard to ISIS,"We don't have a strategy yet." He should have appeared shirtless and shoeless,with a chilled Sam Addams in hand and said:"Our strategy is to do nothing because we kinda like the idea of Total Death,Instability,and Chaos.We think we can make money by Moar War Profiteering and terrorizing the simple minds here in the States.Cawabunga!"

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1133) 20 minutes ago

I dont even think it needs to be a direct democracy to be honest. It just has to be decentralized enough that they can see that if they do get involved, they will be heard and their time and effort can make a difference, neighbors will notice, etc.

Real, tangible power.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Ya can't get more decentralized - than - one individual one vote - can ya?

No parties - just issues - just one subject at a time - issues - and every voting aged citizen weighs in on them. That is the direct democracy I am looking for.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Which is exactly why The People can not be divorced from being able to take action in government. Direct democracy "must" be established.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

Geographically people have to be involved and reap the fruits of their labor. There would be a lot of pain from direct democracy, I feel its best to let the people of say Detroit figure out how to run that area, and let Flint figure out theirs, etc.

Out of sight out of mind is a great reason for setting up this country in such a centralized manner to begin with. Everything is always someone elses problem in another city to deal with.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Time for the Heavy Lifting.All screaming,legless winos in wheelchairs "report for duty." See ya's on the Front Line,kids.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

I dont even think it needs to be a direct democracy to be honest. It just has to be decentralized enough that they can see that if they do get involved, they will be heard and their time and effort can make a difference, neighbors will notice, etc.

Real, tangible power.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

Occupy attempted to create a platform for the people to get involved and fix this mess, which is allegedly what the entire country was founded on- people being involved.

The gov sent in the FBI, sent in disrupters, and ultimately collaborated nationally and sent in the police to end the entire thing.

Just think of how fucked up that is. How incredibly corrupt that is. Then factor in this was with Hope-N-Change in the presidency and a Dem Senate (for the believers)...

That is why I say FUCK EM ALL.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

On top of every other thing Obama has done,and things he has not done,the Mouthpiece in Chief wore a f'n tan suit to a Presser.Must be out of his tiny mind.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

Remove the option for power to begin with. Take away the platform for greed and corruption and there is no longer an opportunity.

Tired of corporations and sociopaths running your kids educational system? Stop letting politicians and corporations make the standard rules to which to conform by. I'll take an artist with a short attention span over a riddilined up kid who can fill out his mulitplication tables perfectly but can't tell me an example of when this would be useful.

5 out of my 7 friends in middle/high school were prescribed ridilin. Early age programming to rely on pills.

If someone is so numb/unaware that they don't realize they are getting screwed, are they really? Is ignorance really bliss? Trees and forests dude.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

One might also look at the food industry - raising/growing of our food as well as processing it for the store shelf. Virulent additives in foods.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

ok... I'm for a Direct Democracy experiment ....

Direct Democracy question #1;

Does anyone here think that a single user should be able to have more that one username ... and therefore have more than one vote ?

hmmm,,,, what do ya think...

I'll bet the only one who does ... is the guy that has more than one username ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Keep that up and you will likely be visited by thrashinmasks as the stinkle fairy. {:-])

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

hehe ... who cares ? ... :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

thrashingmasks does it's why he is pretty devoted to it.

Besides it is his way of keeping "good" comments off of the comment board and how he up votes BS onto the good comment board.

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

I actually never vote on anything. If you cared about evidence based thinking and truth, you could just ask jart to check that. But you won't. You just like fantasy. You dirty Twinkle Team dork troll infiltrator den shill thing in a therapeutic bed.

[+] -4 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Does anyone here think that a single user should be able to have more that one username ... and therefore have more than one vote ?

It's a question of usability vs security. The more you make something secure, the less usable it becomes. You have to find what type of minimum security you need and work with that.

Stopping multiple usernames is really hard. It would require some type of unique identification, like a user providing his social security number and that being checked to make sure it matches the user in question.

Most people, like me, made new users to avoid bans, not for voting.

I see two options:

1) Forget about multiple users. Who cares. Just let people signup and use the site. Let them vote. Whatever. It's a hassle to try and stop multiple users. Let the site be free knowing there will be trolls and multiple ID voters. Deal with it. Accept. A site run with imperfect direct democracy is better than a site run by a jartocracy.

