Forum Post: ### Is VQkag2 a Democrat plant? ###
Posted 11 months ago on June 14, 2012, 2:29 p.m. EST by shadzhairart
(-357)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This guy doesn't stop talking to me about how the Democrats are the thing. He seems totally into the political system, but then claims to be a part of OWS. WTF? I thought Occupy was supposed to be about us working together to forge a better world starting from the grassroots, and not about working with or helping politicians! When you tell him that all politicians are corrupted because the system is corrupted, he calls you a right winger! WTF? Did this guy graduate high school, or is he just a Democrat plant? I noticed he's by far the most active poster here. He kind of owns the forum. That means is either addicted or paid.
Anyhow, that's my impression. I just got here yesterday, and he doesn't stop chasing me around the forum replying to all my comments about how I should vote for Obama.
What do you think? Some kind of Democrat plant, placed here by the 1%?
I have never said you should vote for anyone. You are a liar! I have said both parties are corrupted. So are lying about that as well. I rarely mention dems but rather have kept our discussion on left and right policies. I have said I'm against the drone attacks. I disagree it is the same as slaughtering millions like Bush. You have been attacking one party. You refuse to discuss the real issues facing the 99%. You refuse to admit that it is right wing policies that have created this massive economic downturn. You have tried to soilence me with insults and commands to leave. I will not be silenced. You seem like the plant.
You're proving my point. There you go again accusing everyone who is no a government lover a right winger.
If you compare killing dozens with targeted drone attacks to slaughtering millions by Bush then you are dishonestly trying to minimize Bush's crimes. And I see you as a repub plant. I mean you don't criticize the House repubs for defeating dem attempts to repeal the ndaa2013 last month!. You don't complain about the house repubs who have had one oversight hearing trying to stop the drone attacks. So you seem like a repub plant. Sorry.
I have Thrassy to thank for this. You comment was nothing but ad honminem. lol
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/6/14/breaking_08_pledge_leaked_trade_doc
These four men REQUIRE that you vote for ?????
If you don’t believe them,
…….ask Newt Gingrich or John McCain about Citizens United
OR
…….ask the family of any soldier killed in Iraq about bush v Gore
OR
Are you afraid to answer the questions -
……why do supreme court appointments make no difference ?
……why do ( roberts + alito ) = ( sotomayor + kagan ) ?
.……do you believe that President Gore would invade Iraq ?
…….do you believe that President Gore would NOT read his PDBs ?
And are you smart enough to answer these questions without changing the subject to what you don’t like about Obama?
Just because Scalia and Thomas take koch brothers money –
you don’t have to
Do you do want to overthrow the Affordable Care Act?
Do you like privatizing Social Security? Schools? Prisons?
Do you llike the ryan budget? Are you happy GM did not close?
me too - I will vote accordingly
If Obama is such a great man, why did OWS start under his presidency, and why are you even here on this anti-government website?
The fact is we can find all kinds of wrongs in both the republicans and the democrats. Did you read about the deal Obama is planning on doing with corporations? Is that the America you want to live in?
If you still believe in voting, at least vote for a third party like the Green Party. But really, what you should do is cancel your vote to show that you don't believe in the system.
Change will happen in the streets, not at the voting booth.
I am more disapointed with dems, their corruption is a betrayal of the left wing agenda that is naturally aligned with OWS. I of course expect your right wing wacko pols to serve the 1%. That is their admitted agenda. OWS started under Pres Obama because enough people became desperate enough, and recognized the dems were not gonna implement the agenda they claimed to. Because enough left wing people realized they can't get our agenda passed without protest. But no body wants the right wing to gain more power! So don't throw your votes away as the repub plant wants. build a new country from the ground up but do not let an election go by without hurting the right wing wackos whose policies have created this eco collapse.
Democrats were never very far left at all. I would say they were center before, and now far right. Anarchism and OWS is left wing, not democrats.
The right wing wacko policies are at the center of 1% destruction of the middle class. The dems HAVE been left wing proponents (decades ago) Until the country is rebuilt (from the ground up preferably) we can't let an election go by without preventing the right wing from gaining more control! More right wing control will make it more difficult to do any rebuilding. More right wing control will benefit the 1%. If your representative is right wing Vote them out! Then get back to the street. Get your friends on the street and agitate for a left wing agenda. Even shadzhairart wants a left wing agenda! right shadzy?
