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Retribution Against the Financial Elite

A Message from Occupied Wall Street (Day Nine)

Posted 2 years ago on Sept. 26, 2011, 4:03 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Tags: communiqué

This is the ninth communiqué from the 99 percent. We are occupying Wall Street. The police barricades that have been surrounding the Stock Exchange help.

Sunday has been decreed, once again, a day of rest. We didn't march. We have made a new world, a new city within the city. We are working on a new sky for where the towers are now.

Throughout the day our sisters and brothers arrested yesterday came back home to Liberty Plaza. They greeted the new faces that have joined us here. They shared their stories of imprisonment, of medical care denied and delayed. We welcomed them and listened.

We had visitors.

Immortal Technique

Reverend Billy

Yesterday was a day of action, and today was one of healing, discussion, and preparation. Working groups met in small circles around the plaza, planning their work and preparing to report back to the General Assembly as a whole. The Assembly debated, as always, the hows and whys of being here. In the morning, we talked about the occupations rising up in cities around the United States, joining us in what we're doing, as people begin rediscovering the power in themselves against the powers looming over them in buildings. We talked of calling more people to do what we're doing. In the evening we talked about staying, or leaving, and what this space means for us. We love it, we're almost addicted to it, but what we are is more than this.

We strolled around the plaza. We wrote songs with new friends. We argued about politics with each other, but not a politics of puppets: a politics for us. We fed the hungry and gave sleeping bags to the cold. We roughhoused. We talked to the world on our livestream. Most of all, we kept on organizing ourselves. Our library grew.

Drums blared for hours into the night when the Assembly wasn't in session, until the time came for quiet. The drummers ended by reciting from the Principles of Solidarity we approved in Friday's General Assembly, in the rain. Before the police lined along the Broadway side of the plaza, they cried together, "We are daring to imagine a new socio-political and economic alternative that offers greater possibility of equality." And more.

"Safety in numbers!" a sign by them says. "Join us."

426 Comments

426 Comments


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[-] 6 points by fighton (15) 2 years ago

We protest peacefully and get cordoned off, pushed, pulled, shoved, maced, beaten and arrested by the police. While we are experiencing all these, some villagers in China fought with police to stop their land from being grabbed by greedy property developers. They have won. They will be allowed to keep their land and the government there will carry out a thorough investigation into the whole matter. China is supposed to be a police state, at least that's what being constantly drummed into our head.

Here we are, in America, supposedly the land of the free, experiencing violence and brutalities from our police for participating in a peaceful protest while the Chinese in a "police state" are able to challenge and fight the police to get justice done. Which is the land of the free and which is the police state?

[-] 9 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

I have a proposal for OWS.

Five Banks account for 96% of the 250 trillions in derivatives http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/09/Morgan%20Stanley%20FX.jpg

Why not take direct action against one of these or the commercial banks they work with?

Here is an idea:

Once I was part of a protest against supermarkets, we didnt stand in front of the buildings with signs or chanting, etc What we did was to have people normally enter the supermarket fill carts with groceries and then go to the register line and have the cashier run all the items, when the cashier told the person the total, the person told the cashier they could not afford it and walked away, leaving the cart full of groceries for the re-stockers to put back on the shelves. We did this all day, and the targeted supermarkets were completely disrupted, they were not able to do any business since regular customers just walked away when they saw the chaos that resulted from the operation.

The same tactic could be extrapolated to the banks, you could go get informed about their services, open accounts, ask questions, etc, etc, etc.

Like?

[-] 2 points by anonrez (237) 2 years ago

That is a brilliant idea! I think we should all spread this around.

[-] 1 points by rocketman (4) from Poughkeepsie, NY 2 years ago

better to just prepare for the battle rather then waste your time and resourses. flame thowers are legal !!!!!!!!

[-] 0 points by rocketman (4) from Poughkeepsie, NY 2 years ago

all jews move to israel ; zionist go home leave U.S.Alone

[-] 1 points by revg33k (429) from Woodstock, IL 2 years ago

this is no place for your hate

[-] 2 points by Adam20751 (58) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I agree. It's unclear how the movement will make significant changes unless it is disruptive in a way that can't be ignored by it's opposition. Occupy a bank, an exploitative retailer, occupy the hallways leading to a CEO's office, occupy their phone lines, their websites, their front lawns, occupy the places where members of the financial industry are trying to park, or walk, or work, but don't think that occupying a square far away from representative government is going to cut it in the long run, even if you make an amazing commune inside it. There are already many great ventures of that nature in the country, but they aren't challenging capitalism, they're avoiding it.

I suspect the numbers of the movement are already enough that a seriously disruptive position could be taken somewhere. I suggest either something quickly and secretly organized at the square such that there is no time for preventative measures, or something planned with numbers so massive preventative measures will be irrelevant. Once upon a time, protesters filled the jails of Albany and Jackson. A mass arrest is effective in some ways and not in others, but it will certainly create solidarity and awareness.

[-] 2 points by mattymatt (88) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Wow I really like this idea - what about having groups of protesters going into bank branches and waiting on line for the tellers/the bankers in the offices and simply stand there talking and talking and asking questions and essentially shut down the bank to normal operations... or something like that... you can't arrest people for talking to bank tellers and asking questions.

[-] 1 points by rocketman (4) from Poughkeepsie, NY 2 years ago

house of rothschild is the BEAST we must defeat.

[-] 1 points by rocketman (4) from Poughkeepsie, NY 2 years ago

mossad not muslims did the dirty deed on 9/11/01 www.911missinglinks.com

[-] 1 points by rocketman (4) from Poughkeepsie, NY 2 years ago

buy guns ammo gold and silver and lots of beans and rice. prepare for battle patriots !!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

Regarding Officer Bologna:

Anthony V Bologna

(518) 989-9051

5 Sawyer Ave, Unit A

Staten Island, NY 10314-2940 Age: 55-59 Associated: Linda S Bologna, Dana M Bologna, Jenna A Bologna

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

"Traditional non-violent protest is dead as a means of reversing bad organizational behavior.

It's easily ignored/overlooked in a media saturated environment and the methods of controlling

and marginalizing it have become widely practiced/tolerated (from "free speech zones" to

non-lethal weapons to crowdsourced identification of protesters). Further, shame doesn't work

anymore as a means of dissuasion. Given these impediments, the revival of protest means

rethinking how it is used as a coercive tool. It means going beyond attrition (boycotts, physical

damage, etc.) and moral suasion (signage, marches, etc.) and into the realm of systemic

disruption. Here's one approach.

In most large traditional organizations, whether they be corporations or bureaucracies,

decision making is dominated by a small number of very powerful people protected by

a phalanx of senior specialists. They are not democracies. Yet, in modern western societies,

this elite group and their specialists are able to dissociate themselves from jobs when it comes

to their private lives. They live unencumbered within our impersonal society. This window of

vulnerability creates a yawning opportunity for innovative forms of disruptive non-violent protest.

One that pierces the organizational and societal veil of anonymity for these individuals by turning

them into systempunkts (vulnerable nodes within the targeted organization's network that would

cause the most damage if disrupted). Essentially, if you can successfully deter/coerce individual

decision makers in this decision making group, you will win (and quickly).

Early work on this type of protest can be seen in the work of 4Chan's Anonymous and China's

human flesh search engine. Both of these open source movements have shown to be

surprisingly powerful at targeting single individuals (and poor at disrupting organizations).

By using thousands of contributers, they are able to gather intelligence information on an

individual (and their family). In short, learn everything about the target down to bank account

numbers. This then enables the movement to target the individual and their family with:

* Stalking and harassment.  In the street, at a restaurant, or at school.
* Identity theft.  From financial to professional.  Publication of private information.
* Denial of communication.  Flood phones, e-mail accounts, voice-mail, etc.

" http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/06/coercive-games.html

"Here's some more global guerrilla thinking in regards to coercing organizational hierarchies.

The more you focus on a single person in the senior decision making group, the more effective

the coercion is. Blanket coercion is weaker since it allows the consequences to be shared by a

group. Think aggressive, amorphous mass vs. single individual. Objective: connect decision

making within corporate hierarchies with personal consequence.

Shame (public pressure) and guilt (traditional morality) are useless as tools for regulating

behavior within the modern context. A market-based morality dominates in the commercial

sector: if you make money doing something, it is good to do. Within non-commercial

organizations the vulnerability is more often the concept of a career. Career advancement and

continuity dominates all thinking. Methods of correction: Taint the career. Destroy the value

derived from financial rewards.

Focus on bounding the hierarchy's decision making processes. It's much more difficult to force

an active decision (new action) than to deter a decision.

The most senior decision maker isn't likely the best target. Target those nearby since the

risk/reward ratio is more favorable to successful coercion.

Limited goals that are binary, specific, and well defined are much more likely to be successful

than amorphous goals. It will not only attract more participants, it is easier to achieve through

coercion.

Success breeds replication. "

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/06/journal-more-thoughts-on-coercing-organizational-hierarchies.html

[-] 0 points by MooMoo (0) 2 years ago

If you start reciprocating - you become just like him and you lose credibility and soul. Leave his family out of it and try and resolve it through the justice system.

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

I respectfully disagree

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

thats just wrong

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

its on whitepages.com, do you mean is the wrong Bologna?

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

No i mean its wrong to open up his whole family to be vulnerable to the action swhich are his, . .also this should be forced through the system first, . .give it a chance in court, . .who knows , the girls might get a heafty sum in a lawsuit, . .but putting this family at a vulnerable level, where the punishment may way outweigh the crime, . .is just wrong

If its one thing I believe in, its that we must find justice as a true measure, and that too many people are hiding behind names such as Al-queda,- America- Hamas- etc, . .and these people are getting away with serious crimes simply because someone retaliates against someone like (Hamas) , many innocent people under that label are killed and oppressed, while the true individual who did the aggression runs free, only to find a new organization, . .. We nust always strive to FIRST, . single out the individual who committed the atrocity, . AND second, we must then execute a true judgement and action based on the mercy as a human culture, . .. but to retaliate recklessly, and against innocents as well, . .has never solved any problems that i have ever seen, Usually it ends in the person who committed the crime to never face judgement and the run and hide, only in the end to go free

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

Look, my friend, when you are in an asymmetric position you are forced to use asymmetric tactics,

and if you wanna be respected you have to respond to tit with tat, tit for tat, tit-tat, tit-tat.

Piercing the corporate veil, connecting actions with consequences

for key individuals is a harm reduction tactic compared to other alternatives,

if we don't do this harm now, we will end up having to make much more harm.

If we don't use persuasion now, we will end up having to use brute force later.

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

an eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

tit for tat - sounds like you wouldn't mind acting exactly like this officer, . ..the one thing i fear, . .is becoming just like my enemy

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

That is not what tit for that means, it means that you should let your opponent (notice I don't say enemy) be sure that his actions will have consequences. In this case, I'm not suggesting to maze Mr. Bologna, that would be an eye for an eye. I'm suggesting that his career should be ruined, that his life should be made a living hell, not as punishment for what he did, but so as to deter future abuses by other police officers. Do you understand now?

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

No i do not understand, . .and the other names that you posted?, AKA , . Linda S Bologna, Dana M Bologna, Jenna A Bologna. . . .why?, . what about them?, . .what did they do?, . . .if someone does something bad to them, will you also disappear and escape responsibility for making it public knowledge?, .. . no! , . I believe in holding the specific individual responsible accountable for all harm, . .using a equitable governmental system of justice, which is tempered by mercy!, .. just sayn

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

That information is on the whitepages.com listing, I copied and pasted the whole listing, it was already public information before I posted it here. Isn't it clear that it was him and not his family who attacked the protesters? How do knowing the names of his family make it more likely that his family will be targetted? We can have this conversation ad eternum if you want, or as long as you can endure it.

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

why would i circle with a jerk

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

right, why would you?

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

and not only am i ending this stupid conversation, I will end it with this, . . if someone does any harm due to that post, i hope the legal system holds you and this website responsible to at least an equal amount as the perpetrator and possibly even more, .. .. I have told you all of the possible repercussions, and apparently you not only now they might exist, but you do nothing to end this madness and bad intent, . . .I joined occupywallstreet when i saw an officer mace an innocent young child, . but now i must oppose it, because i see that the criminal intent of this organization, . is lacking any restraint itself, . .I have saved this page offline on a computer that will never touch the internet, and one that has been stashed away permanently of locallity, .. .the attacks possible from this upon innocent people, way outweighs the action of the officer you have listed, . . I save this info in the hopes that if something becomes of this, . the information can be used for prosecution of the responsible parties, . . .this movement has lost my support, . why would i want a new organization writing new laws, . if they are just as irresponsible and more violent than the one we have now

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

For all I care, you could save this page encrypted in a pendrive and store it in your rectum, but, if anything happens, how would anybody know that the people that did it got the information from here and not from here: http://pastebin.com/nC4f5uca ? That pastebin got 55 Thousand views.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

If they got caught and rolled over in court

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

If they got caught

and if they rolled over in court,

and if they got if from here and not from the link that was posted in major news articles like :

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/09/anonymous-goes-after-pepper-spray-cops-personal-info/42960/

or : http://gawker.com/5843908/anonymous-leaks-personal-details-of-cop-who-pepper+sprayed-wall-street-protesters

or: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/09/anonymous_outs_nypd_officer_wh.html

and if I can be found,

and if a US court can prosecute an Argentinean citizen.

nice thinking!

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

Furthermore, weren't you finished with this conversation?

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

Im sorry about the post i created a minute ago, . .but for the life of me, . .I cannot understand why you let someone post not only the officers name who maced those young girls, . .but also various females of his family, . ..this to me is so wrong, . .i know you have mods, . i know they all let this one go, . . to me, . that is a worse action than the one by the officer who pepper sprayed a couple young girls, . .. i suppose i should have asked the mods to rectify this, rather than going off on extreme actions in my post, . . however you did let it go, .. . to me this makes no sense from a people saying they are going to correct the ills of the current establishment, .. you are quickly losing my vote, . . signed 0.000000323 %

and as for the repercussions, . .no I think i was a bit hasty about this web site, . as i said, . i should have appealed to the mods here first as they may by some strange reason been unaware of the post, . .all things are possible, . ..but as for the repercussions upon the individual posting, . i hold my ground, . . i just cant take people who have someone else do their dirty work and then skate off scott free, . .kinda like an adult who convinces young people to strap bombs on themselves while they hide behind affiliation names, . .these types of people need to be held responsible, . if crimes are committed and they come to justice, . less crimes will happen in the future, . ..please feel free to delete any posts by myself, . and even my membership if you so desire, . thanks for listening, . PEACE!, .. .TheVolunteerWino

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

you are welcome, peace to you too!!

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

You are creating collateral damage to innocents, . .which is unforgivable as a crime! , . . .mankind must keep true ethics, . or he becomes an animal , . or he becomes those he so much opposes!

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

Im not creating anything, it was Anthony Balogna, attacking protesters with his name tag, aware that his address is listed in the whitepages that created whatever emerges out of this. I didn't create Balogna, I didn't create his family I didn't create the protesters I didn't create his attack on protesters, and I didn't create the whitepages listing.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

I agree with you that Mr. Bologna's career needs to be ruined. His behavior was criminal...

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

no, . . but you created a post with his name at the idea someone would create vigilante justice, not caring what kind of justice it was, nor how extreme, . nor to which people listed, . ... sorry i believe in correctly weighed justice tempered with mercy, . .my bad, . . to me , . .you sound like officer balogna, .. no difference in my mind, . .just sayn

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

And you did create that post, . with intent

[-] 1 points by resister (1) from Madison, WI 2 years ago

Well said.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Great idea Javier, this type of passive disruption is powerful... May I ask what the end result was??

