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Forum Post: 4/22 Earth Day 2013

Posted 12 months ago on April 22, 2013, 1:04 a.m. EST by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Permaculture, aquaponics, micro-livestock, autonomous building, alternative energy, high speed rail, fair trade, lets talk about how to get this thing turned around.

33 Comments

33 Comments


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[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

MSM completely ignores Earth Day, maybe if we had mattress sales like for Labor Day we'd hear more about it.

Meanwhile, the covert Class War ~ of which the Lewis Powell Memo, the reactionary response to Earth Day, incited via Milton Friedman, Nixon, Shock Doctrine, Raygun-Austrian-omics, and insatiable 1% and corporate greed ~ rages with impunity and ignorance on the Environment VS Big Biz Front!

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 months ago
[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 12 months ago

There's supposed to be an awesome meteor shower tonight as well.

I'll be up for that one.

Back to the OP, an old bathtub or food-grade drum cut in half makes a great aquaponics starter. I was amazed at how many passionfruit I grew from two vines that were fed twice a month off the detritus in the gravel from one four-foot fish tank. It really is a super-fertiliser. And if you have mosquitoes around your place, you can grow your own fishfood in buckets of water.

Mozzy larva are the numero uno fish food.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 12 months ago

closed loop production is where it is at.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 12 months ago

Yes, we need to turn this slash and burn system on its head.

We live in a closed system, and crony capitalism just doesn't care.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 12 months ago

this is why capitalism must be replaced with anarchosyndicalism and our political system needs to shift towards a libertarian socialist system.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 12 months ago

I'm still looking into the libertarian socialist side of things.

I have nothing to gain by rushing into things. Just curious about what is possible at this stage.

But "free-market" capitalism should rightly be renamed Disaster capitalism.

Or Austerity Hypocrisy might be more appropriate.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 12 months ago

Yeah, I'm still thinking there's a better way.

A collectivist capitalism, with a regulated and regional banking system is more to my taste.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 12 months ago

good luck getting capitalists to be collectivist.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 12 months ago

Yeah, it does sound strange.

Not sure if you're gonna need more than luck getting them all to go socialist either. It's a tough call.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 12 months ago

i don't need them. i just need the workers.

[-] 2 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 11 months ago

Spiritual capitalism is a historical reality within the indigenous people of north America, here I posted about it.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-farm-animal-antibiotics-fight-for-organic-food/#comment-961082

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[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 12 months ago

I know that collectivism and capitalism sound like contradictory terms, but so do libertarianism and socialism.

I'm of the opinion that a collectivist culture can sustain a level of capitalism, as long as regulatory bodies, on a rotational basis, oversee the operations of the lending institutions. We can still do the bitcoin thing, or whatever variation there is on that theme, and there's still international trade and tourism to contend with. I certainly don't want a world without borders, but I reject any concept that involves insular or statist rules.

There has to be a compromise in any solution, because people being the variables that they naturally are, we can't all be in agreement all the time.

[-] -2 points by Nader (74) 12 months ago

Something that can be realistically applied to today's economy is providing huge tax incentives/cuts to companies that sell alternative energy products here. Allow them to pay nothing on profits made selling alternative energy products.

It is something that the lock step members of the Ds and Rs should be able to mostly get behind as it helps the environment and cuts taxes - 2 things that obviously appeal to their respective constituents. The resulting competition for those tax free profits would drive the price for things like solar panels and geothermal systems down to the point that average consumers can get in out for their residences.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 12 months ago

that is just a bad idea.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20542) from South Burlington, VT 12 months ago

Do either of you know what you are talking about? Because it doesn't sound it.

There were tax incentives for a wide variety of energy saving devices - I believe Congress refused to renew them - several of my neighbors were able to take advantage before the legislation expired.

The practice is common - with new technology for example, the internet was not taxed on sales made on line for quite some time, and even now I don't believe the taxation on internet sales is uniform nationwide.

The oil industry receives tax incentives for research and exploration - these are incentives they themselves admitted before the Senate that they do not need. They are still getting them.

A tax exemption would not likely lower the cost of solar panels by a huge amount, not if the tax is based on net profit. and would be very difficult to price into the product for to do so the company would have to know what their sales would be at the end of the year, how much tax revenue that produced, and price accordingly at the start of the year.

I haven't looked at the numbers, but I'm sure the tax incentive, at least with smaller companies making solar panels, exceeded the tax revenue that would otherwise have been generated by the sale. I'm not positive of that, but I do think it likely among any of the smaller companies that saw a spike in sales during the tax incentive period.

[-] 0 points by Nader (74) 11 months ago

Why would they need to price it in at the beginning of the year?

Why couldn't profits from sales of alternative energy producing products be tax free when it comes to reporting profits? I don't really follow your reasoning.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20542) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

IF one does not know the cost savings it becomes impossible to price in that savings at point of sale.

EDIT

The point is that tax free does not translate into an incentive to purchase, whereas tax incentives or rebates do.

[-] 0 points by Nader (74) 11 months ago

Well at first you wouldn't price it in and you would just pocket the savings. Eventually the competition for those tax free dollars would push the price down by slowly chipping away at those savings.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20542) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

eventually

Think of beta vs. vhs

[-] 0 points by Nader (74) 11 months ago

Didn't the competition force beta out of the market and lower the price of VHS to the point where every home had one?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20542) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

some claim the better product lost, and all because of advertising

[-] 0 points by Nader (74) 11 months ago

Better in which sense? Beta had a slightly better picture, VHS was able to record longer programs, like movies. The later proved to be more popular.

Any way you look at it, VHS vs Beta was a classic example of intense competition taking an expensive new technology and making it affordable enough for every home to have.

[-] 1 points by Nader (74) 11 months ago

Why?

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 11 months ago

ge doesn't need anymore tax fucking cuts.

[-] 1 points by Nader (74) 11 months ago

How would you get more people to use alternative energy for their homes and cars?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 11 months ago

i would require regulations for autonomous building for all new structures and require regulations for retrofitting.

[-] 1 points by Nader (74) 11 months ago

And where does all that $ come from?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 11 months ago

i don't know we can start with profits.

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[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

Several states in the U.S. have already made it mandatory to have X amount of power generation coming from alternative sources by year dot. It's coming whether we like it or not.

Australia's Western state has been affected by AGW for longer than most, and has put in place measures to counteract the changes over a decade ago. The largest desalination plant in the nation is powered by the Cervantes wind farm several hundred kilometres to the north.

This is the future, whether you come along for the ride or not.