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Forum Post: I challenge what is left of OWS to expand it's range of critique far beyond bankers, politicians, and cops.

Posted 6 years ago on Nov. 25, 2014, 11:19 a.m. EST by StillModestCapitalist (343)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Bankers, politicians, and cops? That's it anymore?

Damn near it.

What a joke OWS has become. A SHELL of it's former self.

Seriously people, there is plenty of blame to go around. This was well understood here three years ago. For those of you who don't recall or weren't present check for yourself. We were an intellectual, knowledgeable, diverse, and passionate force to be reckoned with just three years ago.

Now, as a group, we are a fucking joke.

I'm challenging all of you to check the archives and help expand the range of thought here back to what it was three years ago.

Ready, set, GO!

Update: 20 minutes and counting. NOTHING but an utterly predictable markdown from one of my haters.

How about one legitimate expansion of range for each utterly predictable markdown you give me? Is that too much to ask?



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[-] 5 points by SerfingUSA (451) 6 years ago

OP quote: "I'm challenging all of you to check the archives"

I don't need to check the archives. I was actually on this very forum Sep 17, 2011. WAY before most people here. That first "official" day, this forum had very little activity. Of course later I got banned many times for standing up to the corrupt Twinkle team (as thrashy coined them, btw I'm not trashy). I was "1971" on Sep 30, 2011, and I had a sign in Sep 24, 2011 that I forgot my sign in for. Before that there was no reason to sign in here. Months later I was banned by the troll moderators for fighting with zendogtroll, girlfridaytroll, shooztroll and dka.

One thing you won't find out by checking the archives is how complicit the MSM news was in the beginning trying to ignore Occupy. I would search the news every day to find news about Occupy. September 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. Almost totally silent. The Corporate owned news would have kept silent about Occupy if police officer Bologna had not pepper sprayed those women. After that, the lid blew off and the MSM couldn't keep Occupy hushed up. Only then did this forum become very busy. After the 2nd week, there were so many new posts, that if you posted it would only stay on the page for about two minutes before newer posts would stream it off the page(the forum program was slightly different then) Look at it now!

The first couple of weeks, post "pepper spray incident" , was visited by mostly genuine people. Then the DNC, RNC, etc shills rolled in to the forum.

Occupy looks dead now. It's only hibernating.

Things may look bad for us now. But remember, an idea whose time has come cannot die. For Occupy this is only the beginning!

[-] 3 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 6 years ago

''The resonance of Occupy'' - from a UK perspective, by Lucy Townsend :

''The Best Among Us'', by Chris Hedges & from 2 weeks after the 1st #S17 :

And also consider :

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 6 years ago

You could try to ride the Fergusan wave, or wait for the next popular outrage to hit the news. Unfortunately with that you're following more then leading or building. The real problem is still there and remains the same. There aren't enough people that really care and will remain active.

[-] 1 points by spinoza34 (400) 6 years ago

What a super post, albeit truly revelatory of the neocon apirations that you have for all of us in Occupy, and maybe other altruistic groups too.

Keep up the good work, cause I now feel confident in taking the day off here.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 6 years ago

Another one for my haters to mark down.

Five questions for all Anthropogenic Global Warming deniers, almost all of whom just happen to be utterly predictable die-hard conservative on every political issue:

Aside from your hatred of non-conservatives and all things not Wall Street profit oriented, why would you post and swear by the words of a tiny minority of scientists from fields other than climate who claim not to believe in Global warming or the 3% of climate scientists who claim that humans are not the primary cause of Global Warming and swear against the 97% of climate scientists who claim that humans are the primary cause of Global Warming?

Why are all of your sources denying Anthropogenic Global Warming funded by groups that lean almost exclusively to the right?

Why do you feel that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, FOX, and Breitbart are more reliable on the issue of Global Warming than NASA, the IPCC, or the G20?

Can you cite a single independent survey of CLIMATE scientists in which the majority DO NOT feel that humans are the primary cause of Global Warming?

Why do you suppose so many heat records around the world have been broken just within the last decade?

As you try to answer these questions and explain your illogical position on the issue, I invite everyone else to consider this:

The 97% v the 3% -- just how much global warming are humans causing?

The preponderance of evidence shows that humans are responsible for about 100% of the warming since 1950.

A pair of climate scientists recently had a dispute regarding how much global warming humans are responsible for. Gavin Schmidt from Nasa represented the consensus of 96--97% of climate experts in arguing that humans have been the dominant cause of global warming since 1950, while Judith Curry from Georgia Tech represented the opinions of 2--4% of climate experts that we could be responsible for less than half of that warming.