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

The result was that after 3 days of these operations the supermarkets voluntarily sat down with government officials and agreed to have a basic set of items at an affordable price to poor people. i.e. they still have the 8 pesos/kilo bread but they also have available a 2.5 pesos/kilo bread, of an acceptable quality. Corporations are very reasonable when you lay the incentives correctly for them.

[-] 1 points by agent139 (13) 2 years ago

i think you're onto something.

[-] 4 points by lukefromDC (44) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Negotiations benefit those who negotiate from a position of power. Example: The military defeat of the NYPD at Stonewall in 1969 put the Gay Liberation Front and the whole Gay community of that time in a position of power from which demands could be enforced. More recent example: After police abuses of IMF protesters in DC led to retaliatory attacks, police learned to treat IMF protesters with respect.

The lesson police learn from beating protesters and not having either themselves or their masters punished is that they can get away with it. At least with the protests continuing undeterred, they do NOT get the message that "police brutality works" which would guarantee more of it.

Probably the best possible punitive strike in this case would be a massive Anonymous-style hacking attack on the Stock Exchange itself, forcing a market shutdown. This is because in the computer world the Enemy has little or no military advantage and is more vulnerable than we are. Therefore, in that arena we can operate from a position of strength.

The other way to achieve the same objective would be to place impenetrable siege lines around police barricades, like what was done at Seattle 1999 or DC on April 16, 2000. If put up while the building's key people were absent, it would work, but the required forces for this sort of operation are measured in the tens of thousands. Perhaps this will grow to that point and allow both methouds to be used?

I have never agreed with the "nonviolence" philosophy, though if that is the only way people are willing to get involved they must be supported anyway. Remember that in Egypt, Mubarak tried to use live ammo to clear Tahrir Square, only to have elements of the military refuse to do so-and to have his loyal elements face return fire from protesters. For that matter, the war in Libya started with an armed suppression of nonviolent protest and an uprising in response, far before NATO got into it. Now there is talk of armed resistance in Syria, where live ammnunition has been used again and again on peaceful protesters.

Probably the NYPD would let Wall Street shut down before going to guns, just like the WTO was shut down in Seattle to avoid the use of live ammunition that could have touched off years of violence. Here is one way "nonviolence" or in Seattle "nonlethality" can be effective: The rules of engagement trap. If the Enemy cannot win without escalation but loses automatically for escalation, you win. At Seattle, live ammunition would have also killed the WTO talks, so it could not be used. At the Bush inaugural protests, even he would not have wanted to parade down streets cleared by tanks, so if enough people had sat down in Penn Ave before the police could set up that arrests would take until after the parade, there would be no parade but a lot of less-lethal police brutality.

My guess is that a sucessful, all the way around, nothing goes in or out siege of Wall Street would force the stock traders to move, probably to an online environment hurredly set up, where their vulnerability to Anonymous would be at a maximum.THAT would be a position where the banksters would beg for negotiations!

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

great post sir, I agree that a siege would be ideal, but the numbers dont allow it right now, to grow the numbers until that point: what do you think about the brick and mortar denial of service idea I described above?

[-] 3 points by lukefromDC (44) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Any method of projecting power against these swine is a good one, given that you inflict disruption or damage and get away with it. Until we as a movement have the military strength to engage the NYPD at Wall Street in a head to head, set-piece battle, we must act as guerrillas until we do. The shop-ins at the banks would be an effective form of this, but here's another: Over several weeks, thousands of people open accounts in a preselected target bank with the minimum deposits. On a preselected Monday morning at opening time, everyone descends on one or more preselected branches to withdraw half their money. Tuesday, repeat and withdraw half the remainder, etc. if at least three branches of the same bank have lines out the door of people coming to "get their money out," press coverage incompletely watched by Mr and Ms. TV Viewer could start a real run on that bank and bring them down.

Now for a further analysis of the current situation on the ground as it has been reported:

I DO believe the nonviolence guidelines have harmed the protest by limiting the ability to retaliate for police violence and limiting the "force multiplier" options available for use. The exception would be if the inclusion of diversity of tactics areas in the protest would have caused in the area of a tenfold reduction in participation. In that case the ability to recruit a mass movement might have to be preserved at the cost of limited tactical flexability.

Still, the concept of nonviolence is alien to most of the non-activist, ordinary people who have been harmed by Wall Street, and is alien to most social movements outside the industrialized nations. I say if the police insist on inciting to riot, just make sure they get a LOT more than they had planned on inciting!

The original call for Occupy Wall St predicted 20, 000 people. That might be enough for a surrounding siege under mostly nonviolence guidelines, it WAS enough to accomplish this is DC at "A16," the April 16, 2000 IMF protest in which the IMF meetings were totally surrounded. Of course, the larger "nonviolent" protests at places like A16(DC) and Seattle contained embedded units dedicated to diversity of tactics. This was REAL diversity of tactics, with everything from Black Bloc rioting in one place to straight NVCD lockdowns holding key ground in others to permit marches.

A key element at A16 and far, far more so at Seattle was the fear of Black Blocs forced the police to contract and harden their defenses. This meant the area that had to be surrounded was smaller than it would otherwise be, and just as importantly that most of the police were penned into the beseiged area, almost opposite what happened last Saturday.

In the A16/2000 IMF protests in DC, because the White House was also behind the siege lines, the SS threatened live ammo if White House cars could not pass, and implied, possibly in bad faith, that IMF delegates would not be permitted to enter the area via the White House. 20 to 30K was more than enough to hold the ground, overwhelm the police, force a deployment of the National Guard, and lead to a shutdown of Federal government agencies on the west side of town the following day.

From what I heard, Occupy Wall St has had at times 5,000 people. The only way a siege would work under those circumstances would be either all 5,000 using lockdowns (never once seen all of a mass turnout do that sort of NVCD stuff), or all 5,000 in hard-core, roaming guerilla bands, many units cris-crossing the area and confusing police comms. The tactics used in recent years by DC's IMF protesters were able to force Georgetown to board up and shut down chain stores for just a 500 person march in Fall 2007. Ten such units would have shut down the meetings.

The reason that IMF protesters in 2007 would have been able to shut down the meetings if they had had 5,000 people instead of 500 is the adoption of a guerilla rather than a conventional warfare approach. instead of going head to head with what I called ",the fortress" protesters targetted the delegates at dinner and in their hotels. With 5,000 it would have been possible to either prevent them from sleeping of from leaving the hotels. If they were prevented from entering the hotels they might have left town as well.

Suppose the important players for Wall Street were identfied as to home address and siege lines sent to their homes to keep them in instead of to Wall Street to keep them out? A similar idea would be to besiege major Wall St players like "Goldman-Sucks" in their offices (in ANY or ALL cities) and try to shut them down.

Even a few such operations would disperse the cops and weaken them everywhere. If the main thrust of the attack is to be at the central fortress, then diversions to disperse the Enemy are called for. If the main thrust is at the outposts, then diversions would target the center to pen the Enemy behind his own walls.

[-] 2 points by DanRose (33) 2 years ago

Letting down tires would count as nonviolent, right? How many vehicles with flat tires would it take to gridlock the whole area? A handful of people, sneaking through stopped traffic, could cause genuine disruption to Wall St.

[-] 3 points by lukefromDC (44) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Does not harm living organisms, don't see any violence there... BTW, the use of junker cars for staged "traffic accidents"(involving ONLY pairs of batmobiles!) or "breakdowns" would be even more disruptive, as the "batmobiles" could be positioned for maximim impact. Years ago, I saw a "reclaim the Streets" in DC use an old SUV (4 flat tires) and an old small car (turned over) as sudden barricades to take a street which was then filled with people. For this situation, I would suggest the car barricades ONLY, with drivers having plausable reasons to go to the sidewalk before disapearing, such as pretending to call a two truck. Ordinary traffic will then take care of "filling the street."

Do this right, and all vehicle access to Wall Street (or any other target) could be cut off. Next issue: Stopping up subway exits without blocking service to nontarget areas. Saw this done in 1998 at the Pentagon-after a whole summer of threats to block the roads made the Pentagon bosses tell everyone to use the trains that day!

[-] 0 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

if you got caught letting down tires, . CNN and the rest would have a heyday telling everyone how irresponsible the people of the movement were getting and how they had no respect for peoples property, . .you would discredit all those who have held their peace in the protests even though they witnessed their own being arrested and pepper sprayed

[-] 2 points by DanRose (33) 2 years ago

What's more important, people or property? And how would this action not be peaceful?

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

im not saying anything about peaceful, . im saying the media will have a heyday with stuff like this and tell the world taht "all" the protesters are just terrorists and lawbreakers,they own most of ther brainwashed audience(not all) and you will gain no more new outside support for the movement, which is what it needs the most right now. . . .just sayn, . .you will lose support

[-] 2 points by DanRose (33) 2 years ago

If we ever start being effective, they'll say that anyway.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

yes, but who is right and who is wrong , is sometimes more important than what they say

[-] 1 points by Rasterius (13) from West Leederville, WA 2 years ago

brilliant idea this should be spread

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

"We asked the newsroom to explain their editorial decision. Executive editor for news Dick Meyer came back:

"The recent protests on Wall Street did not involve large numbers of people, prominent people, a great disruption

or an especially clear objective.""

https://www.npr.org/blogs/ombudsman/2011/09/26/140815394/newsworthy-determining-the-importance-of-protests-on-wall-street

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

"NEW YORK — Protesters who have been camping out in lower Manhattan have gotten an unexpected morale boost from filmmaker Michael Moore.

The “Occupy Wall Street” protest is in its second week, as demonstrators speak out against corporate greed and social inequality.

Moore visited Zuccotti Park on Monday evening to cheer the protesters on after they marched through lower Manhattan.

Police made 87 arrests on Saturday during a march north to Union Square. Protesters criticized the police response as heavy-handed and said officers used pepper spray on people who did nothing wrong. Police dispute those claims.

The march Monday remained calm and police said there were no arrests.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/occupy-wall-street-protesters-get-boost-from-filmmaker-michael-moore/2011/09/26/gIQAaExG0K_story.html

[-] 1 points by takeTsquare (77) 2 years ago
[-] 4 points by joejet123 (6) 2 years ago

I am a 57 year something and have been to the protest three days last week and I will be there again today with an old friend. My observation is that the protest is working and there is a lot of sympathy from all demographics. Believe it or not, there is sympathy form the cops also. They are not oblivious to what is happening in the economy. On September 16, 2011, Trenton, NJ laid off 108 police officers—1/3 of their police force. The NYPD knows this and are worried about their jobs.

The blue uniformed cops seem pretty laid back until the WHITE-SHIRT bosses come in and tell them what to do. Don’t get arrested. Arrests are one of the main things that the main-stream media reports and it only helps the mayor. Arrests are used as propaganda to show that the City is protecting the public. Since there are no leaders in the occupation, unless you are a person like Martin Luther King or Gandhi, getting arrested serves no purpose.

I watched the arrest of two people last Thursday night, 9/22. The police showed up in strong numbers, and this caused great agitation between the blue uniformed cops and the protestors as they stood nose-to-nose with each other, while the WHITE-SHIRT bosses stood behind. Inevitably the situation got tense, and two protestors broke ranks and were hauled away. If you’re caught up in this type of situation, try to remain calm.

Being peaceful seems to be the best strategy. Your movement will attract greater numbers as long as things remain fairly stable.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

I agree, . .peaceful protests may not be the most exciting of all options, . .but when outsiders are eventually watching, . .it does garner much support from them

[-] 1 points by ZinnReader (92) from Encinitas, CA 2 years ago

During the civil rights era, getting arrested was a right of passage. Nonviolent resistance is the best strategy, but sometimes that entails getting arrested. Importantly, their jails aren't big enough to hold 99% of America.

[-] 1 points by Adam20751 (58) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Well said. A sense of how many people we have that are "available" for a few days and up for the adventure would be useful. Hidden cameras or audio recording would be amazingly useful.

[-] 4 points by exampler (10) 2 years ago

It is easier to fight a real dictatorship than a false democracy.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Yes indeed, all of the below...

[-] 1 points by RichZubaty (37) from Wailuku, HI 2 years ago

Amen bro/sis

[-] 1 points by mattymatt (88) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Wow, thats very true. I might make that my sign for this weekends protest. At least ina dictatorship people know they are being oppressed. Here it's easy to buy into the illusion.

[-] 1 points by deacy (8) 2 years ago

Well said. Very true.

[-] 3 points by GandhiKingMindset (124) 2 years ago

Many have said these things but let me try to collect them here in one spot. We are gaining momentum and the world is waking up to this incredible protest. We have remained non-violent. Many in America are sympathetic and are grateful that we are taking a stand. But occupying the park and marching by themselves are not enough. The world and our supporters will get energized if we get tactical and take action: FIRST - The videos of police using brutal physical force and pepper spray against peaceful protestors do an incredible job displaying the brutality of the power structure. King, Gandhi, Abbey Hoffman and countless others who are / were professionals at non-violent action and peaceful provocation would absolutely be calling a press conference denouncing these actions and showing these videos at the press conference. This puts the police on the defensive. SECOND - King and Gandhi were successful in part because they were experts at tactical non-violence. We can follow in their footsteps by blocking the entrances to Wall St. offices this week. As we know, police have set up what amounts to a Green Zone around Wall St. But the suits have to enter somewhere. They have to leave the public street and enter that Green Zone somewhere. That point where public meets private should be the very center of our focus for non-violent resistance and occupation. Even as the location of that intersection shifts, we can always identify it. By definition there must always be an entrance and that entrance should be our focus. THIRD - OUR ONE DEMAND - We should make one single demand: "Shut Down Wall St." Why are we shutting down Wall St.? "Because Wall St. is hurting Americans, hurting citizens of the world and ruining our environment." When they fail to shut down Wall St., we do it for them in a non-violent way using peaceful non-violent resistance. And when the press asks, why.... We answer "We shut down Wall St. for a day so America and the world could breathe for a day, be free of the plutocracy for a day, be free of the exploitation for a day, be free of the greed for a day. Many will ask "What good is a day?" and we'll answer: "You call it a day. We call it a pretty good start. If someone has their foot on your neck for years and years and you non-violently force that foot to be removed for a day, that allows you breathing room for all sorts of options. FOURTH - HOW - To shut it down, we need human chains of 30, 50, 90, 150, 300 people linked together (think zip ties) blocking the various entrances. The police will find it almost impossible to deal with these human blockades. This will create the largest pedestrian traffic jam New York has ever seen and the people who have been trading on the world's misery for so long simply won't be able to get in to do it that day. It will help if we don't go in as a march but instead go dark as regular old NYC pedestrians from all directions and then show up there at the same time. I am aware that now protestors have found access to a large cache of civilian clothes that will allow many of the new people arriving to blend in (suits, ties, the works). This new donation will make it much easier to blend in up until the point of protest. And it will also gum up the works even more, making it easier to shut down Wall St. because now the police can't tell who's who and they need to stop EVERYONE, even the suits. Their Green Zone will then break down. FIFTH - THE RESULT - The result of this direct non-violent action, this just protest, is that the front page of newspapers around the world will show images peaceful American youth shutting down the financial district that has wrought so much destruction around the world for so long. They'll be inspired by the ingenuity, the success and the courage and the movement will grow EXPONENTIALLY. Gandhi and King have given us the playbook. It's peaceful non-resistance. And it works. We have the stage but that's not enough. It's time for direct action. It's time for civil disobedience to bring the truth into the light. They are not equipped to deal with it. They don't know what to do with non-violence because all the cameras are rolling and whatever they do makes them look bad. We will confound them if we take direct action. The spirit of Abbey Hoffman, Martin L King and Gandhi is with us. It's time to use their playbook. It's time for ACTION!!! Civil disobedience. Our disobedience will be consistently blocking the entrances to Wall Street’s offices. They will find us coming together to block these entrances wherever they move them. Because there is always an intersection where public meets private. No matter where they move it, we’ll be there. We will be there.