In the early 1900s Russia used the streets
In the late 1700s France used the streets
In the 1920s Germany used the streets
worked well didn't they ??????????
The ironic thing about VQkag2 is that he sees the world in black and white absolutes, just like George W Bush. He immediately accuses anybody who disagrees with him of being a right-wing supporter of the 1%. Because, you know, there is no in between. You're either a homeless labor union organizer with dreadlocks or you're a Bentley-driving polo team owner.
He sure seems like a dem plant. And yeah, his thinking is super simplistic.
Aw, I think he likes you. Just give it some time. You'll get used to him and he'll go find somebody else to play with. Observe http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/#comment-752304
People who come to this site to get votes for democrats think they're helping democrats but they're hurting them. Many of us are just here to learn about OWS. They're not here to learn.
VGkag2 is not only hurting democrats, he's hurting OWS as well.
Top Comments on the right look like a VQkag2 Power Hour.
Either he is doing something to promote himself, or this site is totally fucked.
shadzhairart = Corpo-Rat Shill???
shadzhairart = Far left OWS anarchist, not a democrat plant.
Your contributions to this forum would say otherwise. Do you know which is left and which is right? Have your mommy mark your shoes - it will be a start as you seem to be confused - very confused.
Show me one contribution I made to this forum which shows I support the right. Can you back up your claims? No.
Saying Obama is a criminal is not equal to supporting the right. Your logic is flawed. OWS started under Obama's wing and was geared against the government (his government).
If you're an Obama lover, you're on the wrong forum.
Indeed. What contribution have you made?
Misdirection? OWS formed against WallStreet greed, not government.
It did not form under "Obama's wing" as you stated . What the hell is that supposed to mean anyway?
He means OWS formed because Obama and the democratic party dropped the ball on bringing justice to Wall Street.
Yet that isn't what he said.
Are you sure he needs a spokes person?
True, but it is what he meant. Do you need DKAtoday to be yours?
Whatever gives you that impression?
I guess "wingman" would more appropriate.
The dems have betrayed the left. This occurred because the left has been asleep and allowed the 1% corps to change laws to allow 1% corps to buy all pols. The repubs proudly proclaim their allegiance to the 1% we expect that. The dems can be co opted. The people of the left are awakening with OWS! The dems must be made to serve their natural 99% constituents. Until we rebuild the country (from the ground up preferably) we must vote against the right wing and for pols who support the left wing 99% agenda.
You hit me with that one already. Thanks.
Your welcome. You disagree? Do you support the 1% agenda? Are you anti OWS?
My reply is the same as yesterday, I am not going to repeat what I have already told you.
Your not gonna answer? Seems childish! Your silence is deafening!
Talk to the hand.
Nyah, Nyah, nya nyaah, nyah.!
Iv'e protested with OWS on many occasions, I organized and lead the efforts to create a shelter for 50 poor people in my home town, I grow my own vegetables, and I posted against the stupid idea by Arturo that we should emulate the Chinese.
OWS came to be under the Presidency of Obama. It exists because people are not satisfied with his work and the work of his predecessors. The government is not handling things, so OWS was started. Bottom up. Grassroots. We can change the world. WE DON'T NEED POLITICIANS. We can make a better world right now! Don't you ever forget the original OWS message. You can be a government lover, that's fine, but, by golly, don't give up your power to change the world all by yourself!
I believe the question was, what contribution you've made to the forum.
You didn't answer that one.
I think you are confusing OWS with the teabaggers.
Besides, if one word of what you say is true?
Why did you chose a moniker designed to denigrate another user?
That seems rather anti-anarchistic. In fact, just plain mean spirited.
I believe you can't read. The question was not "what contribution you've made to the forum". Read what you posted again: http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-vqkag2-a-democrat-plant/#comment-763493
Iv'e been on the forum 2 days my friend. My moniker was not designed to denigrate another user. It's the name of my sister's hair salon in nz. http://www.shadz.co.nz/ What the hell are you babbling about. Do you always go around this forum bashing new comers with all kinds of assumptions and accusations.
Bottom Up. 99%. Grassroots. WE DON'T NEED NO POLITICIANS. Anarchy. Let's help each other without waiting for Obama to save us cause he won't.
Don't be a government lover dude. Love OWS. Love anarchy. Love the idea that we the people can change the world.
Liar! you've been on this forums with many different sockpuppet logins for months. It's a bit schizo. You certainly should seek help especially if you think that anyone believes you just got to the forum. And also if you think anyone believes it is just a coincidence that the new login name you've chosen is not specifically chosen to insult another user here you disagree with. You are continually spewing hateful insults towards anyone who challengers your partisan anti Obama propaganda!
