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Forum Post: How do you divide wealth equally and still maintain ambition?

Posted 4 years ago on April 12, 2013, 10:15 a.m. EST by PerfectCast3 (-36)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A vibrant society requires ambitious people who create, invent, build. How do they get rewarded if the pie they create is split equally?



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[-] 2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 4 years ago

You should research and strive to understand The Venus Project.

Imagine no money, that it's history and something school children write essays about.

In a Venus Project world, all the wealthy elite have no more or less than the little starving kids of today, who we have to watch on TV while trying to enjoy our Sunday breakfast. Flies are shitting on their eyeballs. How can we allow this? I immediately have to change the channel, if I haven't already lost my appetite.

These little fly-eyed kids would have a slightly different existence. They would be able to learn and design anything.

Now how about yourself. No more doing the work a machine can do. No more worrying about keeping up. Anything you want can be acquired for free, and no need to throw it away when you're bored, as it's just something borrowed from the "library". Your nunchucks, your race boat, your tuba... why "own" it? Just borrow and use it for as long as you want.

What about education? I would LOVE to quit my job and learn all sorts of things. Then maybe apply my knowledge to improve, invent or contribute to anything.

What about entertainment and art? Do you think a lot of movie stars do it for the money? Sure, they make shiploads of it, but the real ones will continue to do it for recognition and fame, and the joy of making people think and smile.

What about the economy, and how can one exist? Well, you don't need money to manage and distribute resources. This should be done intelligently, which means money should not be involved.

In a system without money, there would be INCREDIBLE advances in technology. PLEASE someone, try to tell me different.

Last point: when money is no longer our primary motivation, we'll be free to grow and improve ourselves in meaningful ways. All of us.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2696) from Cornelius, OR 4 years ago

Where and when has this great Lazy Apocalypse ever occurred? Where? When?

All my life I've heard righties warn of the horrors of Fairness, the impending doom of Equality. BS!

But all I've ever seen is the carnage of greed, the victims of rapaciousness, the slaughter of a class war, the spoils of Laissez Faire government, and the unregulated redistribution and hoarding of worth and wealth to and by the top 1%. These are the REAL ambitious horrors!

The only scourge of apathy and indifference I've seen is at the polling booth, Voter Turnout, where exploited, disinformed and disenfranchised citizens protest their enslavement. A complete coincidence, surely.

So let's bring back Eisenhower tax rates on wealth, pro-people regulations, return equality to the table and give evil-maniacal, unmitigated greed a long overdue RETIREMENT or, better yet, a DEATH SENTENCE for crimes against humanity!

Ambitiousness we can believe in!

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 4 years ago

I believe people will create, invent and build because it is creating that excites them. The main thing that money does is encourage the ones who cannot do anything to invest in those who can (for profit). BradB outlines a terrific idea about two kinds of wealth -- social wealth and capital wealth being of equal value. He is still working on details. I have never known a creative person who was not willing to work for nothing, so to be a society in which an artistic person's basic needs are easily met, you could not stop them. Starving artists are starving because they must do what they do, supported or not by their culture. The new idea of crowd funding could take the disinterested investor out of the picture: if I understand it correctly, an artist wants to start an art school. A "StarvingArtist" platform requests funding from anyone who believes in the need for creativity. A few dollars from a lot of people who consider it a "social" investment rather than a capital investment. If you do not have to satisfy an investor class, life becomes more fun.

Thanks for listening. :)

[-] 0 points by freewriterguy2 (3) 4 years ago

quit hogging the land. quit making laws in favor of the rich and against the poor. quit predatory lending practices in both banking and student loans. quit triple taxation. quit robbing and plundering the people in overtaxation to the point government makes more money than private citizens, and has taken upon themselves the attitude that their primary function is to stay afloat financially and ignore the financial needs of the people who pay for the government to exist in the first place. Money belongs to the laborer first and government 2nd.

People should only be taxed if there is extra money after their expenses are met for example, if a new homeowner needs to pay 10,000 for a new roof, and cant afford it, that person shouldn't have to pay 1300 in taxes that year, because he needs that money to buy materials to fix his roof foremost! That person could be suffering in his whole family with increased medical bills due to mold exposure in his ceiling because he doesn't have the 10k to fix his new home he bought as a first time homeowner after 47 years. Also government shouldn't automatically increase his taxes a hundred dollars without his say so, if his home is depreciating in value due to water damage, and mold growth, he should have a substantial decrease in his taxes until his home is liveable again! (Government needs to take the approach that they should fit in the little box they came in)

Its not rocket science folks, and unless the people of this nation searches far and wide for someone to execute justice, this nation will perish. ( a bible quote)

[-] 3 points by forourfutures (393) 4 years ago

yes fwg, about laws and lending, but who are you addressing, and why are they listening?