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

I agree sir, the question then is how to reach the critical mass necessary to make that happen.

[-] 1 points by GandhiKingMindset (124) 2 years ago

It's actually the other way around. We have plenty of people for now to begin and with a few acts of civil disobedience blocking entrances non-violently (as opposed to just marching), the support will swell and grow exponentially both on the ground in New York and around the nation and the world. We must take this to the next level and engage in direct non-violent action.

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

we are on the same page.

[-] 3 points by Dec (3) from Christchurch Central, Canterbury 2 years ago

Spreading the message all the way in New Zealand. Stay strong and peaceful, this isn't just a revolution for America but also for the world. You can do it peace an love brothers and sisters!

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

yes, peace and love, peace and love, we should make love to the banksters.

[-] 1 points by karenpoore (902) 2 years ago

Peace to you from Austin, TX USA Karen

[-] 2 points by ScottStormhammer (5) from Pasco, WA 2 years ago

Americans are being taught that we have to take advantage of all opportunities to succeed, especially at the expense of our fellow citizens.

Our extreme version of capitalism has taught us this lesson, through having corporations and CEO’s and other very advantaged people becoming richer and richer while a much larger percent of people become knocked down into poverty.

There are not even enough MINIMUM WAGE jobs for everyone.

There is not enough wealth to go around, simply because the rich are allowed to maintain an inexcusable percent of the resources in the United States of America.

This lesson will eventually cause extreme legal actions, and possibly even crime if legal actions prove ineffective, which will be aimed at promoting a glimmer of hope to the vast majority of United States citizens by balancing money and opportunities fairly amongst all Americans.

I am the opposite of a proponent for disadvantaged people going crazy to the extent that crime and violence will become directed toward the rich who do not frankly give a damn about their fellow citizens, but I do think that this is a very likely outcome if money and opportunity do not become much more balanced than they are.

We need a fast changes. I would place huge bets (if I could afford them) that our country will massively weaken if the changes are not massive and widespread toward making sure we all have equal and fair opportunities.

[-] 2 points by catbestland (8) 2 years ago

Let's not forget to occupy public lands. There are millions of acres in the American west that belong to the public but has been monopolized by large private corporate ranchers who have controled our lands for over 100 years. These are not the mom and pop beef raisers who are not allowed the use of these lands. Only large subsidized corporate ranchers who are wealthy enough to own grazing leases run their privately owned cattle on our public lands for practically free. They are responsible for the absolute destruction of our wildlife heritage to protect their beef industry profits. So don't forget to occupy our public lands that most people are not even aware that they co-own with the rest of the public.

[-] 2 points by GandhiKingMindset (124) 2 years ago

The number of protesters in New York will grow huge. The movement will grow exponentially if we take the direct action described below. And then we'll be asked: Why did you shut down Wall Street by blocking the entrances. And our response will be "We shut down Wall St. for a day so America and the world could breathe for a day, could be free of the plutocracy for a day, be free of the exploitation for a day, be free of the greed for a day."

Some people will ask: "What good is a day?" And we'll answer: "You call it a day. We call it a pretty good start. If someone has their foot on your neck for years and years, and you non-violently force that foot to be removed for a day, that allows you breathing room for all sorts of options. We need to block the entrances to Wall St. with human chains. We band together in groups of 30, 50, 90, 150, 300 linked with zip ties. The police can't begin to deal with that. It will completely gum up the works. Their green zone will break down and those that trade on human misery won't be able to practice their craft for a day.

When human beings see what they're capable of by our example, they'll drop their fear and join us in our non-violent peaceful resistance. The power structure is absolutely terrified that we will do what I'm describing here because they don't know how to deal with non-violence. Because no matter how they handle it, they look bad and all the world is watching. This is EXACTLY the time for direct action.

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

Because America is the only system of corporate greed in the world, and there aren't mega corporations in every major nation worldwide. You can't be that naive to think everywhere from China to England doesn't have corporations that operate in the same, or even worse ways?

If you were to successfully damage the United States corporate system, who exactly do you think would get hurt the hardest and most? It certainly wouldn't be the CEOs comfortable with their billions. It would be the masses, and unemployment would spread like wildfire - the masses are a little brighter than you guys and realize that.

You guys wouldn't even be the first to feel the effects, because you're all relatively wealthy and don't know what it's like to be really impoverished.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Who are you accusing of being wealthy? You're making a HUGE assumption by saying the protesters are wealthy. That tells me you are completely biased and ignorant about what you are saying. Do you know every protester personally? Do you know their stories? I didn't think so.

[-] 1 points by Adam20751 (58) from New York, NY 2 years ago

In current capitalistic terms, I agree. If our system was made to default or collapse as is, the "loans" of the rich would be erased along with the rental agreements, home titles, and "credit" of the poor.

However, a more radical shift is possible. Consider these terms: Given a large financial collapse, our physical resources would largely remain. Whatever happens to our country's ability to import ridiculous foreign consumer products, there would remain an agricultural base, something of a heavy industry, and many people skilled in medical services. While I agree these systems would suffer some disruption in the sort run, it's hard to imagine the country ending up in significantly worse shape even over the course of a year or two.

Most of our arable land is used to feed cattle which, as mammals, return only a small percentage of the energy we feed them. Most of our engineering resources are used to make buildings and automobiles that are only used for capitalistic nonsense.

In the simplest sense, it seems to me that the masses suffer not from a lack of resources in their country but a lack of access to it; a lack of nominal control that would allow them to use it productively. Wouldn't a financial shakeup be exactly helpful in these terms?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Is your solution to sit around and do nothing? Unfair practices haven't been changed by people sitting around and doing nothing.

You should watch movies such as "Iron Jawed Angels" and "Made In Dagenham" to name just two.

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

Nope, figure out how to fix and work the system from the inside. Educate people. Volunteer. Help out. Teach. I've been working since I was 9 and getting paid under the table, and I still have money and time to give back to my community at 22. I'd bet you what little I've got that half of these kids don't even do that, and are just here to be seen.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

By "working the system", are you saying you use and abuse it?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

So, because most people didn't start working at 9 years old, that makes them less than you and means that if they protest, it means they're doing it JUST to be seen? Wow.... your ignorance and arrogance astounds me.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

You're making a huge assumption and are no better than the cronies who have bankrupted this nation by accusing the protesters of that. That is really ignorant of you.

[-] 2 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

Man, I have got to say, these protests appear to be a mess of wealthy subrurban white kids toting Apple phones (AAPL), wearing Urban Outfitters clothes (URBN), more concerned with looking trendy and cute than actually getting success. It's embarrassing how naive and privileged my generation of young 20-somethings is.

1, What on Earth are you even protesting? Nobody seems to know, all I get is vague concepts like "the top one percent" (Apple, UO, Walmart, Target, all the places the young ones love to shop if pictures are any indication). "Wall St!", "Corporate greed!" "Democracy not Corporocracy!" These are just buzz phrases that mean nothing. You will get no change whining about a vague concept.

2 Stop supporting the system. I look at these pictures and I recognize name brands and clothing from the biggest corporations in America. That's fine, I like their things too, but don't you see how that's ridiculously hypocritical?

3 You have the power yourselves to volunteer, stop supporting systems you claim not to believe in, educating yourself, etc. You will get more longlasting change by everyone doing their part than by a bunch of college-kids feeling good about themselves for carrying a witty sign and looking cute. Volunteer, start an ethical company, teach your children to do good. These things will make a real change

4 - Think big picture, understand how the world and humanity works and stop begging for systems that just would never realistically function.

Look at the photos and videos you guys are posting, these protests are filled with overwhelmingly privileged white children who have wanted for nothing in their lives and have the luxury of protesting because they don't have to worry about their livelihood. (In b4 special snowflake "I'm 37" "I'm black and--", I mean what is overwhelmingly shown) The police brutality you face? People of colour live with that threat every day. But you'll never really experience what that's like.

Half of you will be /joining/ the system in ten years, and a good 99% of you are currently happily supporting it. Throw down your Apple computers (he bought an organ overseas, that's cool!), stop supporting these huge clothing chains, facebooks, all that. Don't want to? Then stop 'protesting', because you really actually don't care.

You just look like a bunch of naive kids.

[-] 1 points by LordStark (15) 2 years ago

And I assume you know all of this from experience?? Lol didn't think so. All of you people are the same, you attempt to demean and scare us into YOUR way of thinking. WON'T HAPPEN LADY!

Truth is you have NO CLUE what will happen in AMERICA if the government system is TRULY CHANGED because it HAS NOT HAPPENED ever! Big business has been digging its claws into government since before YOU OR I were born!

ONE DAY I HOPE ALL YOU NEGATIVE NANCY'S COME UP WITH SOMETHING A BIT MORE COMPLEX THAN THE MINDLESS RHETORIC YOU ALMOST ENDLESSLY SPEW......

We are the 99% and we WILL NOT STOP!!!

[-] 1 points by streamfortyseven (15) 2 years ago

They aren't naive, they finally wised up to what is going on, and who's doing it, and where it's being done. It's the white middle and working classes that are being screwed over this time, their 401k accounts holding their life savings which have been churned and stolen by the banks which are "too big to fail" - and which have received trillions of dollars of the future tax money of the middle and working classes which have had absolutely no say in the armed robbery which was perpetrated upon them by the likes of Goldman $achs and their buddies in the corporatist government.

The protest at Zuccotti Park is of very great importance, those people are absolutely doing the right thing, and that is the most appropriate location to be doing it.

[-] 1 points by RobertNDavis (133) 2 years ago

And you look like a naive, defeatist misanthrope with no point.

[-] 1 points by b33m3R (23) from Alpharetta, GA 2 years ago

They aren't protesting capitalism per se, they are protesting the big banks and Wall St. iron grip over it. It's hardly a free market when a few people are controlling and manipulating it. This is not something new to our society, banks have been dangerous entities since their inception.

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later, is the people versus the banks." ~ Lord Action (1934-1902) English Historian

So what they have an iPhone or cloths designed to last in outdoor conditions. To not use technology to your advantage would be naive. To not dress appropriately would be stupid.

Your problem, sir, is you are so focused on such minor and inconsequential details (talking points) to try and prove your mundane point you fail to see a bigger picture.

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." ~ Frederic Bastiat, 1801-1850, political economist

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

I'm not talking about wearing clothes designed 'to last', I'm talking about kiddies like: http://www.flickr.com/photos/erin_m/6179568140/. Which I have seen a LOT of in the coverage of the protests. Wearing a cool jacket is fine, but acting like you're not actively buying into the typical fashion nonsense. There's a difference between buying a jacket to keep you warm, and buying a jacket from Walmart because it matches your shoes. I have no problem with that line of thinking, but stop acting like you're fighting the man!!!1!11!' when you do so.

It might not be a perfect system, but nobody is saying any alternatives or realistic solutions. They're just holding signs instead of actually actively trying to help. I might not like the system, so I'm working it from the inside, learning business, and applying moral business codes in how I operate. This is just stamping your foot and expecting change.

You guys ARE the ones failing to see the bigger picture, because it's like you're willfully not understanding how to make meaningful change.

[-] 1 points by b33m3R (23) from Alpharetta, GA 2 years ago

I hear you, I understand your point, I even agree with it. But you can't change a system this inherently corrupt from the inside that easy, you'll just get eaten up and spit out. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, you should and I hope you stay strong and true. These people (and I say people rather than kids because I've seen plenty of adults there) are acting with the spirit that this country was founded on.

I was reading forum comments in the Wall St. Journal about this, I'm sure the supporters of King George said the same things when a bunch of young adults decided to throw some tea into a Boston river. Our founding fathers destroyed company property to make their point. These people are taking a peaceful approach to this situation. A very peaceful approach. Maybe that's why the media is not covering it; not enough violence.

Are you saying that the protests in the 60's did not create a meaningful change? I know quite a few historians who would disagree with you. The protests on Wall St, and across America stand a good chance of peacefully doing the same thing. As does your approach.

Lot's of talk about no one mentioning alternative or realistic solutions. The fact is making Wall St. and Bankers responsible for their actions is the solution. No one is arguing that a free market is not the best thing for civilization right now. We are arguing that what we have is not a free market. When a few control and manipulate the whole it can hardly be called free, can it now? The cretins an Wall St. stole billions and got away with it, and they didn't even have the decency to offer up a patsy. That's pure silver-spooned arrogance.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

I want free higher education for my children, .. . i want to be able to pat off a house one day, . . its not all clear, . .as Buffalo Springfield said during the last peace revolution, . . . There is something happening here, . . . "WHAT IT IS AINT EXACTLY CLEAR" . . . young people speaking their minds, . gettin so much resistance, from behind

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

We had free higher education in my country for a while, and in three years it almost bankrupted us and they took it away. America has countless more than we do, and more universities with better quality education. Which countries are running successfully with free tuition? They might have cheap higher education, the US is more expensive than most, but free? Free and function and open to the lower classes? Show me where. You guys are screaming for things but you don't seem to know where it's coming from or how it's possible.

[-] 1 points by b33m3R (23) from Alpharetta, GA 2 years ago

Not free education, but it shouldn't be for profit either. Teachers should get paid, NOT investors and stockholders. Affordable education. It's a right not a privilege. Just like health care is a right. That's the humane thing to do. We can have a free economy, we can have iPhones and fancy clothes but some things must not be touched by corporate hands, by corporate greed. We must have balance or loose our humanity.

"Are you not ashamed of heaping up the greatest amount of money and honour and reputation, and caring so little about wisdom and truth and the greatest improvement of the soul?" ~ Socrates

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." ~ Oscar Wilde

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

I agree with these thoughts, I think you're a very reasonable person b33m3R. I just wish we as people would put our brains together and try to think of solutions instead of nifty peace songs on a guitar. People are literally preaching to the choir, when this is a time for problem-solving.

There's this "IF YOU'RE NOT WITH US THEN YOU'RE WITH THEM" mindset that isn't particularly helpful either.

[-] 1 points by b33m3R (23) from Alpharetta, GA 2 years ago

Keep in mind kaylababe, the "if you're not with us you're against us" mindset is just as prevalent with conservatives (more so in fact) in America.

This whole thing is not an anti-corporation rant or anti free market. Free market is a good thing, a free market controlled by banks and Wall st. is a bad thing. Wall St. traders are nothing but glorified gamblers, we'd be better off with having a mafia don as economic adviser to the POTUS. Jobs aren't being cut back because companies aren't doing well, they are being cut back so CEO's and Wall St. stockholders can get a payout.

We have a consumer driven ostensibly free market. What happens to such a market when the consumers no longer have money to consume with? It's really not rocket science.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

the lower classes can no longer afford higher education, . .the govt keeps cutting FASFA so it covers less and less, college while intuition keeps rising every year, . .Higher education is slowly becoming a perk of the wealthy in this country, . . .

[-] 1 points by attorneysomewhere (22) 2 years ago

Perhaps the point shouldn't be free and open to all, but there definitely needs to be a point of not giving special exception to those who are in power. For example, did you know that all federal members of congress and their family never have to repay even a cent of their federal loans, despite most-to-all of them being in a position that repayment of those loans wouldn't be unreasonable?