Curry is to be the featured speaker on this subject at a National Press Club event tomorrow hosted by the Marshall Institute; a right-wing think-tank that has spread misinformation about the dangers of smoking, ozone depletion, acid rain, DDT, and now climate change. She may also discuss the subject at an event next week hosted by the fossil fuel-funded right-wing think tank Texas Public Policy Foundation (TPPF).

The exchange between Schmidt and Curry can be read on RealClimate -- a blog run by climate scientists. The discrepancy in both the quantity and quality of the supporting evidence used by each scientist was one of the most telling aspects of their debate.

For his part, Schmidt referenced the most recent IPCC report. The IPCC summarizes the latest and greatest climate science research, so there is no better single source. 96--97% of climate science experts and peer-reviewed research agree that humans are the main cause of global warming.



[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 6 years ago

Another one for my haters to mark down.

A word for the utterly predictable Obama bashing partisan puppets. In particular, that blithering idiot partisan pig Sean Hannity. The COWARD who will not allow his screeners to take my calls.

Obama haters. Those of you who feel that because Obama can't resolve conflict outside of his own borders, he must be incompetent. He is far from it. The problem is that you die-hard partisans misinterpret everything you see, hear, and read. Your stubborn partisan mentality has literally prevented you from absorbing the truth. Not just any truth but truth well documented. Obama's credibility and ability to consider complex issues in detail are a matter of formal record.

The truth I refer to is this:

"Now let me be clear -- I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.

He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars."

Naive my ass. Incompetent my ass. Inexperienced my ass.

As predicted by Barrack Obama, the Iraq War did in fact prove to be about as dumb as wars get. Not necessarily the concept but certainly the effort under the circumstances at that time. Virtually the entire Republican party from the state level all the way up to the highest office was proven dead wrong on the issue. Roughly 1/2 of the Democratic party was proven dead wrong as well.

Barack Obama was one of the exceptions. The man is a critical thinker. You utterly predictable Obama bashers would realize this if your own die-hard partisan puppet ideology didn't prevent you from absorbing any knowledge which does not re-affirm that ideology. You simply filter it out. This is pure cowardice.

You die-hard partisan puppet Obama bashers also fail to realize that because of a growing world population, greater demands on life-sustaining resources, economic instabilities, record high economic disparities, obsessive competition, the profound and corrupt influence of the private sector on virtually every politician, corrupt world leaders, and your own determination to separate as many people as possible by political party, it has become more difficult than ever for an American president to effect anything remotely resembling widespread or long term stability outside of the American borders.

Damn right mistakes have been made by the Obama Administration. In my opinion, they haven't been anywhere near as profound or costly as the mistakes made by the Bush Administration but then again, Obama hasn't been challenged by the likes of Hussein or Bin Laden. At least not as president. For that reason, it's a difficult comparison to make. What I do know for sure is that significant mistakes were made by the last administration. They have been made by this administration. They will be made by the next administration and the one after that and the one after that. This will be true regardless of which political party is in power at any given time. It is an absolute certainty.

The issue of foreign policy is far too engulfing and complex to define by your small minded die-hard partisan Obama bashing ideology. It will never be understood in any real detail by the masses, the partisan pundits, or virtually anyone outside of high ranking office and without access to classified information.

The painful reality is that in this post 9/11 world with a growing population, a warming climate, limited resources, and all of the complications which arise from competition, no American President could ever hope to have anything but a somewhat positive but very limited effect on global stability. In fact, any President would be lucky to break even. Still, you die-hard partisan puppet Obama bashers live by some outrageous Fantasy Land pipe dream that your own partisan puppet heroes could ever do significantly better.

I'm telling you they can't. It is a matter of formal record.

The Bush Administration failed to anticipate 9/11 as it was being planned by Al-Qaeda in both Afghanistan and America. Because of that failure, we lost over 3000 civilians in one day. The Pentagon was severely damaged. The subsequent effort in Afghanistan did produce results but it was clear by 2006 that some of the progress made was being lost. More losses were taken in 2007 and 2008. The effort had become less effective and more costly in terms of resources and lives. Osama Bin Laden, the mastermind behind 9/11, was able to elude the Bush Administration. He was not held accountable for any of it. Saddam Hussein defied a number of UN resolutions under Bush. He did so with blatant arrogance. He had virtually the entire intelligence community including that of the US fooled under Bush. He did not have the weapons of mass destruction. The initial invasion of Iraq was based in large part, on false US intelligence. That initial invasion was a success but the Bush Administration failed to anticipate the civil war and related complications that would arise from the sudden loss of a very effective, although brutal dictator. We lost over 4000 US troops in Iraq under Bush. Tens of thousands were severely injured. Over 150,000 Iraqi civilians lost their lives under Bush. Russia invaded Georgia under Bush. Iran was already in the process of trying to develop nuclear weapons under Bush. Syria, North Korea, ect. All of these foreign policy issues were brewing long before Obama took the office of President.

