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Forum Post: - Two NYPD Police Officers Assassinated In Brooklyn Tonight -

Posted 6 years ago on Dec. 20, 2014, 10:58 p.m. EST by johannus (386) from Newburgh, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

It was over 30 years ago when my Dad died. I was 15 years old. He died just before Christmas on December 6th, which falls on the same week the grand jury was deliberating the Eric Garner case. It takes a long time to get over the grief that comes from the loss of someone that you love.

I mourn for all the people who were lost too early, especially the ones who were victims of ignorance and hate, and for the people who loved them too. RIP officers Liu and Ramos.




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[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 6 years ago

RIP Wenjian Liu & Rafael Ramos of the NYPD. Murdered victims of a nutter in a USA awash with guns and with no shortage of nutjobs willing and able to use them. Irrespective of our politics, we will think of them and their bereaved families, especially at this time of year.

''Today, in the 2lst century, as we the human family face increasing violence, we are challenged to admit that we are on the wrong path, and that we need to find new ways of thinking and doing things from a global perspective.

''Love for others and respect for their rights and their human dignity, irrespective of who or what they are, no matter what religion – or none – that they choose to follow, will bring about real change and set in motion proper relationships. With such relationships built on equality and trust, we can work together on so many of the threats to our common humanity.

''Violence begets violence as we witness every day on our television screens, so the choice between violence and non-violence, is up to each one of us. However, if we do not teach non-violence in our education systems and in our religious institutions, how can we make that choice?

''When we deepen our love and compassion for all our brothers and sisters, it is not possible to torture or kill anyone, no matter who they are or what they do.''

requiescat in pace ...

[-] 1 points by johannus (386) from Newburgh, NY 6 years ago

I hope that everyone honors Mayor de Blasio's request to hold off on protests until officers Lieu and Ramos are laid to rest.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Two NYPD Police Officers Assassinated In Brooklyn Tonight -

Good Cops ? or Bad Cops ?

Doesn't really matter - it is what you get when police are not held responsible to the law for killing unarmed citizens = dead Cops (right or wrong - good or bad).

Just sayin - another effect of cause - or action met with inaction meets public reaction.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 6 years ago

I don't believe your interpretation will be shared by most people. I think the actual effect will be to strengthen the position that the police are justified in using force when they suspect they might be in danger. The protest leaders have already tried to walk back their rhetoric.

Protests were once successful because they made the other side overreact and become violent. Minds were changed when establishment power was revealed to be brutal. Now, because of one man, it's the protestors that are being viewed as violent and brutal. Perception is stronger then reality and the perception now is that a quick decision to shoot by the police is understandable and justified.

[-] 4 points by johannus (386) from Newburgh, NY 6 years ago

Demanding accountability including a justice system that is not a two-tier one, and expecting people to be professional in their job, like most of us have had to be in our jobs, is not a radical concept.

Eric Garner, officers Wenjian Lieu and Rafael Ramos (RIP) were all killed by people who were filled with "ignorance and hate."

My heart goes out to all their families.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 6 years ago

I agree, but I'm not saying we shouldn't demand accountability and one justice system for all. I'm saying that accepting the deaths of police officers as being "what you get when police are not held responsible" is counter productive to positive change. I'm saying we are dealing with a perception, held by a majority, that the grand jury got it right.

This majority accepts that the police are dealing with violent and dangerous individuals in certain neighborhoods. They don't see excessive force as excessive, they see it as the force necessary. That opinion may be ignorance or racism, I'm not endorsing it or accepting it, just acknowledging it's there. It must change, but I don't see it as being changed by violence against police officers, only strengthened.

[-] 2 points by johannus (386) from Newburgh, NY 6 years ago

I just accidentally erased my comment - When enough people, including the police can understand the difference between a people who want a more accountable and just system.....from the ignorant and hateful men who were most responsible for the deaths of Eric Garner, officers Liu and Ramos...RIP

We will be a step closer than...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

It's not an interpretation - it "is" - just a basic fact of life - or of Science - whichever way you prefer to look at it.

A breakdown of Society has causes.

Causes have effects.

No justice dealt out to those in law enforcement/peacekeeping who kill/murder UN-armed civilians - will result in deep community fear of the system and will lead to more violence - violence including to those in the system which is failing the community/society (those who are not being held as accountable to the law).

And - YES - it is a vicious circle - as the violence of the one feeds the violence of the other.

And that is why those cops should never have been let go from having to face up to the law for their actions.

The system has now said - murder/killing of civilians is something cops do not have to justify - it is something they can just go ahead and do with no fear of any consequences.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 6 years ago

You seem to see the actions of Ishmael Brinsley as cause and effect. That may be true, but my point was how the majority of society seem to view things and how Brinsley's actions effected public opinion. It may be that this is what you get when your society is unjust, I don't disagree there. What we seem to be getting from the public however is the unintended consequence that the police are right. I also don't see society at large saying justice was not served in the cases that caused all this. I believe the majority believe justice, in the form of a grand jury decision, was served. A legal process was followed, evidence heard, and a decision rendered. I'm not saying that is the right interpretation, but it is the one held by the majority in our society.

The death of Michael Brown was judged to be self defense and that of Eric Garner as accidental and resulting from his resisting arrest and his medical condition. That is what grand jury decisions in two jurisdictions essentially come down to for the public. The deaths of the two officers in contrast are seen as an unprovoked attack. We can agree that those perceptions could be wrong or that there is some serious disconnect between public perception and reality, but at present they are the views held by the majority in our society.

The shooting of the two policemen has, in my opinion, only strengthened the majority's perception. It is not being seen as the public reaction to injustice, or as you put it, "action met with inaction meets public reaction". It is being viewed as the action of a lone, unbalanced, criminal individual. It's also created problems for the peaceful protestors who are now being seen as the catalyst for violence and trying to refute the public view that their actions led to Brinsley's reaction. I feel the public sees the shooting of the two policemen not as "it is what you get when police are not held responsible to the law", but as what you get when the police let their guard down. It leads to people supporting the overreaction of the police as acceptable and necessary because they are under constant threat.

[-] 2 points by johannus (386) from Newburgh, NY 6 years ago

Still reluctant to politicize anyone's death, but I agree with a lot of what you say, including the perceptions of many people who may now misinterpret the whole issue, and empathize with the police. It's just, I also think people are not totally oblivious, or unworried about an agency that has very little accountability, and who they may have personal stories about, and some rightly wonder - What the hell is going on?

Many of the people who were insrumental in bringing about systemic change are still alive, from the Civil Right's, and anti-war campaigns. Our struggle, like theres' has made mistakes. And we may also have to choose between expediency, or taking the most moral path, (like King did), but organizers have learned a lot, some of it from older activists. One thing that they have learned is that these kind of movements never go straight up, whether it is because of their error or something happening that was unexpected. We'll overcome this.....we all will.

On another note; The movie, Selma is coming out soon. Popular Resistance has spoken fairly well about it, on their web site. I plan on going...