This replays itself over and over again, such as with not having to pay into Medicare or Social Security, or Federal judges being able to receive their current pay at time of retirement for the remainder of their lifetime after their retirement. The latter is even more disturbing to me, because a fair number won't stay retired, and instead get another federal job, in effect "double dipping" into the governmental bankroll.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

I believe that era accomplished something, . . .they got us out of an endless war for one

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

Yeah, and that era grew up and became 'The Man' . Just like this one will.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

yes but with the digital age, . 'the man" is becoming more transparent and easier to identify

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

And they're more powerful than ever.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

but they are backing into a cage, their own prison

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

I see it like this, . we live in cycles, . . like a liquid mountain with all humanity inside, . .the greedy climb to the top of the mountain, . then it collapses like a wave into a swell, . .this happens when rome falls, . or whatever, . .. then a new mountain rises, . .everything inside is slightly mixed but more quickly separates each time, . . man expects cycles to go on forever, . .but thats the trap, . .it doesnt, . .its a separation and a refining process, . .on the last rise the liquid mountain will rise so far, instead of falling, .. it separates . In quantum physics, . time divides,in religion you get heaven and hell . . the greedy are being set up like a mouse to the cheese, . .I think we are on the last cycle, . .the last rise of power, . .thats how i see it, . they are putting themselves in a cage, . .they are becoming more visible, . hey cannot win, . .the game is rigged

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

It doesnt have to be clear, . .. it just has to have a heart and a movement

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

Ugh why is that so big, what IS your formatting.

[-] 2 points by GandhiKingMindset (124) 2 years ago

The way you get the numbers is by making a demand and then taking direct non-violent action when that demand is not met. The demand is "Shut down Wall St." Why? "Because it's hurting Americans, hurting citizens of the world and ruining the environment. It's ruined the American economy. It's ruined the American political system. You make the demand. Shut down Wall St. You make it very loud and clear just as King or Gandhi would have. And when it is not met, you band together in groups of 50, 100, 300, 500 and block the entrances to Wall St. People must enter from the public streets so by definition there will always be entrances. Our job is to be at these entrances relentlessly, zip tied together. This non-violent tactic will absolutely CONFOUND the police and tie things up in a huge way. You will effectively shut down Wall St. And this success, this courage is what will bring the movement huge momentum. The numbers will grow EXPONENTIALLY.

[-] 1 points by npowell85 (249) from Montana City, Mt 2 years ago

While I believe your demand is misguided, that is, I feel you guys should be marching on DC and insisting on putting an end to corporate lobbying and campaign contributions as that is the source of all these issues, I definately agree with your aproach. You have to have some kind of clear message. Support for your cause will definately grow much faster. Its okay to have other complaints to lodge and ideas for reform but there must be one clear unified message to get the attention of the american people.

Like it or not our attention span is short, and you are missing your window to gather support

[-] 2 points by chrissatori (8) from Lancaster, England 2 years ago

Watching from the UK I like what you are doing and respect your honest struggle. However, with the exception of the primary demand to end the death penalty, which would in itself be a massive result, all the demands are vague, and do not specify even one particular action with which change might be initiated.

The three seminal demands suggested by Sara1977 in another thread also make a lot of sense to me:

•Removal of corporate personhood. •Public financing of political campaigns. •Reinstatement of stiff financial regulations such as Glass-Steagall

I cannot identify how negotiation is taking place between the people's assembly and the state on your demands, nor who it might be taking place with, nor what exactly the state is supposed to do, or how it is to implement a desired response.

You seem to be suggesting that someone, presumably within the existing government structure, must work this out and undertake all this nitty gritty but I'm not sure if they've been told yet.

It's time to agree exactly on specific changes you want to see in specific and concrete terms. Preferably before some of you have to go back to school. You also need to clarify who you wish to negotiate with.

If the assembly can present one clear demand to any specific state authority for one practical action that goes beyond your own immediate protest circumstances it would help to identify the point of the campaign, which currently does seem vague from outside.

[-] 2 points by agent139 (13) 2 years ago

I agree. Here's something I said to someone elsewhere about this, which I'll reiterate:

Here's my thing: in terms of the stated goals of the protest, I still can't see a line from protesting in the street toward meeting any of those goals. Which makes it an elaborate act of street theater. That isn't diminished any by the cops in uniform beating people down though it certainly ups the ante. Don't get me wrong, you know the value I put on the culture-changing potential of theater or art, but if the real target is the banks there are better ways for people to work together to hit them where it hurts. Business isn't particularly hard to disrupt with an organized group, and certainly if a good percent of a branches 'customers' could be organized to withdrawal most if not all of their funds at once it'd totally fuck the banks.

If, however, the target isn't the banks, then why are they protesting on Wall St? There's a lot about this that doesn't make a ton of sense to me though what does make sense is people's anger, their frustration, and their feeling of helplessness, so they say "fuck, I have to do SOMETHING" and so they camp out on Wall St. That makes sense. But it isn't organized.

As I said yesterday, the cops are playing a really dangerous game, because the more they up the ante the more likely it is that the protesters are going to get organized, as well as pull in more support. The more people they brutalize, the longer people are going to camp out.

Anyway, I'm all for sending supplies to people there, but I don't see what benefit there is in going to NYC to get arrested. I don't mean personal benefit, I mean even in terms of the stated cause. I'm angry as hell, but anger can be a useful motivating force, and we might risk dispersing it on protests when it could be better spent organizing things in private. Though that, too, won't happen on its own, and it's possible that the protest on Wall St is a way to externalize what was before only internalized, and as it becomes a more "real" thing for more people, then the REAL action can take place.

[-] 2 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

This is still a very young movement. What is important is that finally the people have taken to the streets...that has to have the ruling classes nervous, otherwise why would there be such a violent crackdown?

I believe that in time, things will begin to coalesce. The important thing is to not let smaller ideological/tactical differences divide us. This, IMHO, is the reason that the left has not been able to come together cohesively enough to form a viable alternative that can challenge the Dems and Repubs. I can still remember, with a shudder, when as an activist many years ago with a particular organization, members of the CP were behaving like high school bullies (honestly), claiming that the newspaper I was selling "had nothing to do with the working class." And, with a sneer to boot. I was very naive back then and truly shocked. That is not only divisive and mean-spirited but has also proven a sure path to failure. This is exactly what the oligarchy wants. It is one of the oldest tactics in the book, if you will. To put it another way, what is the best way to destroy your enemy? You get it to destroy itself from within... Only those who are not mindful of these things or who have not learned from history can succumb to this. Please let us not fall into petty quibbling. Let's show them we are united determined and indivisible no matter what.

[-] 1 points by agent139 (13) 2 years ago

I agree. Though at the same time, if people involved are really serious about democracy, they're going to have to be prepared for the fact that there's a reason - I believe - that Greek philosophy evolved as it did alongside their political system. In other words, to hold the senate floor you wind up developing rhetoric and learning debate as an art. That used to be a chunk of politics in this Republic, too, from what I understand. I mean, before it became all corporate sponsorship and "pay to play" "speech."

Anyway, I agree- my point is that if the movement isn't co-opted, it's going to take some very sharp minds that know how to really discuss ideas, debate, without turning it into empty theater. That, too, is what modern American politics has become.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Agreed. You make valid points. I commented 12 days ago and am now heartened by the growing numbers at OWS and around the country.

My concern now is more about infiltration. Many of us already know who the old players are; FBI, CIA, etc. I am referring to organizations that are funded by the likes of George Soros. Unfortunately, many progressives are not aware of were his loyalties lie.

Your thoughts and anyone else's welcome.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

FREE , . . higher education for all citizens is my pet peeve for all this, . why should the wealthy's children have the advantage, . .why should a ten year degree be a privilege only some can enjoy, . . . why should so many of our children start out a life after college inslaved to debt to a bank?, . .we all have the constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness and equality

[-] 2 points by ferncapella (10) from Milwaukie, OR 2 years ago

Good Morning Occupy Wall Street! You are our heroes on the West Coast, and we will join you on October 6th and none of us will stop until we have chanted Babylon down and risen the people up. Power to the People, Power to the Awakening, Power to Love.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Right On!!!

[-] 2 points by joejet123 (6) 2 years ago

I am a 57 year something and have been to the protest three days last week and I will be there again today with an old friend. My observation is that the protest is working and there is a lot of sympathy from all demographics. Believe it or not, there is sympathy form the cops also. They are not oblivious to what is happening in the economy. On September 16, 2011, Trenton, NJ laid off 108 police officers—1/3 of their police force. The NYPD knows this and are worried about their jobs.

The blue uniformed cops seem pretty laid back until the WHITE-SHIRT bosses come in and tell them what to do. Don’t get arrested. Arrests are one of the main things that the main-stream media reports and it only helps the mayor. Arrests are used as propaganda to show that the City is protecting the public. Since there are no leaders in the occupation, unless you are a person like Martin Luther King or Gandhi, getting arrested serves no purpose.

I watched the arrest of two people last Thursday night, 9/22. The police showed up in strong numbers, and this caused great agitation between the blue uniformed cops and the protestors as they stood nose-to-nose with each other, while the WHITE-SHIRT bosses stood behind. Inevitably the situation got tense, and two protestors broke ranks and were hauled away. If you’re caught up in this type of situation, try to remain calm.

Being peaceful seems to be the best strategy. Your movement will attract greater numbers as long as things remain fairly stable.

[-] 2 points by TedSheckler (1) 2 years ago

You are just a bunch of over-privilaged white kids who just wish to be a part of something like they did in the 60s. You are THE punchline to every joke both here in NYC and around the world. You don't even know what you're protesting for. You are an embarrassement to the 60s generation as well as our country. Comparing yourselves to protesters in Lybia is EMBARRASSING. Are you being fired at by automatic weapons and RPGs? Go home please so that you can keep the small amount of dignity you may have left.

[-] 1 points by Kaine (1) from Lansing Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

I hope they enjoy the laughter for now.

[-] 1 points by LordStark (15) 2 years ago

Or this subsequent wall of text ^_^

[-] 1 points by LordStark (15) 2 years ago

^^^ @TedSheckler

[-] 1 points by timesup (1) 2 years ago

Punchline or not we are growing. Do not fear we will free your mind brother and show you what dignity is.

[-] 2 points by WeThePeople (2) 2 years ago

I'm with you, watching and listening and hoping from Detroit. I need to stay where I'm at, for now, as my son is the most important person in my life. We are the people. We are not a corporation. I feel this is important to note, as the supposedly Supreme Court here in the US deemed corporations with the same personhood and free speech rights as we the people. Let's put an end to this and demand the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision be overturned, immediately. The revolution has started...let's form that much needed 3rd party here in the US and vote ourselves into office in 2012. The current two party system and leadership (if you can call it that) has failed the people. Viva la revolution!

[-] 2 points by Cornered (3) 2 years ago

I am so proud of you. We have seemed asleep for so long. We seemed sedated and dazed. We were incubating a new world order. We now stand and in the darkness, the world recognizes what was missing in their hearts. Hope has manifested. Darkness cannot exist in the presence of light. And so we multiply naturally.

In the name of peace and unity darkness is falling from within.

[-] 2 points by tolitobaracks77 (7) 2 years ago

The problem I have noticed is too many groups clashing. This protest should only have one thing in common. Wall Street Reform! and that is all. Keep it simple and business oriented. This is about the Dollar!. It only fuels human life when its the hands of Patriots. Left Wing, Right Wing, Communist, All of that is irrelevant to our goal. Correcting and fixing the damage of Corruption is the goal here. We can all write books here or we can all protest Wall Street and start with that. You do the math

[-] 1 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

What a bunch of spoiled brat losers. Stop blaming everyone else for your lack of success. Move to Saudi Arabia or Iran if you want to experience real oppression and lack of rights. Babies.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

Wall street reform? And do what, tell them to oppress more gently? Steal money with slightly more oversight? Stick to imperialism abroad?

[-] 2 points by kukibee (4) 2 years ago

I have to go with agnosticnixie here....this movement is about so much more than Wall Street Reform. Like free Serbia said, this struggle is the result of a much deeper discontent with the core of our entire system.

[-] 2 points by LordStark (15) 2 years ago

Agreed this is a protest about LIFE and once you understand that it becomes an EXTREMELY simple message that we all can get behind.

Although these are peaceful protests everyone out there in the park is literally fighting for their lives and way of living and I have nothing but the utmost regard and admiration for each of you.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I totally agree. It's about ALL the abuses the ones in power are handing all of us.

[-] 2 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

Can someone please put free higher education for all on the agenda, . . college should be free, we should be able to study whatever we wish to without cost, . why should our children contribute to society by going to college , only to start their new life with a huge debt afterwards, . . anyone in this world should be able to go on to be a doctor or a lawyer, . . Higher education should be free for all citizens of this country

[-] 1 points by karenpoore (902) 2 years ago

I have never understood why we the people have to pay for college to work for corporations!

[-] 1 points by valentyne (9) 2 years ago

What a lot of people don't understand is that universities ARE corporations. Obama and the banks want you to take out loans to go to college because money is debt. In fact you should all watch "money is debt" on youtube. Nobody cares if you can get a "good job" after you graduate (except maybe your parents).

All they care about is have you created new money by taking out a whopping loan. College debt is the new bad mortgage.

[-] 1 points by valentyne (9) 2 years ago

What you should all do instead of fucking up/with the banks is find people with business degrees or get one yourself (see, nobody wants to be the square) and start your own ethical bank. Fuck college and start an organic farm collective.

Or go into the trades. Right now the only young people with trade skills are foreigners. I'm a 50 year old woman and make 100k a year. But I work outside with my hands and my hands get dirty. Oh my!

Yeah, so I don't get to brag at parties about my job, but I work for myself and answer to no boss. It's pretty nice.

Start your own bank already! Start an organic farm collective, learn a trade and work for yourself.

p.s. I have a college degree, voted for Obama, am a liberal and am behind what you are doing 100%.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

100k a year, . . teach me!

[-] 1 points by valentyne (9) 2 years ago

come to seattle, i'll teach ya !

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

do you have a blog or web page on it?, . . I love gardening already

[-] 1 points by valentyne (9) 2 years ago

I will direct message you.

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

it is so that after getting the student loans people need to work for the corporations just to pay the loans.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

yep

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

for me, those people are "our children"

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

For me our children are people, and people are our children.

[-] 1 points by Dublin99 (65) 2 years ago

Education from infant right through to third level is free in Ireland. It opens up education to all.

Everyone has the right to be educated.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Lucky you. No education here is free, unless you homeschool.

[-] 1 points by mercy (7) 2 years ago

Homeschooling is not free in America. You have to buy things you use to teach in most cases. A complete package curriculum or even an online one is not free. Yes there are free stuff out there , but it is very hard to find everything you need for free in order to teach a certain level at home. You also have to buy your own books if your library does not carry them , you have to buy your own school supplies, printers , computers, paper,software and so on, all that comes out of your pocket. Not the communities pocket , or the state or federal. It is what you can afford , which is much cheaper then public and private school , and is often better.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Agreed. I should have clarified that I meant you don't have to pay tuition or taxes for homeschooling like you do with public and private schools and colleges/universities.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

dont forget the cost of your own personal time doing it either, . .its a valid opportunity cost

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

Home school cost alot, but then again, you can control the curriculum

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

what is the equivalent of the third level here in the US?, . .forgive my ignorance . .

[-] 1 points by Dublin99 (65) 2 years ago

Third level is University.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

thank you, . .may i also add that if higher education is free, . .the govt and big money influences must be kept out

[-] 0 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

Well, because then colleges and universities would not be able to function adequately? Canada subsidizes their universities, but they only have 92. America has almost 3,000 4-year schools alone, and another 2,000 community colleges.

The best schools get the best professors who have had experience in their respective fields. They're able to do that by paying them wages that can compete with what they would make if they continued working. A lawschool has to pay to keep a top lawyer teaching, because otherwise why wouldn't they keep working as a lawyer? Same with med school, heck, even art schools.

It just is not feasible without taking a huge dip in the /quality/ of education. The government has FASFA and other programs to attempt to alleviate the cost, but unless we half our colleges/universities and lose our best and brightest teachers -- it's just not feasible.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

population - Canada , 34,million people. . United States , 312,million people, . .hmmm, wonder why the US has more colleges than Canada, . . . .