I'm telling you die-hard partisan puppet Obama bashers that by disregarding the growing complexities of foreign policy, demanding that any US President or political party somehow overcome them, and trying to place excessive blame for their failure to do what no US president or political party has ever done, you make blithering idiot fools of yourselves.

That means YOU Sean Hannity.

For the record, I am not a Democrat. I would never lower myself to affiliation with any political party. I do oppose Obama on a number of issues and I support the opposition on several. However, I will not stand by and let you utterly predictable die-hard partisan puppet Obama bashing ideologues dumb down my fellow citizens with shallow, misleading, terribly spun, or blatantly false information.

It will never be anywhere near as simple as you claim it to be.

By the way you flat-footed FOX loving fxxx wads. If you have the nerve to claim that Hussein had the WMDs that he was accused of having by the Bush administration, then explain to us which of those WMDs in his arsenal at that time fell under the definition given to justify the Iraq war. Then explain why he didn't use them to defend his empire even as it was being crushed before his eyes. Then rate the accuracy of the pre-war intelligence assessments regarding those WMDs made under the Bush administration on a scale from 1-10.

Tell you what little partisan puppet morons. Because you are notorious for running your idiot conservative mouths and posting your small minded 'low information' entries all over the web without doing your research first, I'll give you a prime opportunity to get a few of your facts straight before you embarrass yourselves any further.

Read this: http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/07/10/3458691/still-no-wmd-iraq/

[-] -3 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 6 years ago

All of you know that my primary focus has been on the COW from day one. I won't deny that for a second. But I have NEVER been afraid to place the blame far and wide and I NEVER will be.

To say that bankers and politicians are to blame for the COW is like saying that Paris Hilton is to blame for the dumbing down of America. It's like saying that McDonald's is to blame for obesity. It's like saying that ISIS is to blame for terrorism. It's like saying that Ford is to blame for Global Warming.

It's not that simple by any stretch of the imagination.

Lets see what you can do everyone.

Far and wide.

Update: 20 minutes and counting. NOTHING but an utterly predictable markdown from one of my haters. Gee what a shock.

How about one legitimate expansion of range for each utterly predictable markdown you give me? Is that too much to ask?

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

well you certainly are a one trick pony - how about this - A new report finds U.S. drone strikes kill 28 unidentified people for every intended target. While the Obama administration has claimed its drone strikes are precise, the group Reprieve found that strikes targeting 41 people in Yemen and Pakistan have killed more than 1,000 other, unnamed people. The 41 targets have been reported killed as many as six times each. In its attempts to kill al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri alone, the CIA killed 76 children and 29 adults. Al-Zawahiri remains alive.

[-] -1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 6 years ago

One trick pony huh?


Check the 'coward' pages before you run with anymore assumptions.

I have MANY more pages to add.

[-] -2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 6 years ago

Collateral damage is tragic fact of war.

Of course, man is far too stubborn, STUPID and selfish to address the deepest underlying cause of terrorism. It will NEVER happen.

That leaves our pathetic species with very few options.

What do you suggest we do about terrorism?

By the way, I would like to read the report you refer to. Both sides have been known to spin the statistics. My belief is that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago
[-] -1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 6 years ago

Excellent post. A very significant piece of the puzzle. But our pathetic species does not have the moral courage to end the paradigm you refer to.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

But our pathetic species does not have the moral courage to end the paradigm you refer to.

Sure we do - we just gotta get the possibilities for change out into the awareness of The People - get past the greedy propaganda of the current powers that be.

BTW people - the scenario I present would do a world of good if put into practice right here at home in the USA as well as be put into practice elsewhere in the world.

[-] 0 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 6 years ago

Ok let me rephrase. A significant number of the masses do have the moral courage but the vast majority with power and influence do not and they never will. They are OBSESSED with EXTREME PERSONAL WEALTH. That is their bottom line.

It's all relative. When some have too much, others will have too little. Certain forms of energy are exceptions but they ultimately contribute to buying power. It's always relative.

I admire your passion and optimism but I'll believe in relative progress when I see it.