2) Make the forum a paying site. Knock everyone off. A person pays 100$ to become a user. That money is donated to a charity of the person's choice or OWS. There are strict rules to follow. No swearing, taunting, attacks on others, etc... or else you get a warming, and a ban after 3 times. To create a new user after a ban, you'll need another 100$. Asking for 100$ shows a person cares about OWS. It shows a person really wants to use the site and is willing to help a charity. The site is then run with direct democracy. Members get to bring up issues for voting, and get to vote.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

phone number seems the most reasonable

a second web of communication can cross check the validity of each poster

and cost no money or code time

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

pay sites ... are for the 1% ....

limiting multiple logins from same user is very do-able... and will not make site difficult in any way... only for the user who tries to abuse it

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

I'm not sure how important restricting multiple users is, but if you know how to do it without impeding usability, then please go ahead. (I have to say I'm skeptical because I rarely seen something that increases security without affecting usability. But, if you say so, I say prove it with some code.)

Do you code in python? Why not make an account in github, pull jart's code, then modify it with your idea.

Show us the code my boy.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

ok... boy...

python... not anymore ... php is better imo... as well as PB/Assembly for windows servers....

it's easy to make it a living hell for any user that trys to login with more than one username from the same machine.... yet... to allow more than one legitimate user per machine/household... we should allow some leeway ...

we could even force a reboot before different user could could login !!!

we can also make it difficult for abusive users to login from other machines... or IPs ...

anyway ... I believe the best answer ... is to simply stop the bots... which can be done numerous ways ... as well as flagging the users who login w/ mutliple names ... ie...

new name AKA original name ....

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

You describe no ways, and provide no code.

You have nothing.

Python, PHP, whatever... I said python because we already have this site in python.

Why don't you start with Vanilla forum in PHP or another forum if you like and add your ideas in the code to make it protected like you want.

Coders code, they don't just talk.

Show, don't tell.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

you don't secure anything with one simple process... you use mutiple processes together ... anyway here's a beginner page for you ...

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1898390

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Iv'e already researched these issues in depth. That is my daily job. I do not believe it is as easy as you claim (for example, cookies can't stop multiple users, you can simply use a proxy server against that.), that is why I am asking you to prove yourself.

Show us some code.

BTW - Who is constantly down voting you? DKAtoday?

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

you can limit # users per proxy... no?

and quote>>>> "...BTW - Who is constantly down voting you? DKAtoday?..."

dumbass ... I don't get downvoted.... I froze my point tally ...

you always trying to cause trouble between members here ... no ?

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

You froze your point tally? What does that even mean?

No, not trying to cause trouble. Not at all. I was just wondering why you kept getting score of 0 just after all your comments.

you can limit # users per proxy... no?

Sure, but if you use an organic proxy service like TOR where new servers are pupping up all the time, it's difficult. A TOR user can constantly change his identity amongst thousands upon thousands of server points.


Like I said, talking about code in the wind is basically useless.

You need to program a solution.Then we can test it and see what weaknesses and strong points it has.

Get coding I say.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

I would ban anyone using TOR .... that's a given... the user has other intents ....

I test, learn & discuss my code with programming sites whose focus is on specific topics....

you'll see a beta somewhat soon... 2-3 more months

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

I think you would like access to Brad's coding so that you could do what you've done here so far - gain backdoor privileges - if changes were made.

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

If seeing Brad's registration code would give me back door access to a site running said code, that would mean is code is highly flawed indeed.

It's a myth to think open source software is less secure. The opposite is usually true. The more eyes see a piece of code, the more eyes can solve problems.

I'm not sure why you think I have back door access to this site. I don't.

I'm interested in seeing Brad's code because I'm a coder and such things interest me. I like open source also because I support occupy and anarchy, and open ideas. Linux, this forum, etc.. are all open source.

If you care about occupy, you should be encouraging Brad to share his signup code, you shouldn't be discouraging him to.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Brad should have a short conversation with jart about that - you gained access in the early days prior to the site being launched and you have been the gremlin in the works ever since.

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

I gained access prior to the site being launched? Hmmm... no. I found out about this site after it was launched. What would gaining access to the site before it is launched even mean? Before it was launched, it wasn't online right?

I never gained any type of back door access here. Jart can confirm that for you. I'm not a hacker by any means. I can barely use a mouse to be honest.

But yeah, why not. Tell Brad and jart to talk. That could be good. If Brad has a good idea for a better signup, I encourage him to program it in PHP and show jart. Maybe she can port it to Python and solve the multiple ID problem that bugs you guys so much once and for all.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

I gained access prior to the site being launched? Hmmm... no. I found out about this site after it was launched. What would gaining access to the site before it is launched even mean? Before it was launched, it wasn't online right?

I never gained any type of back door access here. Jart can confirm that for you. I'm not a hacker by any means. I can barely use a mouse to be honest.

Blow it out your ass - OH - sorry - you already are.

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Also, I disagree pay sites are for the 1%. It depends how you use the money. We could even make a bank account just for this site and the money would be used for that. To run servers, to advertise for more users, to pay moderators, etc...