Besides, I count 99 colleges in Canada ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_in_Canada ), . . and 93 universities in Canada ,( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Canada ), .. for a total of 192 colleges and universities, . . all of which I am sure Canada is most proud!., . .Other " four year schools, . do I need to look?"

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

Now that you have been disqualified by the facts you so well put a spin on, . .. I also believe America has gone through an Industrial era most well, . not simply because we had the best political system, . (Free market , which I like by the way) , but also because we live in a country with vast resources, . . . forests, fertile land, oceans, mineral deposits, oil reserves, etc, . .. this let us leap ahead in an era called the industrial era, . we shined then, . .but that era is coming to an end, . .what we have now is the end of the industrial era, the start of the technological era, . and an economic slowdown for our country, . .during industrial economic expansion yes we built many excellent colleges and also hospitals in this country, . ..but that era is ending, . I truely believe we need to move into a socialist system for these two slowing sectors, . and use this opportunity to provide for our children, . ALL OUR CHILDREN!, . . Medicine now needs to be socialized on an all men being created equal basis, . and Higher education in these fine facilities, . needs to be available to all, . .if higher education is available to all, . it will in turn, help us move in a forward direction, into the tech era, . .nuff said, . .. btw,Kaylababe, . .I think Adam20751's comment below was meant for you!

[-] 1 points by Adam20751 (58) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I disagree. The defense budget could easily cover the expenses.

Moreover, education that is not capitalist in nature requires less physical resources. If our priorities were in different places, administration and technology would be hugely smaller expenses.

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

Defense brings in more profit that can fund more programs than the one you're describing. If the US didn't have such a huge defense program, it would be a lot more in debt and wouldn't be able to give what little money they do, sadly.

[-] 1 points by Adam20751 (58) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Kaylababe,

I wish I had a brilliant analogy to describe the role of the concept "profit" in our misunderstanding. I don't.

I think the issue is made most clear by considering the following:

Imagine I own a company that employs one hundred Indonesians to make pistols. I sell the pistols for profit, and use the money (or the government appropriates it, etc.) to employ a teacher. I think this (as well as some account of the value of technological progress) is generally the sort of good you're describing that the defense sector does.

I suspect that our disagreement lies in two places. One is my sense that the experience of making and owning weapons is a sort of curriculum of violence that does people harm, and two is my sense that it's a better use of resources and better educational practice to take the teacher to the Indonesians, do some farming , sit in a circle during lunch break, and talk about life, the universe, and everything.

In simplest terms, I agree that some of the productivity the defense sector embodies makes it back to the education system and is helpful to society generally, but I think the central problem is that not enough of it does, and that too much of it ends up creating new problems.

It's fantasy, I know, but consider the "security" an educational-peace-corps-like army the size of the entire defense industry could provide if well directed.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

If the US was more friendly towards its neighbors, It wouldn't need a huge defense budget

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Yep!!!!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Are you saying that colleges in countries where college is free are inferior to U.S. colleges? And FAFSA doesn't help people like me one bit.... who make too much to get any help from FAFSA but who make too little to pay the high costs for college without going deeply into debt. Is it OK that just about anything we do here in the States (higher education, medical care, buying a house or car, etc.) puts us deeply into debt?

[-] 1 points by kaylababe (14) 2 years ago

Of course it's not right, and I'm saying let's find actual solutions and try to fix the system instead of stomping our feet and hoping someone else will listen and fix it for us.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Um.... a protest is the BEGINNING of CHANGE. Have you not heard of/seen protests that have changed the world throughout history? How uninformed you are. Protesters aren't just stomping their feet and waiting for someone else to change things. Protests HELP bring about change. From protests, organizing and work happens.

For someone who claims to know how to change things, you sure do seem clueless.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

I found an actual solution, . where were you?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

No, it's because they wouldn't be able to make a profit. Remember, capitalism (and greed) is what drives the USA. Canada is very different than it is here. And Canada has a much lower population than the USA does.

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 2 years ago

It would be really difficult for American education to take a dip in quality, I remember a brief by US department of education that stated that over 50% of American college graduates cannot comprehend one page of simple text, if They say it...

And it is certainly feasible, my friend, Argentina has Universal Free education from elementary school to graduate school, it is an issue of priorities as agent139 stated, Argentina invests over 6% of its GDP in education, how much % of its GDP does the US invests in education?

I'm not saying that education here is much better that over there, but if you are gonna get a shitty education, you should get it for free, or even better, they should pay you to "educate" you.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I agree. But, of course, a lot of Americans would argue that our education is superior to all other countries' education, which is hogwash.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

Alot of Americans would argue that alot of things (in fact all things) were better in America, (like the health care for instance) , which would also be hog wash. . . Some in this country have been brainwashed by the corporate media to take their American pride a little too far I think. . . they tend to lose sight of reality

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I totally agree. If we did a comparison of many things here in the States to those same things in many other countries.... pretty much all of Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, etc., we'd get our butts kicked in all of it. And if you compare certain things here to things in even more countries, we'd get our butts kicked.

Cuba may have a dictator, but ALL of its citizens get FREE healthcare, FREE education, FREE college, FREE other things. You can earn a PhD for FREE there.

We need to take the bits and pieces from other countries that are successful and incorporate them here.

All that patriotic bullshit gets shoved down our throats in public school (at least that's been my experience). I went to 4 different elementary schools, and I remember the teachers constantly telling us that the USA is the best country in the world. When you're young, you are vulnerable and very impressionable.... therefore, you tend to believe what they tell you. I remember believing them, and I had a lot of patriotism growing up (during the communist/cold war days).... but then I started to realize the truth the older I got and realized that what they tell you is bullshit. Of course, the media, politics, religion, etc. also influence you in those beliefs as well.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

when you say "We need to take the bits and pieces from other countries that are successful and incorporate them here." - I couldn't agree more, . People aim at so many things and call it socialism, . .but if the majority here wanted to copy a better program from overseas (Healthcare for instance), . .and the majority of the people voted that system in, . .it would then be democratic, . wouldn't it?, . . .this country has had so many opportunties to look over elsewhere and find such good programs for the people here, . but the corporations not wanting to go under fight it with big money, and that wins out!, . the system definitely needs to be changed , and the power (And the voice) definitely needs to be returned back to the people who live here, .I say and the voice, because the corporate media has already brainwashed so many people here, . .it all makes no sense when it comes to the welfare of the common good of the people

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Exactly. So many people are brainwashed into thinking socialism is so bad. We already have socialism to some degree here (paying for police and fire depts., paying for road maintenance and repair just to name a couple).... but people argue against it. If they took the time to actually educate themselves, rather than bending like straws and allowing themselves to be brainwashed so easily, maybe we could make some progress.

[-] 1 points by agent139 (13) 2 years ago

It certainly is feasible. Other nations do it. But our priorities remain in the wrong place. What percentage of the DOD's budget is the federal education budget?

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

then fasfa needs to cover all of it for everybody who cant afford it all

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

agreed

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by PEERLESS (4) 2 years ago

please listen!!! we need to get american flags in the hands of the protesters. it is imperative to the survival of the movement. please pass this word. when the soilders come, they will be less likely to fire upon those holding american flags. we must make this a patriotic movement to gain momentum and to disarm the government stance that the protesters are terroist. this will become a tactic to turn the majority against you.please, please pass this to any one you can, pass out as many flags as you can, once again , it is imperative this be done. the flag will give all a sysmbol to unite.it will draw those who are not involved. please understand the importance of this. my bothers and sisters, the time has come. it is our duty to see this through!!! good luck to us all!!!

[-] 1 points by catbestland (8) 2 years ago

Let's not forget to occupy public lands. There are millions of acres in the American west that belong to the public but has been monopolized by large private corporate ranchers who have controled our lands for over 100 years. These are not the mom and pop beef raisers who are not allowed the use of these lands. Only large subsidized corporate ranchers who are wealthy enough to own grazing leases run their privately owned cattle on our public lands for practically free. They are responsible for the absolute destruction of our wildlife heritage to protect their beef industry profits. So don't forget to occupy our public lands that most people are not even aware that they co-own with the rest of the public.

[-] 1 points by catbestland (8) 2 years ago

Let's not forget to occupy public lands. There are millions of acres in the American west that belong to the public but has been monopolized by large private corporate ranchers who have controled our lands for over 100 years. These are not the mom and pop beef raisers who are not allowed the use of these lands. Only large subsidized corporate ranchers who are wealthy enough to own grazing leases run their privately owned cattle on our public lands for practically free. They are responsible for the absolute destruction of our wildlife heritage to protect their beef industry profits. So don't forget to occupy our public lands that most people are not even aware that they co-own with the rest of the public.

[-] 1 points by catbestland (8) 2 years ago

Let's not forget to occupy public lands. There are millions of acres in the American west that belong to the public but has been monopolized by large private corporate ranchers who have controled our lands for over 100 years. These are not the mom and pop beef raisers who are not allowed the use of these lands. Only large subsidized corporate ranchers who are wealthy enough to own grazing leases run their privately owned cattle on our public lands for practically free. They are responsible for the absolute destruction of our wildlife heritage to protect their beef industry profits. So don't forget to occupy our public lands that most people are not even aware that they co-own with the rest of the public.

[-] 1 points by ronindave (1) 2 years ago

Need to create permanent, semi-permanent, and temporary occupiers to maintain the occupation. Encourage people to come out even for the weekend or an evening. They don't need to fight cops or anything crazy, just be there in solidarity and show that many people want accountability from those who have ruined our economy for their own gain

[-] 1 points by concernedinKY (1) 2 years ago

A little something for the protesters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJz7Yf9WBBQ

[-] 1 points by JusticePeace (3) from St Catharines, ON 2 years ago

Slogan for protestors: " MR. OBAMA! BRING DOWN THIS WALL".

this wall is more diabolical, insidious, and monstrous than berin wall ever was or could have been. This is a STONEWALL...The Glasnost of CORPORATE USA has begun! ...Let not the wheels come to a grind..IT is NOW or NEVER!

[-] 1 points by JusticePeace (3) from St Catharines, ON 2 years ago

Slogan for protestors: " MR. OBAMA! BRING DOWN THIS WALL".

this wall is more diabolical, insidious, and monstrous than berin wall ever was or could have been. This is a STONEWALL...The Glasnost of CORPORATE USA has begun! ...Let not the wheels come to a grind..IT is NOW or NEVER!

[-] 1 points by JusticePeace (3) from St Catharines, ON 2 years ago

Slogan for protestors: " MR. OBAMA! BRING DOWN THIS WALL".

this wall is more diabolical, insidious, and monstrous than berin wall ever was or could have been. This is a STONEWALL...The Glasnost of CORPORATE USA has begun! ...Let not the wheels come to a grind..IT is NOW or NEVER!

[-] 1 points by zppy (2) 2 years ago

i'm glad to see there are a lot of good suggestions on this thread. my main issue with this "movement" is that they have no demands - or rather it is very vague. what specific legislation are you demanding should be passed? without any demands why would the people in power you are against do anything? they don't have to do anything. these people do not seem to want real change for the better but instead they just want to be heard saying they are upset. the orignal ad that ran in ADBUSTERS which i have in front of me asks on the top in bold text "WHAT IS OUR ONE DEMAND" they have taken this question out on their home page... i wonder why. this is the core of it - what can be done? what is it that they want? they are like a crying baby that can't speak and we don't know how to help.....

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 2 years ago

Occupy Wall St. is nothing but a vanity campaign with no teeth and unless it resorts to blocking traffic every week day during business hours it will be nothing but squirrel getting crushed by a Mac Truck on the interstate. I can no longer spend my time or money on a campaign that will accomplish nothing. Good luck on your learning curve but I'm out.

LloydJHart 508-697-9153

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

A transition plan means we USE money, We EVOLVE money, We TRANSCEND money. "Kill" does not enter into that. noway. nohow. ever. 4 minutes ago · Like John Bassist A transition plan means we grow our own food, form our own communities, and build new and evolutionary civil infrastructures and transition into possible futures with all of the trappings of Star Trek. A transition plan means localization, tribalization, self sufficiency, and a new kind of super corporation or super community which is self sufficient to build anything anybody wants. Nowhere in any of that is there any "kill." 2 minutes ago · Like John Bassist We GROW out of money the long hard slog evolutionary way. Not suddenly. Not kill. Not death. Not fight. Not moneywar. We arrive at no money not by putting that in front of us, as a goal, but as an incidental bi product of technological and economic singularity. We do need to end money. But not as adolsecent juvenile delinquint trolls out calling for the DEATH of things... but as agents of evolutionary process who are wisely using the current system plus our new evolutionary strategies until at some future moment money becomes incidentally obsolete. Quit your evil pathetic sin city whining and preaching and GET TO THE WORK for human evolution.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

seriously.. when will you all grow up? these tactics are all of them two dimensional and playing the game they want you to play.

Its childlike simplicity ... its not sane. Youwant ral change you must do the evolutionary work for that change. protesting and hacking wars will only give them the excuses they need to crush civil liberties. End the illusion of democracy. These are all of them stupid and silly strategies. Whats neededis an information revolution, a paradigm shift, a viral new evolutionary attention to science facts which BTW utterly destroys the lies of both political parties and the elites assorted control mechanisms. You can step sidewise into the information future and simply take a new possible future ...or you can "protest" like its 1969..get beat up...and sent to jail...and then another 40year lull of cowardice. You are all beingplayed to play the infantile game and thus lose. Join me in the adult game ...it transcends their game in ways that do not include police violence.

So I'm curious John. What solutions are you presenting?" The list is nearly endless. Geothermal power, localization of economics, permaculture, self sufficient community.. I have real solutions. Most relevant to THIS discussion lets talk about PHRASING things in an ADULT and LUCID manner instead of just becoming anti capitalism trolls. " Any movements you're a part of that you agree with in ideology, or are you just here to criticize actual movements?" I agree with the general direction of tzm. I'm just sick and tired of all the stupid and evil and stupid and evil which tzm keeps heaping on to make my job of saving the humans far more difficult.

?"Instead, I have you talking smack about the killmoney perspective," perspective? now your trolling lingo is a whole perspective? " calling it violent and saying other absurd things." there is nothing absurd about pointing out that kill money is a violent and anti science and anti intellectual meme. " John, you should know me by now, I don't believe in violence, " then preach solutions, not violence. "I just believe in the death of an age old notion, that actually proves to be most violent idea outside of WMD's." great, and i agree with that in principle which is exactly why i'd like to not have all my allies making us all look like frigging 13 year olds who can't tell the difference between violence and real world problem solving process. " So stop the sillyness john, " you stop the sillyness. please. "there are better ways you can go about any differences you have with my ppoints of view" i have run this lame meme over and over and over and ever again with tzmers. i have been nice, i have been kind, i have been diplomatic. You all don't listen, and you keep in essence taking us down the road towards doom. I'd like to have REAL allies, not stupid anticapitalists making us all look bad with punk azz moron propaganda which any ADULT wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

John Bassist again with the "kill" meme. sigh. 22 hours ago · Like Andre Burrell John Bassist = paranoid troll. 21 hours ago · Like · 2 people John Bassist bull. I'm no kind of troll. the "kill" meme is stupid and evil. 10 hours ago · Like John Bassist thats the problem with tzmers. They have only violence and stupid rhetoric based in violence- not one whit of sophistication or depth or real solutions... just more death and evil to add to the problem. 10 hours ago · Like John Bassist and THEN they want to make it everybody elses fault and problem, and diabolize everyone else... when they are the ones running stupid and evil. 10 hours ago · Like John Bassist ?"kill money". 90 percent of the food people eat on this planet is attached to 9 pounds of fuel for every pound of food. if you just kill money, the food distribution network fails and then everyone DIES. Killing money is not a solution, it...See More 9 hours ago · Like John Bassist Thats NOT a TRANSITION PLAN, its an adolescent ego trip 9 hours ago · Like Andre Burrell See what I mean?