Keep up the good word regardless. You may help offset some of the decline.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

We all make a difference when we communicate educate - though it can be hard to see at times for the horrific load of crap that we are struggling against - but every once in a while we see a stream of sunshine break through.

Such as:

Last week, something amazing happened at Walmart. Workers at a Los Angeles Walmart began the first sit-down strike in the company’s history. Sick of poverty wages, irregular hours, and retaliation for speaking up, these courageous workers inspired the world with their sit-in. But Walmart hasn't budged -- so now workers are threatening to organize even bigger strikes across the country, on the biggest shopping day of the year: Black Friday.

The workers are taking an enormous risk by going on strike. They have no union, so they will have to go without pay. Some might be illegally fired. Workers who work Walmart’s definition of “full-time” often make just $15,500 a year and can barely make ends meet as it is, so missing just a few days of work could mean their kids go hungry.

These strikes go way beyond what's happening in the U.S. If this worker movement can continue to grow, it could be our biggest chance to end Walmart’s abusive working conditions, which would change the lives of millions of workers around the world.

Let’s help make this strike as big as possible, by raising thousands of dollars to purchase grocery gift cards for the workers who walk off the job. The cards will make up for lost pay -- which will help the families of these courageous workers make ends meet, and make sure they don't have to decide between striking and putting food on the table. The more gift cards we help buy, the more workers will be able to afford to go on strike, and the bigger and more powerful the strike will be.

Can you chip in $1 to mobilize grassroots support and make sure every Walmart worker who goes on strike can still afford to feed their families this month -- by donating to the Walmart strike fund for gift cards?

Yes, I’ll chip in $1 to stand with striking Walmart workers.

Black Friday happens every year the day after Thanksgiving. Retailers open as early as 4:00 a.m. and offer countless promotional deals to kick off the holiday shopping season with a bang. By striking on Black Friday, the workers stand to make the biggest disruption to sales Walmart has ever seen.

Over the last 50 years, Walmart has waged an all-out war on workers -- driving down wages, crushing attempts to organise, and sourcing from sweatshops all over the world.

Today, Walmart is the world’s largest private sector employer (only the Chinese and American militaries employ more people), with over two million employees around the world, including nearly 90,000 in Canada. The average Walmart Associate makes just $8.81 an hour -- which means that hundreds of thousands of them live below the poverty line. And together, the Walmart heirs have greater net worth than the bottom 100 million Americans combined.

When Walmart workers sat down in protest last week, they inspired millions of people like us in the SumOfUs community. We know the workers already have Walmart scared, and if workers walk off the job on Black Friday, it’ll be one of the biggest disruptions that Walmart’s business model has ever faced. And it could be the beginning of something game-changing.

Can you chip in $1 to stand with Walmart workers by donating to mobilize grassroots support and support the Walmart strike fund for Walmart associates?

Yes, I’ll chip in $1 to help out striking Walmart workers this Thanksgiving.

Thanks for all you do,

Paul, Hanna, and the team at SumOfUs

SumOfUs is a worldwide movement of people like you, working together to hold corporations accountable for their actions and forge a new, sustainable path for our global economy.

As well as:

It’s been quite a year, and together we’ve accomplished an amazing amount. We’re very thankful here at Oil Change International to have you with us, and we want to invite you to join the many who are giving “#ClimateThanks”* this week.

We couldn’t have done everything we did this year without your voice in our actions and efforts. Thank you.

Here’s some of what we’ve accomplished together:

  • Together, we were 400,000 strong at the People’s Climate March in September.

  • We showed – in financial terms – that the power of the movement is overcoming the power of the tar sands industry.

  • We stood up to the Keystone XL pipeline through well-developed arguments and amazing expressions of solidarity and creativity.

  • We exposed the hypocrisy of governments that say they believe in climate change while still providing billions in public money specifically to EXPAND fossil fuel reserves that we know we can’t afford to burn.

Our work isn’t done – our clean energy future took some hits in the recent U.S. elections, and 2014 is set to be the hottest year on record. But we have had an amazing year, and we truly believe that even bigger change is on the horizon.

Your efforts are truly what makes any success possible, and we thank you so much for your belief in us and our work.

Peace, Steve, David, Matt, Elizabeth and all the rest of us at Oil Change International

  • For those of you who haven’t heard of #ClimateThanks, it’s a Twitter hashtag that was started by the Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies last year during Thanksgiving week. It’s an invitation for all of us to give shout outs of #ClimateThanks to those who are doing their part to protect the climate. Write your own #ClimateThanks tweet and pass on the appreciation!