How does your philosophy reach reality? Why are we searching for "someone to execute justice" when we can do it ourselves IF we can create unity?

Why not work for unity? Why not work for a way to unify? Why not start with universal values that are already a part of ignored legal process?

[-] 0 points by windyacres (1197) 4 years ago

Unifying on one issue or universal values will work. Whether it's an Art5 or pressure on Washington, UNITY will work! The politicians will do our bidding instead of the corps, ONLY if it's in their best interest, and we can create that scenario quickly. We can make it that way by unifying, count me in. Solidarity!

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 4 years ago

Yes, UNITY! We need a national discussion on the values which are universal, which we can commonly accept. But . . . without free speech, ah we gotta' problem.

[-] 0 points by windyacres (1197) 4 years ago

The simple answer is not to divide it equally, but insist it be divided fairly. We need ambition, incentive, or meritocracy to continue innovations that benefit the world. Specific people are deserving of being rewarded for benefitting society, even if they were just fortunate. Money, (greed), is currently used for rewarding meritocracy. The end of the cold war showed the differences between West Germany and East Germany, the US and the Soviet Union. "Capitalism" proved better than communism for innovation.

Too much taxation is said to stifle growth. How much taxation is too much? I don't believe we have enough taxation now. I remember when the cap gains rate was dropped down to 15%, I have personally beneffited from it. Now it would be difficult to argue that raising the rate to 19% would stifle growth, it would however have Warren Buffet paying slightly more than his secretary.

There should be no such thing as offshore accounts or carried interest. The tax code should be simplified and fair to all, not just to those powerful enough to add amendments to the code.

The vibant society would prosper if everyone in the country had the weight off of their shoulders that finding food for tomorrow need not be considered. Anyone that gets sick can know they will be helped. They will still be poor if they don't work and therefore won't have things they want, but the stress of survival will be gone forever. Without that stress, ordinary people will have the freedom to do great things, creating a broad vibrant society instead of just dog eat dog till the end.

Phil Mickelson has always been one of my favorite golfers. I'm a lefty also. Recently he complained that taxes were getting too high. He made 67 million and was forced to pay taxes of 40 million, in just one year. How many readers of this post would be happy to clear 27 million in one year?

The concern of the very rich and so called "job creators" should be heard in proportion to their numbers. They should not be able to use money to gain advantages for themselves as they are doing now.

[-] -3 points by PerfectCast3 (-36) 4 years ago

And how many people have spent hours upon hours training and practicing to become the best in the world? Damn few.

[-] 3 points by windyacres (1197) 4 years ago

Some of those that didn't spend hours upon hours and practicing to become the best were spending all those hours surviving. It's a shame don't you think?

[-] -1 points by PerfectCast3 (-36) 4 years ago

There are very few people in survival mode in america. Lets not exaggerate. We wouldnt have 40% obesity if that were true.

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1197) 4 years ago

There are many people in america in a sort of survival mode. They may have it easier than some people in the Sudan or Bangledesh, of course, but they spend their time working, cleaning, repairing, and time with their kids and friends. The obesity is some combination of sedentary lifestyle and what's available on the value menu at the fast food joints and other cheap foods.

Most have never had an opportunity to spend hours and hours practicing to be the best at something, simply because of their lot in life. At what point in their life did they accept that the american dream was for some americans but not them? When did the sparkle in their eyes for their future go away?

They don't have hope. They might hit the lottery but they aren't counting on it. They spend no more time listening to politicians because they know they're either lying or aren't telling the whole truth. "It is what it is" they say and they look for ways to survive.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2696) from Cornelius, OR 4 years ago

Very few SURVIVE survival mode in America! Is that what you meant?

Come look under every bridge, every freeway median and "Dignity Village" in Portland, OR!!!!

Multitudes of ever-diminishing HOMELESS, SURVIVAL MODE, AMERICANS, trying to survive! Many are veterans!

[-] -2 points by Jamblack21 (-5) 4 years ago

Someone who is lazy and just collects wellfare doesn't deserve a slice of anyone's hard earned pie.

[-] -3 points by PerfectCast3 (-36) 4 years ago

Welfare itself is collecting part of someone else's pie.

[-] -1 points by Jamblack21 (-5) 4 years ago

That's why is needs to be regulated more.