:) 9 hours ago · Like Andre Burrell So I'm curious John. What solutions are you presenting? Any movements you're a part of that you agree with in ideology, or are you just here to criticize actual movements? 9 hours ago · Like Lorenzo Segarra Because ppl need money for survival? John please......stop trolling; your better than this. PS - I sent you an email over a month ago looking to collaborate, have yet to hear anything. Instead, I have you talking smack about the killmoney p...See More 3 hours ago · Like · 1 person John Bassist I'm not trolling. "Kill money" is a problem meme, its exactly whats wrong with tzm in one meme. Not a solution, not a problem solving process, not a transition plan; more violence. more stupid ignorant trolling. Whos trolling? your proposing we "kill money" your trolling money live. I'm the one asking you to grow The F up. 3 hours ago · Like John Bassist ?"Instead, I have you talking smack about the killmoney perspective," perspective? now your trolling lingo is a whole perspective? " calling it violent and saying other absurd things." there is nothing absurd about pointing out that kill m...See More 3 hours ago · Like John Bassist ?"So I'm curious John. What solutions are you presenting?" The list is nearly endless. Geothermal power, localization of economics, permaculture, self sufficient community.. I have real solutions. Most relevant to THIS discussion lets talk...See More 3 hours ago · Like John Bassist ?"kill money" is not a transition plan. Its a stupid, evil, violent, pointless, non solution, its an infantile and pathetic and ignorant non solution, its exactly why we can't get scientists involved in your so called movement. Stop being stupid ignorant infantile adolescent trolls and start being a social movement. You can't do both. Choose. 3 hours ago · Like John Bassist which is it? social movement? or anti capitalism troll cult? You seem to have already unfortunately made up your mind. I don't hang time with trolls people get the idea somehow that i'm one of them... you know... the whole bit about being careful about what your freinds say about you. 3 hours ago · Like Lorenzo Segarra John chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand, so please let's clear the air. E...See More 2 hours ago · Like John Bassist ?"ohn chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand," Nor am i going to take any tim...See More about an hour ago · Like Andre Burrell No point. Bassist = Paranoid troll with mental issues :-\

I've dealt with him in the Shit's Got to Go group and he's the same way. Just repeats the same thing with no particular reasoning as to why he believes what he does. Just a troll with a fake profile :-\ 20 minutes ago · Like John Bassist i love that its so obvious who the real trolls are. The trolls are the people with no solutions, who are proposing and promulgating social violence, while they merely attack and demean corporatism. I'm the problem solver, and that makes the "kill" meme and you people trolling with it my problem. Andre just another fine example of trapped matrix mind. Projecting your collective shadow at me instead of seeing the simple truth; which is in this case that "kill money" is a wrecklessly infantile meme, which alienates more people than it convinces and which operates in actuality to absolve you of any REAL RESPONSIBILITY , prevent you or anyone from doing the actual work, a stupid, irresponsible and patently evil meme which in essence allows you to define only the social violence you intend to do and double think that your not doing. I'm the lucid, I have the real solutions, but your going to draw on and swipe and slash at me; because your a bunch of brain dead "kill money" zombies instead of participants in any kind of real social movement, or social evoluitionary event. Your giving the capitalist the black pawns they need to scare their sheeple stupid and dupe them; your only serving the "socialism" fear machine. Your just GIVING the elites the villains they need to make it seem like its either their way or debased anarchistic immoral unethical insanity. "kill" who do you think that turns on aside from people already convinced money is a problem? Get real. Grow up. 9 minutes ago · Like John Bassist Accusing me of having mental issues. What a bunch of evil bastards TZM is. When you can't handle the truth you attack somebodies sanity. Who are the real trolls? excuse me? 9 minutes ago · Like John Bassist and my profile is completely real. name one thing not real about it. 8 minutes ago · Like John Bassist Andre Burrel = sleepwalking TZM cult zombie; out trolling against the truth and anybody who knows whats real and calling us the trolls when deep down inside you all know he is. Your all playing a stupid evil secret unsecret game. You know darn well i'm the one with the truth and the light and the real information. but you'd rather be on the moral high ground and have your evil cult club than facilitate real social evolution- because TZMers are universally afraid of WORK. And thats all "kill money " is- a means to the end of defining the problem so that its all crime and no sweat. Violence. violence which you SAY you don't REALLY mean.. but which you carry out- every day- against the truth- and people like me bothering to tell it. Put down your swords and step away from human extinction. "Kill money" is just one more path to everybody dies. Not a transition plan. 5 minutes ago · Like John Bassist A transition plan means we USE money, We EVOLVE money, We TRANSCEND money. "Kill" does not enter into that. noway. nohow. ever. 4 minutes ago · Like John Bassist A transition plan means we grow our own food, form our own communities, and build new and evolutionary civil infrastructures and transition into possible futures with all of the trappings of Star Trek. A transition plan means localization, tribalization, self sufficiency, and a new kind of super corporation or super community which is self sufficient to build anything anybody wants. Nowhere in any of that is there any "kill." 2 minutes ago · Like John Bassist We GROW out of money the long hard slog evolutionary way. Not suddenly. Not kill. Not death. Not fight. Not moneywar. We arrive at no money not by putting that in front of us, as a goal, but as an incidental bi product of technological and economic singularity. We do need to end money. But not as adolsecent juvenile delinquint trolls out calling for the DEATH of things... but as agents of evolutionary process who are wisely using the current system plus our new evolutionary strategies until at some future moment money becomes incidentally obsolete. Quit your evil pathetic sin city whining and preaching and GET TO THE WORK for human evolution. a few seconds ago · Like


"ohn chill out here bro,we are all on the same team. Its clear that there are some communication issues here. I think its clear the kill money project isn't something you've taken the time out to understand," Nor am i going to take any time to understand it, nor will any other reasonable people. Its a wrong and pig headed violent meme. period. "kill." the end. Thats violent. thats not a solution. thats a big frigging extra problem. " so please let's clear the air. Everyone who knows mr killmoney isn't about anything violent, its just my way of bringing mainstream attention to the issue at hand, " Grow up with your communication. Whether you intend it as violent or not it is still violent. you saying you don't intend violent only makes us go.. wow.. this gy is not actually like paying attention to the MEANING of the WORDS hes using. "which is the way the monetary shit-stem has paralyzed humanity. I chose such a vulgar and pornographic meme because I felt it best captures the current crisis in a very simple, direct and catchy phrase." it captures the ignorance, stupidity, lack of real solutions, and arrogant infantile egotism very effectively. " It has proven to be a great icebreaker for starting a conversation of the the monetary shit-stem." great.... you prolly have no idea how many more people it just turns off. " I have never in any of my posts, blogs, or aanywhere in my perspective have suggested that violent actions be taken towards anyone anywhere," sorry, "kill money" is a suggestion of violence. period. Whether you intend it or not thats what the words mean. " no do I personally believe that violence is a solution for any problem. " irrelevant. If you don't believe in violence stop promoting it. "Again, im saying to kill money, money which is just an idea or a notion. " the consequences of such an action are systemic and real and clearly a whole lot deeper and more complicated than you have bothered to imagine. "The same way we killed the "flat-earth" notion, im suggesting we kill the money notion." Fine, that i can agree with almost... its not patently offensive. But thats not what you said you did not say "kill the idea of money." you said "kill money." in any case, its an irrational non solution which tells us everything about your maturity in this. " If its still not clear, please, do ask clarifying questions, ill be happy to share my thoughts. " I don't need any clarification. The meme is stupid, irrational, violent, pointless, and causes serious damage to the ability of people like me to convince average jos to move out of their matrix mind. Your shooting the real effort for evolution in the foot. thanks to stupid memes like this, people imagine stupid cluelss ignorant rebels without a clue when they think of anti capitalsts. Your causing me and everyone whos doing actual work MORE load to carry and more problems to solve. "Remember, we are here for each other, " then grow up and start working the problems as an adult. "not against. I don't care about your experiences with other tzm;ers, I would hope by know that a few bad apples (in your eyes) don't speak for every other apple tree out there. You should know this about me by know. and if there are those that suspect your a troll, well its because you have what some could consider a "fake profile". " thats ludicrous. i live transparently and every day i am out there making a real difference while everyone else pisses it all off. "Sure I wear a mask as mr killmoney, but ppl have met me, I've been on on broadcasts that have aired all over the world revealng my true identity. In fact, you can learn who most of my relatives are, who im married to, and etc, right here on fb, which is far from what one could conclude from your page. Im not saying this is some sort of shown-n-tell contest, but to hope you understand just a little bit when folks don't take you as serious as you claim to be. Dude, I am with you, you can ask james kush, my extension of friendship is the genuine article, so please, let's continue to explore ways on hashing out our differences, and come together for the sake of humanity;past+present+future" I need ADULT allies to facilitate REAL social and evolutionary change. "Kill money" is one more propaganda warfare ignorant social suicide meme which make my life ten times harder. You should have thought this through. Maybe its time to start.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

my wife just banged on my head and said, . "Youve got alot of "stuff" up there don't you, . . . I said yeah, it just keeps rattling around!, . .I'm tired, . .gnight

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

why should i continue, . . im tired, and people keep walking into the %1 with bad jokes like its candy, . . its useless, . .but ill still come back and try to help em, . .why?

[-] 1 points by Muzhik (7) 2 years ago

There is no Middle Class. The Middle Class is dead. There are only two classes 1. The Working Class, whether employed of not, and 2.The Elites.

[-] 1 points by JohnGalt (2) 2 years ago

Thank you all for taking action and working for me and the 99%. I am with you in spirit and will soon be with you in action here in Phoenix. I see that DemocracyNow.org is providing some coverage of the "Occupy Wall Street" awakening and heard them talk about it on LinkTV too. You are our voices. Please be loud!

[-] 1 points by JohnGalt (2) 2 years ago

hank you all for taking action and working for me and the 99%. I am with you in spirit and will soon be with you in action here in Phoenix. I see that DemocracyNow.org is providing some coverage of the "Occupy Wall Street" awakening and heard them talk about it on LinkTV too. You are our voices. Please be loud!

[-] 1 points by bulldog831 (62) 2 years ago

To all law enforcement personnel monitoring this website, and to all military and first responders reading this post: Please visit www.oathkeepers.org

[-] 1 points by shantishanti (4) 2 years ago

Here is a proposal for the OWS Arts/Culture Working Group:

www.insideoutproject.net/site/about

Make sure you read the 'Group Guidelines' and contact them to verify if an OWS Group Project qualifies. My thinking is to represent the demographic diversity of supporters, of the 99%, near and far. Permission levels, permits apply. Recent media articles are debunking the myth that this is solely a whacky group of punks with a narcissistic penchant for protesting. But, a project like this humanizes the effort and offers a portrait that words sometimes can't convey. In prayer and support.

[-] 1 points by georgia99 (37) 2 years ago

david rockefeller is the root of alot of the evil. the rockfeller family help to start the central bank that takes our tax dollars and profits from war.

[-] 1 points by georgia99 (37) 2 years ago

thank yall for your voice

[-] 1 points by georgia99 (37) 2 years ago

let everybody know we want washington to listen to what we want not who pays the most money

[-] 1 points by mercy (7) 2 years ago

A suggestion. Watch/Read Naomi Wolf's End of America , and Fascist America, in 10 easy steps.

8. Control the press

If this protest grows, it is possible that you will be met with bullets by those who are to protect and serve. I would be asking the men in blue , if it came down to that , would they open fire if the order was given. Where would they stand?

[-] 1 points by Violetarojo (119) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

My good morning your mid afternoon. Checking in with love & support. Wish I was there in person am not able to.. so doing the next best thing sending oceans of strength to all of you! God bless you! Keep fighting the good fight! Don't be swayed!

[-] 1 points by BobbyOBahama (11) 2 years ago

The SOLUTION....is simple and easy ENLIGHTENMENT....where everyone comes together from a new perspective of THE PERFECT UNION.... http://theIOWAidea.com

[-] 1 points by georgia99 (37) 2 years ago

i have a small list of celbs they may try and help us raise awareness of our movement lets tweet them = lowkey is a rapper who is for the cause his twitter is lowkeyBLOG and lowkeymusic1 another good contact would be jedi mind tricks they are on twitter at jmthiphop they also have a facebook page im here in georgia thanks for your voices and im sending yall some stuff to ups store

[-] 1 points by BobbyOBahama (11) 2 years ago

Time to WAKE UP, O AWAKENED ONES....Let the Wall Street Rapture Revolution lift EVERYONE to the SOLUTION.... http://homelessinIOWA.com

[-] 1 points by wethepeople (1) 2 years ago

You are all awesome, I am proud of all of you and I repect what you are doing. Keep up the good work.

[-] 1 points by AbraxasCcs (3) from Caracas, Dto. Capital 2 years ago

We've got the technology, so we can ask for a real democracy . We must!

Democracy in real time now!!!!

[-] 1 points by paint (1) 2 years ago

Good Morning. Many worth ideas from the comments about various paths for action. The movement to take power back in the interest of the people's needs is just starting to be realized in this country. OWS is the match that will light the torch of equality. Be strong, have no fear. d.s. seattle.

[-] 1 points by JohanneSterling (1) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Good Afternoon,

My name is Johanne Sterling and I am one of the protesters who were arrested yesterday. I was also one of the women maced by the police after being cordoned off onto the sidewalk with nowhere to go.The officer who maced us name is Officer DeSantis, and he was wearing a white shirt which signified that he was the rank of at least a lieutenant. In addition to this I was grabbed by a police officer and slammed against a taxi cab in the middle of Broadway. If anyone at all has footage of this please send it me at johanne.sterling@gmail.com. If I could get in contact with you that would be great I want to make sure that these officers know we are not afraid and we will continue to speak out. I will be stopping by the park tonight. I want to make sure all six women who were maced know each other and know that we are able to apply a civil suit against the city as well as against the officer who did this.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

We are completely behind you Johanne, and I applaud your courage. And I eagerly await the moment these cops are brought to justice...

[-] 1 points by Nighthawk (2) 2 years ago

The world will be watching. It is a Moral issue. Morality will bring those with moral conscious to support you. There will be defectors from the other side. Clergy will come. You will win !

[-] 1 points by Nighthawk (2) 2 years ago

Stand Firm ! You are on the side of Justice ! They cannot break your will unless you let them. You have a purpose greater than theirs. Theirs' is greed,avarice and injustice. Be aware of those who will try to create dissension from within. Don't get paranoid just be alert. Keep egos in check. Always seek solutions for the greater good. God is on the side of Justice. Never doubt that and REMAIN on that side.

[-] 1 points by flashfox (1) from Atlanta, GA 2 years ago

Sending some love from Atlanta! Stay strong and stay safe!!

[-] 1 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

What a bunch of losers! If you idiots had a life, you wouldn't be acting like spoiled brats expecting everything to be handed to you. Get a damn job...any job. Get an education. Get going and get a life!

[-] 1 points by RobertNDavis (133) 2 years ago

If you had a life, you wouldn't be trolling here to get attention. If you had an education yourself, you'd be joining us. If you have a job (which is unlikely), don't hold your breath. It won't be there for long.

[-] 1 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

All those losers protesting their own lack of success at Wall Street are the real trolls...Stop blaming others...take responsibility for your own success or failure...

[-] 1 points by RobertNDavis (133) 2 years ago

You're not a billionaire and you won't become one. You're trolling on the internet against people who are smarter and more proactive than you are. So... take responsibility for your own failure, bud.