The idea is not to eliminate money in society. Money is useful. The idea is to distribute more fairly, to use socialism or communism. libertarian socialism is not about having no money, it's about everyone being equal in terms of voting, and sharing money and resources.

Nothing wrong with a pay site if the money is used for the community. It could even be just 10$. That would probably be enough for someone to stop making new users all the time.

Hell, ask for 1$ paid by credit card, but never accept the same credit card more than once. That means a guy who wants multiple users will need to find a new credit card for each new user he wants to make.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

quote>>> "...Hell, ask for 1$ paid by credit card, but never accept the same credit card more than once. That means a guy who wants multiple users will need to find a new credit card for each new user he wants to make...."

at first glance that looks like a good idea... I recall a site that charged your CC 20 cents and then reinbursed the 20 cents after initial process...

but that still blocks anyone who doesn't have a CC

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Yup, added security always adds complexity thereby decreasing usability.

It depends where you priorities are. Personally, I don't think multiple IDs matter at all. I care about the ideas, not the proposers. Use 1000 different names for all I care. If you are posting good ideas, I'm happy.

The people who caused the most damage here were the Twinkle Team, and they didn't have multiple IDs.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

????? ... oh ok.... we are talking about Direct Democracy ... but you don't care if someone has 1000 usernames .... and therefore 1000 votes....

you just want to argue .... get over it... you are smarter than that

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

you are smarter than that

He really isn't. Though he does think very High-Ly of himself - even been known to talk in the 3rd person.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

hehe... 3rd person... 4th... 5th ... 300th ... ;)

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

LOL - and I wasn't even thinking about that. hahahahaaahahahaha Yeah he really does at times conduct discussions amongst him-selves.

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

No, honestly, I don't really care. Why? Because I think it would cause more problems than it would solve.

However, if you can code what you say you can - a solution with better registration security that doesn't affect the ease of use of this forum - then of course I would be happy to have that. So, code on!

Demoex runs direct democracy and they don't care either. They even let people from other countries vote. It doesn't matter much. I applaud the for their openness. Demoex rocks!

I say a flawed direct democracy is better than a jartocracy any day. But, if we can have perfect direct democracy, let's go!!!

The reason having a flawed direct democracy is better than a jartocracy is that it gives us something to work with. We could then figure things out, ways to improve it. We could work on the system until it is very good. That would give us a l lot of practical experience.

Why do you favor a jartocracy?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 3 years ago

I agree ... with platforms, projects, missions... whatever ... that we can work on together.... that's power...

but... it also seems you have a different mission or goal than many of us....

such as your support of... or... resistance to challenge alec ....

not so ?

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

The people who caused the most damage here were the Twinkle Team, and they didn't have multiple IDs.

U R just batshit crazy aren't U.

[-] -2 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

No, the Twinkle Team have by far caused the most damage.

You have banned hundreds of legitimate users like Odin, penguento, builder, and so many more. You guys covered the site in toilet mouth insults to the point that we lost many users who were above your kindergarten level attacks.

You Democrat shills caused many problems here. If the site only has a few users left, thank the Twinkle Team.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Again - banning you 1000 times or 10,000 times is still only banning one individual = You Mr. endless alias creator/user.

The only twinkle/stinkle team ever to invade this site = U ( see above reference ). That is why you are all for people to be allowed to create as many ID's as they want - helps you muddy the waters even further.

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

No, you banned thousands of users which were not me.

Even banning one user like Odin was too much. He was a real occupier. He didn't push for censorship like you did, he pushed for freedoms. He went on the ground. He came to this site. He was the real deal.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33306) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

BullShit - just like everything about you is - BullShit.

BTW - something you never mention - is - that everyone who gets banned can seek mediation from the site to see if the banning was fair - you never availed yourself of this - because you knew you couldn't "shine-on" anyone on your BS positions. They would take a look and see the truth of the matter and nothing in your banned status would change.

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

You are a ruiner of forums.

A dem shill, here with your Twinkle Team in an attempt to destroy this place. That's why you banned legitimate forum users like Odin.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

require name and phone number from each member

[-] -3 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

My name is Mike Moore. I'm 62. Retired auto-mechanic from Detroit, Michigan.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

use real name in post and phone number if confirmation is requires

[+] -4 points by oneeyedjack (-125) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

That's a good idea. What is your phone number? Is MattHolck your real name?

Mike Moore, Detroit, MI 48223-2728

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

phone numbers check faster

Matt Holck

858-483-3822

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

Ben Franklin 238 years ago

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

At the signing of the Declaration of Independence

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

responsible citizens must stand behind their vote

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

???

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