Like us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter

Donate now

Oil Change International campaigns to expose the true costs of fossil fuels and facilitate the coming transition towards clean energy. We are dedicated to identifying and overcoming barriers to that transition.

We are a 501c3 organization and all donations are fully tax deductible.

Check out our blog at PriceOfOil.org and find out how much oil and coal money your Representatives take at DirtyEnergyMoney.com.

and then there is:

I wanted to catch you before the holiday to send a big thank you from my team, and share the latest way you're getting our campaign for fairer 2015 energy policies noticed in Congress...

When we launched our campaign to get Congress to pass common-sense energy policies necessary for wind’s growth in 2015, Power of Wind supporters like you sent over 40,000 messages in just 10 days. That was 81% of our goal for the whole month!

My team is already seeing how your actions are empowering Congressional leaders to stand up against the anti-wind barrage. Case in point is this week’s speech where Senator Chuck Grassley declared:

“I’m glad to defend the wind production tax credit and wind energy.

Wind energy supports tens of thousands of American jobs, it has spurred billions in private investment in the United States, and it displaces more expensive and more polluting sources of energy.”

He went on to expose how the arguments of anti-wind organizations are “not intellectually honest.” Check out a great recap by our partners at the American Wind Energy Association.

The fight is far from over. And with #GivingTuesday coming soon, I hope you’ll stay tuned for some exciting opportunities to make sure Congress seizes this critical chance to bring wind power to more Americans than ever before.

But this Thanksgiving, I am celebrating the amazing progress you have helped us achieve so far. Thank you. I’m confident that with your voice on our side—we’ll get America’s call for clean, affordable wind energy heard loud and clear by our leaders.

Have a happy and healthy holiday, and more from us soon.


Aaron Severn Senior Director, Federal Legislative Affairs

Power of Wind is leading a community movement for the smarter, fairer energy policies we need to unleash the promise of wind energy. Through our smart advocacy campaigns and partnership with wind energy experts at the American Wind Energy Association, we have the power to get our message heard loud and clear by elected leaders: The time is now for a cleaner, more affordable energy future.

Power of Wind | 1501 M Street NW | Washington, DC www.powerofwind.org

I mean seriously - prior to a couple of years ago - who ever heard of such groups or movements - and the above is only a couple examples.

[-] -1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 6 years ago

Where can I send a USPS Money Order to support the striking WallMart employees?

By the way, the USPS does every bit as well as it's juggernaut competitors who were given a HUGE competitive advantage by our sold-out pig leaders.

Support the struggling USPS. Not it's juggernaut competitors.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Sorry I was in a hurry and didn't include the links.

Yes, I’ll chip in $1 to stand with striking Walmart workers.

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

first of all in my opinion we are not at war anymore than the nazis were are war with the french in 1942. simply trying to pacify the population. i would say it somewhat differently - our rulers are too selfish (not stupid) to allow peace. not much different that 40, 50 of 100 years ago. "war is the health of the state" according to muste. we can stop terrorism by not doing it for one thing. we are spreading terror (drones and bombing) to how many countries now? secondly how about sending doctors to help people like cuba does - they are loved around the world! how about helping with clean water and food - that would stop terrorism in a heart beat - here is a bit on the report - you should be able to get what you want with google - "41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes – the facts on the ground New analysis of data conducted by human rights group Reprieve shared with the Guardian, raises questions about accuracy of intelligence guiding ‘precise’ strikes

‘Drone strikes have been sold to the American public on the claim that they’re ‘precise.’ But they are only as precise as the intelligence that feeds them.’ Monday 24 November 2014 11.55 EST The drones came for Ayman Zawahiri on 13 January 2006, hovering over a villagein Pakistan called Damadola. Ten months later, they came again for the man who would become al-Qaida’s leader, this time in Bajaur. Eight years later, Zawahiri is still alive. Seventy-six children and 29 adults, according to reports after the two strikes, are not. However many Americans know who Zawahiri is, far fewer are familiar with Qari Hussain. Hussain was a deputy commander of the Pakistani Taliban, a militant group aligned with al-Qaida that trained the would-be Times Square bomber, Faisal Shahzad, before his unsuccessful 2010 attack. The drones first came for Hussain years before, on 29 January 2008. Then they came on 23 June 2009, 15 January 2010, 2 October 2010 and 7 October 2010.

Finally, on 15 October 2010, Hellfire missiles fired from a Predator or Reaper drone killed Hussain, the Pakistani Taliban later confirmed. For the death of a man whom practically no American can name, the US killed 128 people, 13 of them children, none of whom it meant to harm.

A new analysis of the data available to the public about drone strikes, conducted by the human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November