[-] 1 points by 722442457 (11) 2 years ago

Peace and love man You seem to have an anger problem Wake up Be happy Anger dose not work

[-] 1 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

You mean "does not work"...tell that to all the angry morons protesting at Wall Street

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

People protesting to gain back their freedoms and rights and to fight corporate control and power abuse means they are losers? Would you tell that to all the women who fought for women's rights to vote.... that they were spoiled brats, idiots, losers, people who needed to get jobs? Would you tell that to all the people who fought slavery? Would you tell that to all who fought for civil rights in the 1960s? Would you tell that to all the gay people fighting for their equal rights and freedoms?

Maybe YOU'RE the spoiled one!

[-] 1 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

Hmmm...Let's see now...The Right to Vote, The Right to Be Free of Slavery, Civil Rights, The right to be gay without being discriminated against (including the right to marry), yep...all very valid causes.

Then what is this Occupy Wall St all about? The right to a Free Ride in Life...doesn't even remotely compare to those earlier movements. Go live in North Korea..they have no stock market to hate on but they will surely put all your lazy butts to work :)

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

No one said anything about a free ride. I guess you're too dumb to comprehend, or you just are fine with people ripping other people off to the nth degree.... because you dream that some day you will do the same. It was CORPORATE AND PERSONAL GREED AND UNETHICAL PRACTICES AND ABUSE OF POWER AND UNETHICAL POLITICS that led to the 2008 financial meltdown.... which all was planned.... so the most greedy could become wealthier off the backs of the rest of us. I guess you are in favor of that.

Are you in favor of corporate personhood, as granted by the Republican-controlled U.S. Supreme Court, are you in favor of the repealing of Glass-Steagall, which led to the financial meltdown, are you in favor of citizens losing their rights and freedoms, are you in favor of working people being forced to worked like slaves 7 days a week, 14+ hours a day without receiving benefits of any kind, are you in favor of millions of people being denied affordable healthcare even when they are employed or when they get laid off from their jobs due to corporate greed, etc.? Because THOSE THINGS AND MORE are what this protest is about.

[-] 1 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

It was government meddling on the part of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac where they were giving mortgages away to people that didn't even have jobs that got this whole mess started. Perhaps you should sharpen the focus of your protests on that inconvenient little fact.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

AND it was the greed of the top players in the banks. The banks played a MAJOR role in this.

[-] 1 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

Cry babies

[-] 0 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

They are just a bunch of losers that want to blame their lack of success on others. That's exactly what children do. Grow up and take responsibility for your own destiny, not blame everyone else because you are a failure. Go live in Iran and find out about the lack of freedom and rights

[-] 1 points by streamfortyseven (15) 2 years ago

TROLL!!! Get back to Trollheim and stink that place up...

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Yes!!!!

[-] 1 points by whatabunchoflosers (9) 2 years ago

Typical moronic reply from another loser...Freedom of speech works both ways...Not just for the losers at Wall Street blaming their failures on others...

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

But your freedom of speech lacks intellectual debate.... so don't get upset when people call you out on it. Calling people a bunch of losers for protesting certainly won't get you applauds and positive remarks. Instead, you could debate intelligently by stating why you disagree with the protest, other than accusing the protesters of being losers who don't work (that's a very huge assumption and is very ignorant).

[-] 1 points by OneBodhisattva (1) from Ukiah, CA 2 years ago

KEEP IT UP! Sending love from CA. If you guys are still at it in November, I'll come out and be a reinforcement for as long as I'm able. I'm an experienced consensus facilitator and long-time activist. I would love to be of service. Hold fast, and I know I won't be the only one joining in as soon as life permits. (My kids need me here until then. And they are the future, as well as my primary responsibility.)

Stay strong! I love what you are doing and my prayers and thoughts and hopes are with you.

[-] 1 points by queen (2) 2 years ago

Can we get a modern day WPA like we had during the New Deal? It's such a simple and cost-effective way to create jobs.

[-] 1 points by o2o (1) 2 years ago

I think what you all are doing takes a lot of heart. Standing up for what you believe in and for those who need you. It seems, however, unclear exactly what your purpose is. You are "daring to imagine a new soicio-political, and economic alternative..." but what is that alternative? You are fighting against something, (corporate greed, the uneven spread of money, etc.) and fighting for someone (the 99%), but what are your plans? creating a new form of government and a new economic system will take years. the prospect of changing EVERY PERSON in this country's life is unimaginable, not to mention the political and economic implications internationally.

I'm not saying this to be discouraging but rather to bring to light the true impact a change like this will have, and, what I believe, are the necessary tools. You have not been taken seriously enough yet. 1. True you are rebelling against a system, a system which we have all lived in and a system by which, if you do not show some respect for, you won't ever be taken seriously enough. A change like this needs to have back-up, research, books etc. Have the few intellectual leaders compose a series of articles or pamphlets or something. To invoke change you must convey it in a way that is generally accepted by all of the public and not just your own supporters. People listen when there are facts backing something up because we live in a world that lacks TRUST. What is in place is there for a reason. It is the way our history went, no matter how fair or unfair. You have the heart and opportunity to help correct the mistakes of our past. But it is no easy task. Good luck. I hope this helps.

[-] 1 points by RichZubaty (37) from Wailuku, HI 2 years ago

God bless you all. Don't leave yet! It's Better than the 60s — More politics, less dope, no draft. Same Love.

[-] 1 points by b33m3R (23) from Alpharetta, GA 2 years ago

Stay strong, stay focused and above all stay safe.

[-] 1 points by b33m3R (23) from Alpharetta, GA 2 years ago

You guys stay strong, stay focused and above all stay safe. I can't be there with you, sorry. I've been e-mailing every news rag I can find asking them to cover this event to no avail. The Powers That Be are scared. Fear rules with an iron hand. Just be careful, please be careful.

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later, is the people versus the banks." ~ Lord Action (1934-1902) English Historian

"Money does not pay for anything, never has, never will. It is an economic axiom as old as the hills that goods and services can be paid for only with goods and services." ~ Albert Jay Nock

When they overrun the defenses A minor invasion put down to expenses Will you go down to the airport lounge Will you accept your second class status A nation of waitresses and waiters Will you mix their martinis Will you stand still for it Or will you take to this hills ~ Roger Waters / Home / Radio KAOS

[-] 1 points by bambu (2) 2 years ago

I have been waiting for years for this to happen. Thank you all for protesting!.. I will join you when I am back in the States

[-] 1 points by PoetaGuerrera (1) 2 years ago

Hi all - I was thinking... Maybe we need to find people to translate this website. We can make the movement more global that way. I can help translate in Spanish. At the very least - the mission statement should be in multiple languages.

[-] 1 points by chrissatori (8) from Lancaster, England 2 years ago

Watching from the UK I like what you are doing and respect your honest struggle. However, with the exception of the primary demand to end the death penalty, which would in itself be a massive result, all the demands are vague, and do not specify even one particular action with which change might be initiated.

The three seminal demands suggested by Sara1977 in another thread also make a lot of sense to me:

•Removal of corporate personhood. •Public financing of political campaigns. •Reinstatement of stiff financial regulations such as Glass-Steagall

I cannot identify how negotiation is taking place between the people's assembly and the state on your demands, nor who it might be taking place with, nor what exactly the state is supposed to do, or how it is to implement a desired response.

You seem to be suggesting that someone, presumably within the existing government structure, must work this out and undertake all this nitty gritty but I'm not sure if they've been told yet.

It's time to agree exactly on specific changes you want to see in specific and concrete terms. Preferably before some of you have to go back to school. You also need to clarify who you wish to negotiate with.

If your assembly can present one clear demand to any specific state authority for one practical action that goes beyond your own immediate protest circumstances it would help to identify the point of the campaign, which currently seems vague from outside.

[-] 1 points by chrissatori (8) from Lancaster, England 2 years ago

Watching from the UK I like what you are doing and respect your honest struggle. However, with the exception of the primary demand to end the death penalty, which would in itself be a massive result, all the demands are vague, and do not specify even one particular action with which change might be initiated.

The three seminal demands suggested by Sara1977 in another thread also make a lot of sense to me:

•Removal of corporate personhood. •Public financing of political campaigns. •Reinstatement of stiff financial regulations such as Glass-Steagall

I cannot identify how negotiation is taking place between the people's assembly and the state on your demands, nor who it might be taking place with, nor what exactly the state is supposed to do, or how it is to implement a desired response.

You seem to be suggesting that someone, presumably within the existing government structure, must work this out and undertake all this nitty gritty but I'm not sure if they've been told yet.

It's time to agree exactly on specific changes you want to see in specific and concrete terms. Preferably before some of you have to go back to school. You also need to clarify who you wish to negotiate with.

If your assembly can present one clear demand to any specific state authority for one practical action that goes beyond your own immediate protest circumstances it would help to identify the point of the campaign, which currently seems vague from outside.

[-] 1 points by chrissatori (8) from Lancaster, England 2 years ago

Watching from the UK I like what you are doing and respect your honest struggle. However, with the exception of the primary demand to end the death penalty, which would in itself be a massive result, all the demands are vague, and do not specify even one particular action with which change might be initiated.

The three seminal demands suggested by Sara1977 in another thread also make a lot of sense to me:

•Removal of corporate personhood. •Public financing of political campaigns. •Reinstatement of stiff financial regulations such as Glass-Steagall

I cannot identify how negotiation is taking place between the people's assembly and the state on your demands, nor who it might be taking place with, nor what exactly the state is supposed to do, or how it is to implement a desired response.

You seem to be suggesting that someone, presumably within the existing government structure, must work this out and undertake all this nitty gritty but I'm not sure if they've been told yet.

It's time to agree exactly on specific changes you want to see in specific and concrete terms. Preferably before some of you have to go back to school. You also need to clarify who you wish to negotiate with.

If your assembly can present one clear demand to any specific state authority for one practical action that goes beyond your own immediate protest circumstances it would help to identify the point of the campaign, which currently seems vague from outside.

[-] 1 points by pjdnyc (4) 2 years ago

You are all heroes. Don't give up !

[-] 1 points by VolusiaFlaglerDream (1) 2 years ago

That was a beautiful post. Thank you. And thank you.

[-] 1 points by makeitbetter (2) 2 years ago

Please tell me that more high profile people are going to join this movement. I'm just past middle aged, no job prospects, losing my material possessions one by one. I've been watching from the edges, waiting for more people to step forward. Those videos and photos of the violence used by police to try to intimidate U.S. citizens have moved me to tears, then anger, and finally, finally to action. I'll be there in a few days. Keep up the good work! Peace and strength.

[-] 1 points by makeitbetter (2) 2 years ago

Please tell me that more high profile people are going to join this movement. I'm just past middle aged, no job prospects, losing my material possessions one by one. I've been watching from the edges, waiting for more people to step forward. Those videos and photos of the violence used by police to try to intimidate peaceful citizens have moved me to tears, then anger, and finally, finally to action. I'll be there in a few days. Keep up the good work! Peace and strength.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Roseanne Barr already has spoken at the protest, and many rappers have been there. Michael Moore also has been there.

[-] 1 points by mattymatt (88) from New York, NY 2 years ago

More high profile people will join once this gains momentum and the suppor base broadens. I think even celebrities are afraid of joining something that seems too fringe and to be honest - lacks a crystal clear goal at the moment,

[-] 1 points by DusanfromSerbia (34) from Београд, Централна Србија 2 years ago

@mattymatt You re right, the goal should be determine, and it should be achievable, and it should be the first goal on a list. I must repeat here also, I know that the first goal should be a demand from mainstream media to stop suppressing the truth. We may know the truth but the most of people could not believe in it, they only trust the main TV stations. Protest before their buildings and demand for revealing those big frauds and crimes, demand from them to broadcast in main news the story from Moore and others.

[-] 1 points by joogle (55) 2 years ago

Check out the USA Parliament, we've been electing pure proportional representation (PR) parliaments for 16 consecutive years.

I will be happy to answer questions. We've only grown by one person since I started posting here two days ago. Did someone ask about the Pot Party?

We were founded when the Environmentalist Party (EP) was founded by Misha Bogatirev [Environmentalist] in 1983, and then when the EP had a split in 1995, the 100-member USA Parliament was elected and we adopted non profit corporate bylaws. The bylaws were replaced by our elected rules, about six years ago.

http://usparliament.org/rules.php

Hon Marcus Denoon [Pot] was our first prime minister (RIP) in 1996.

We went to the triple prime minister system in around 2005:

History

Former Prime Ministers

1st Prime Minister Marcus Denoon [Pot] 1996 2nd Prime Minister John Renna [Pizza] 1996 3rd Prime Minister Daniel Brockman [Environmentalist] 1996 4th Prime Minister Steve Michael [AIDS Cure] 1996 to 1997 6th Prime Minister Rob Elliott [Independent] 8/12/2004 to 10/22/2005 7th Prime Minister George Nelson [United Veterans Rights] 9/7/2004 to 10/20/2005 5th Prime Minister Igor Chudov [Libertarian] 1997 to 4/8/2007 "stands down" 9th Prime Minister Victor Cantu [Democratic] 10/22/2005 to 8/21/2007 11th Prime Minister Charles Bruce Stewart [Green Libertarian] 8/21/2007 to 8/26/2007 12th Prime Minister George Nelson [National Veterans Freedom] 8/26/2007 to 9/6/2007 13th Prime Minister Ted Brown [Libertarian] 9/6/2007 to 4/6/2008 "stands down" 14th Prime Minister Gail Lightfoot [Libertarian] 4/24/2008 to 5/30/2008 15th Prime Minister Ned Roscoe [Libertarian] 10/20/2005 to 8/14/2008 10th Prime Minister Robert Elliott 4/9/2007 to 10/19/2008 16th Prime Minister Mary J. Ruwart [Libertarian] 5/30/2008 to 12/9/2010 "stands down" 18th Prime Minister Ralph Hoffmann [Democratic-Republican] 10/19/2008 to 1/21/2011 19th Prime Minister Charles Bruce Stewart [Green Libertarian] 12/9/2010 to 1/22/2011 20th Prime Minister Chelene Nightingale [Constitution] 1/21/2011 to 4/13/2011 "stands down"

Former Secretaries

1st Secretary James Ogle [Labor] 1995 2nd Secretary Gary Swing [TAOAF] 1995 to 10/10/2005(?) 3rd Secretary James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] 10/10/2005 to 4/6/2008 4th Secretary Michael Badnarik [Libertarian] (?) to 7/22/2008 5th Secretary David Olkkola 7/22/2007 to 12/15/2010 6th Secretary Vanessa Morley [Defender of the Republic] 4/24/2008 to August of 2009 "stands down" 7th Secretary Mikki Tenj [Phreak the Fourth] 8/30/2008 to 9/30/2008 "stands down"

Current Secretaries

8th Secretary James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] elected August of 2009 9th Secretary Jacob Covich [Catholic Trotskyist] elected December 15, 2010

Current US Parliament Prime Ministers

17th Prime Minister Gail Lightfoot [Libertarian] elected 8/14/2008 22nd Prime Minister Charles Bruce Stewart [Green Libertarian] elected 4/13/2011 21st Prime Minister Roseanne Barr [Green Tea] elected 1/22/2011


Right now we have 60 full Cabinet Ministers, and we're looking for 12 volunteers as Directors within each Cabinet. Go to the signup page to join, we get about 2 to 5 new members self appointing a month during slow periods like right now. During faster periods, we grow by about 100 a month.


http://usparliament.org/signup.php


The Sixty Full Cabinet Ministers http://usparliament.org/cab-1.php

Peace Minister Herb [aqua tangerine] Federal Elections Commission Minister Cheryl Martin-Buescher [Free Thinker] Love Minister Loris Scagliarini [Independent] Interior Minister David Gwaltney [Green Tea] Industry Minister Tasvir Singh Bhardwaj [Green] Vote Counting Minister James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] Programming Minister Robert S. [Pot] Farming Minister Ambra [Info. Not Avil.] Foreign Minister Jane Violet [AnarChrist] Economics Minister Jim Burns [Libertarian] Defense Minister Tina Drugg [Goddess] Peace and Love Minister Lisa Davis [Bong] Capitalist Minister Coty Scott [Capitalist] Special Events Minister Lolo Rose [Artarchist] Equipment Minister Roger Mead [Green Tea] Customer Service Minister Brittany Hinkemeyer [Bong] SEC Minister Paul Wetterau [Anarchist] Musical Director Minister Byron Anonymous [Independent Green Tea] Marketing Minister Joshua-Paul Angell [Socialist, CPUSA] Environmental Minister Marla Ingels [Independent] Civil Rights Minister Kalera Stratton [Discordian] Commerce Minister Harriet Bookstein [Info. Not Avail.] Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry Minister Mounir Hilmi [The People's Party] Independent Expenditure Minister Shannon Cox [RoseanneArchist] IRS Minister Michele Marie Bachmann [Republican] Propaganda Minister Savva Vassiliev [Progressive Libertarian] BATF Minister Jeannette O'Neal [Non-partisan] Crown Minister Colleen Camp Goldwyn [Info. Not Avail.] Federal Communications Commissioner Minister Hal Ginsberg [Info. Not Avail.] Soil and Water Conservation Minister Anita Stewart [Green] Health and Human Services Minister Randy Hicks [Green] NASA Minister Joe Paul Manship [Libertarian] Chaos CHON Minister Seth Wetmore [Green Chaos] Platform Minister J.R. Myers [Constitution] Veterans Affairs Minister Gail Lightfoot [Libertarian] FBI Minister April Flint [Democratic] Chief of Staff Minister Helen Caldicott [Info. Not Avail.] National Security Minister Jodell Bumatay [Republican] CIA Minister Tippy Canoe [Roseannarchist] Families, Housing, Community and Indigenous People Minister Vicky Holte Takamine [Info. Not Avail.] Communications Minister Cynthia McKinney [Green] Truth Minister Grace Lee Boggs [Info. Not Avail.] Inspiration Minister Diane Wilson [Info. Not Avail.] Treasury Secretary Catherine Austin Fitts [Info. Not Avail.] Government Accountability Office Minister Annie Leonard [Info. Not Avail.] Government Reduction Minister Greg Cipes [Info. Not Avail.] Press Secretary Minister Christine Blosdale [Info. Not Avail.] FEMA Minister JZ Knight [Info. Not Avail.] Arts and Culture Minister Sandra Bernard [Info. Not Avail.] Attorney General Minister Link K. Scwartz [Info. Not Avail.] Higher Education Minister Daniel David Gentry [Catholic Trotskyist] Education Minister Lisa Clampitt [Green Tea] Energy Minister Carey Campbell [Green] Speaker Minister John Argent [Roseannearchist] Secretary of State Minister PJ [Roseannearchist] PLAS Minister Dashus Christ [Roseannearchist] Senate Minister Lady Jane Green [Roseannearchist] Labor Minister Angela Keaton [Ordinary Anarchist] Transportation Minister Nathan Johnson [American Independent] States Rights Minister Rene Jean [Free Parliamentary]

If you like it, check out out 72 Deputy Cabinet Ministers too!

[-] 1 points by joogle (55) 2 years ago

Thanks very much for all you're accomplishing, and thanks for the forum and free speech opportunities too!

--James O. Ogle [Free Parliamentary] volunteer vote counter

GoBarrOOgle 2012 [Green Tea/Free Parliamentary]

Why do you THINK they called it Google? (That's right, it derived from my name in '97.)

[-] 1 points by Leigh (11) 2 years ago

I am incredibly proud of you guys, and wish I could be there with you. The lack of media coverage tells us everything we need to know about the corporate control of this country. But as you hang in there and keep going, more will join you. And as your (our) ranks swell, more attention will be paid. Ultimately, this is a numbers game and when the tipping point is reached, change is inevitable. Don't stop. We'll be there soon.

[-] 1 points by RIPcctv (2) from Waltham Abbey, England 2 years ago

Wish I could be out there!!! Good luck! You are doing brilliant! Its finally hit a newspaper over hear and for once they are pro-protesters rather than against it!

[-] 1 points by RIPcctv (2) from Waltham Abbey, England 2 years ago

Wish I could be out there!!! Good luck! You are doing brilliant! Its finally hit a newspaper over hear and for once they are pro-protesters rather than against it!

[-] 1 points by Velcrow (2) 2 years ago

Another visitor I saw yesterday at LIberty Square - Medea Benjamin from Code Pink

[-] 1 points by Dublin99 (65) 2 years ago

The word 'freedom' has been stolen by likes of George Bush. Freedom is comes from within. It cannot be granted. It is not a reward for appeasing the powers that be.

Democracy is not the same as capitalism. It can exist in a new economic reality based around the needs of people, not the wants of corporations.

The world is about to change like nothing mankind has experienced before. The power or corporations is at approaching the point whereby they will determine your life's path without you even realising it.

We are walking ourselves into a prison where we the choice we think we have has been predetermined for us. We will live in a small bubble inside of what is really possible for humanity. We are being denied Freedom.

Stop watching X-Factor and start watching your Governments.

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

Free Market is not the same as Capitalism, . .I like one, Abhor the other, . . .if we are humble and care for others, we are never walking into a prison, . .only the evil walks in that direction

[-] 1 points by FreeSerbia (1) 2 years ago

We, the people of Serbia, the ones that also got bombed and humiliated by the US government (i.e. NATO pact), alongside our Arab friends, ARE WITH YOU GUYS!!!

We know that you are just people, like us, like everyone else. Unfortunately, I don't think this would be the way to achieve desired results, and please allow me to explain why: I have participated in the same kind of protests you are now going through in my country in the nineties, many times, and many years before we brought "dictator Milosevic" down, but it all didn't matter until "Otpor" - the black fist on white background - came in. We have seen the same fist in Syria, Libya, Egypt. But the fist was not our invention.

Who brought S. Milosevic down? It was the American government, under the pretext of "bringing democracy to our country". It is easy to see this now, in 2011, but at the time, it wasn't so clear. We are now slaves of the IMF who "lends" us money, and we're trapped in the "democracy" nobody really wanted.

All I want to say is that I'm afraid this is not going to be the way you will bring any change. Yes, it IS important to fight, but know that, until the Americans intervened and injected some money to our opposition leaders, we were helpless. Our hands were tied. And moreover, this was only a political change – you guys demand a change that's much, much deeper and is going to shake the foundations of everything your system is relying upon. I don't know who will inject the necessary means to you, and what those necessary means would be.

Full support from Belgrade, fight on, and NEVER GIVE UP.

[-] 2 points by karenpoore (902) 2 years ago

Thanks! Most of the American people are MAD and are not in agreement with a lot of what our government does or is doing! Pray for us and pray for the world "of the people".

[-] 1 points by TheVolunteerWino (112) 2 years ago

I hear you, and thank you for not including the people of America or myself in the sins of the government we have hanging over us, . I commend your wisdom with many thanks and a debt to be repaid even with death, . And i feel for you for the loans of the great evil, I am sorrowful they came upon your land. . . .our prayers are with you, . , Mine. .even unto death

[-] 1 points by Binh (83) 2 years ago

KLA out of Kosovo.

[-] 1 points by squaretie (1) 2 years ago

Wouldn't conducting your protests at presidential campaigning events produce stronger results, garner more media attention, and be more relevant?

[-] 1 points by streamfortyseven (15) 2 years ago

In a word, no. This is about the actions of the investment banks and hedge funds and Goldman $ach$ and the corporatist government full of G$ shills and hacks, in robbing the hard earned money of the middle and working classes with phony investments and outright fraud, as in the "bailouts" engineered by G$ alumni such as Geithner et al. It is highly appropriate that these protests be held at the scene of the crime - Wall Street.

[-] 1 points by LordStark (15) 2 years ago

Following the president around protest at every event versus taking a "real" stand and occupying places that matter like NYC, DC, etc. ??

I'd choose the latter anyday, if you watched the video Chris was right, this is strictly a numbers game and once we have the numbers NO ONE will be able to ignore us.

[-] 1 points by GandhiKingMindset (124) 2 years ago

The way you get the numbers is by making a demand and then taking direct non-violent action when that demand is not met. The demand is "Shut down Wall St." Why? "Because it's hurting Americans, hurting citizens of the world and ruining the environment. It's ruined the American economy. It's ruined the American political system. You make the demand. Shut down Wall St. You make it very loud and clear just as King or Gandhi would have. And when it is not met, you band together in groups of 50, 100, 300, 500 and block the entrances to Wall St. People must enter from the public streets so by definition there will always be entrances. Our job is to be at these entrances relentlessly, zip tied together. This non-violent tactic will absolutely CONFOUND the police and tie things up in a huge way. You will effectively shut down Wall St. And this success, this courage is what will bring the movement huge momentum. The numbers will grow EXPONENTIALLY.

[-] 1 points by LordStark (15) 2 years ago

Amazing post GandhiKingMindset!!!

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[-] 1 points by 722442457 (11) 2 years ago

Peace and love to you all.

[-] 1 points by Rasterius (13) from West Leederville, WA 2 years ago

How many protesters would you say are present and how many expected in next few days. This has gone viral especially the videos on youtube, I'm in Australia and I've heard about it for a few days now.

[-] 0 points by YouAreHipocrites (2) 2 years ago

You "protesters" are all HIPOCRITES! Iphones are from Apple (public company with stock traded on WALL ST), Macs are also from Apple, Android is from Google (public), HTC phones (HTC public), YouTube is owned by Google (public), servers used to host this site (Hewlett, Oracle/Sun, Dell, IBM all public), networks used to deliver data traffic (AT&T, Verizon, etc all public), CDNs to prioritize your precious videos (Akamai public). . .

My advice is to STOP USING TECHNOLOGY TO PROMOTE AND DELIVER INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR CAUSE. You are helping public companies whose stocks trade on Wall St. Please stop using any products and services associated with any public company that trades on Wall St. Instead make your own pencils by growing trees, make your own lead, and create your own ads for distribution. Please remember to make your own paper as you don't want to use any products from International Paper (another public company). If you choose to use a computer to make an ad, please be sure to make your own computer including the semiconductors, disk drive and software, because all of those things come from public companies. Make your own monitor too because LCD screens come from public companies. Oh, you need to make your own printer too since HP, Lexmark, Canon, Kodak and Dell are all public companies. Also, don't use Kinkos to make copies as they are also part of a public company (Fed-ex).

[-] 1 points by Jericho (1) 2 years ago

It's a protest against the irresponsible business practices used by wall street companies such as the merging of deposit banks and investment banks. This was a problem in 1933 but we have such a poor sense of history that we let politician's tell us that "now things are different (these) bankers are more responsible" despite their lack of actual experience in these markets is it any surprise that the market upheavel occurred post repeal 1999. They are not protesting the corporations themselves but rather the practices and banking systems that profiteer by exploiting the populace. One example for taste being the bail out of Goldman Sach's by the government with one of their board members working on the bailout plan, while their competitor Lehman brothers was allowed to fail. This abuse and misuse of the government for private gain is what they're protesting not the legitimate and honest corporations though there should be anti-trust investigations into some of them.

[-] 1 points by streamfortyseven (15) 2 years ago

this is stupid, use whatever technology you can use to get the message across to the greatest number of people.

[-] 1 points by YouAreHipocrites (2) 2 years ago

Right, I hate the greed that propelled companies to create the technology that I use to spread the message that I hate greed" Got it

[-] 0 points by tolitobaracks77 (7) 2 years ago

A 2nd note. Dont taunt Police.....set an example. Be appealing to good cops. They hate bad cops too. Violence is never going to accomplish anything at any business board meeting in America. Laws and Court room debates are what change the world. Dont act on emotions. Be proactive with a business mindset. Politics, law, sociology. Study it and you will be powerful!

[-] 2 points by thanksmeatcat (2) from Toronto, ON 2 years ago

I think that the 99%'s method of asking cops to join us, telling them they work hard, that they deserve better, is a very accurate choice.

The police get a SHIT deal in the USA and yet they will side with the 1%?

Nope, not anymore

[-] 1 points by LordStark (15) 2 years ago

Police are a non factor in my honest opinion. Because once we have numbers in the thousands of people occupying cities theres not much they can do besides call in military etc. and boy would that be a sight!

I know it's EXTREMELY HARD being treated that way (assaulted, maced, wrongly arrested, etc.) but stay strong and remain peaceful at all costs!

Don't give them a reason to label our group as terrorists or anything negative. We are the 99% and we will not be ignored any longer!!

[-] -1 points by TedSheckler (1) 2 years ago

You are just a bunch of over-privilaged white kids who just wish to be a part of something like they did in the 60s. You are THE punchline to every joke both here in NYC and around the world. You don't even know what you're protesting for. You are an embarrassement to the 60s generation as well as our country. Comparing yourselves to protesters in Lybia is EMBARRASSING. Are you being fired at by automatic weapons and RPGs? Go home please so that you can keep the small amount of dignity you may have left.

[-] 1 points by streamfortyseven (15) 2 years ago

This protest is long overdue, it should have been done three years ago, but it takes a long time to break the conditioning given in public schooling, by TV, and the mass media/entertainment complex. Sure, some of these people are white kids, perhaps some are privileged, but most are pretty solidly middle class and working class, and a lot of them have huge student loan debt hanging over their heads and no way to ever pay it off.

Here's a clue: it wasn't by and large the black and hispanic communities who got screwed over by the massive robbery of wealth that took place in 2008 and 2009 and which continues unabated. The black and hispanic communities were already victimized by the system for generations, given inferior educations and held in virtual slavery for the last 150 years or so. The community which got screwed over this time is the white middle and working classes, and now some upper-middle class people, whose 401k plans in which they had theor life savings were wiped out and stolen by the thieves at Goldman Sachs and the rest of Wall Street. Most blacks and hispanics don't have any money to steal, the white middle and working classes have (or had) most of the money. It's their kids who are being conned into selling themselves into debt slavery for worthless college degrees, whose future is being annulled by the system.

The people who are there at Zuccotti Park have every right to be there, and you, "TedSheckler" are full of reprehensible motives and racist bullshit.

[-] 1 points by NOAMISRICH (28) 2 years ago

The crowd of 100, 600, whatever out of 20 million people in Metro New York. Its just a blame game. And it sounds like you are very bitter about everything. Calling the 1% evil is CLASS ENVY. If you ever need a heart transplant, tell the surgeon, "WE ARE THE 99 AND YOU ARE GREEDY FOR MAKING A LOT OF MONEY"

[-] 1 points by Bobel (1) 2 years ago

Surgeons are not the problem, Wall street is. I worked for Lehman for 12 years, I saw the greed first hand. They raped the housing market by turning a relatively safe investment into a high risk derivative. They loaned money out to unqualified people who refuse to pay it back. They artificially inflate there earnings. They laugh at the rules and regulations meant to protect the brokerage industry from crooks. (SOX) They lie, cheat and steel to raise stock prices. The list goes on and on... and finally they caused the biggest financial melt down since the great depression. There is 9% unemployment, small business is suffering, the housing market is in the crapper for many years and Finance co continue to outsource precious jobs as Wall street plugs along as if nothing happened. Talk the market over 10k and protect the bonus $ money while the rest of the country suffers. Make them pay for there sins... take 80% of there bonus money and dump it back into the system for as long as it takes. As for that doctor, I hope he makes the same 26 million in bonus that Dick Fuld made the year before LEH failed.

[-] 1 points by LordStark (15) 2 years ago

Please don't feed this troll and his IGNORANT wall of text....