How many OWS supporters have you called a republican troll?
Why? Is that an issue that hurts the 99%?. Or is that yet another senseless distraction that you'de rather discuss. Do you support citizens united? Corp peronhood? ALEC voter suppression efforts? NDAA? healthcare public option? Taxing the wealthy? Don't waste your time with these silly childish partisan attacks. Stick with the issues that will help your fellow American working middle class!. Support OWS Vote out anti Alternative energy politicians
Answer the question.
NO! Take a stand on the issues that hurt the 99% or stand aside.
You can't answer a simple question?
none
I just did. I said NO!. Can you answer a complicated question? Can you take stand on some issues that hurt the 99%?: Where do you stand on these:
repeal citizens united/corp personhood, support stronger fin reform, support healthcare public option, increase wealthy taxes, lower middle class taxes, Forgive middle class cr card/student debt. repeal patriot act/ndaa. support unions/living wage/worker ownership of corps. reward onshoring, penalize offshoring of jobs/assets/hq's.
Bottom line, you will vote for more war this election.
Shame on you.
I am anti war! I have protested against war for 30 yrs. If I voted for the right I would be voting for war. This Pres has ended Bush's illegal Iraq war for oil , Has begun the process of ending Bush's war in Afghan for oil. He has also fought to get us off of foreign oil and into Alt energy, He has ended CIA secret prisons, Has redefined waterboarding as torture and ended torture by the US military, He has ended the fear mongering color coded threat level, he has ended the war mongering "endless war on terror" terminology that the right has perpetrated. instead of starting another 10 yr war with 1/2 a million troops and slaughtering millions of civilians like your repubs, he has used target drone attacks in Yemen (with their approval). I am against the drone attacks but I recognize it represent a vast improvement over the millions slaughter by Nixon,Ford, Reagan, Bush 2. over the decades. He has cut the military and will do so much than any repub. He has minimized and will end the use of mercenary armies. He has tried to stop NDAA, has created a signing statement against it and hasn't challenged the court case that made indef det illegal. What more do you want.? Agitate for specific change! What issue do you care about. in regards to war.? You don't care. You are just a partisan attacking Obama unreasonably.
You're just an Obama water boy!
So you disagree with these facts?
"my repubs"
Thats cute. Im sorry you are too dumb to understand that people can be frustrated with the people they voted for. Quite honestly, the "attack the other side" is part of the media push for divide and conquer, and you are a prime example of it.
The Republicans suck. Everything they do sucks. Its not even worth addressing.
When the president can unitlaterally take lives with his "Kill List" then he has the power to close Gitmo. He wont do it. Plain and simple.
So the house Dems are the good ones, but the Senate dems are the bad ones? You are a freakin clown show, and a pathetic voter.
Go vote for more war, you hack.
Seems how you refer to bombing 6 nations in three years as a "great president" you have now officially lost all credibilty.
I dont see too many facts in your posts, its usually just random statements.
It passed after HE sent it back to the house to get the language he wanted in there. If you ignore this fact, I cant help you.
Continuing aggression is not improvement. Leaving Gitmo open is a tragedy.
Please come to me with facts on your green energy nonsense, that I support but this president doesnt, by the way.
Cut and paste?. Have you given up?. I suppose I can do that too. Just try to answer honestly without the hostility. Perhaps we just disagree. It's allowed.
essening aggression most certainly is an improvement. That you can't recognize that betrays your partisan leanings. I'm smart enough to know that one Pres can't just hit a switch and undo everything your repubs have done.
This slow progress is what makes him great. He has done this while your repubs have perpetrated unprecedented obstruction, delay, sabotage, and use of filibuster. You never complain about that. Do you support the repubs obstruction? . Do you think it is based in racism or is it simply that they know he will implement more left wing agenda against their 1% puppet masters.
Didn't your repubs prevent the gitmo closings? You don't mention that. I guess you give them a break on that. I think that lack of complaint against repubs by you betrays your partisanship.
You still haven't mentioned why you don't object to the House repubs defeating the house dems efforts to end the ndaa2013 indef det. Another break for your repubs?
Any complaints about why House repubs haven't held hearings to stop the drone bombings? Another break for your repubs?
We could get more of our progressive agenda passed with OWS protests snd support for specific issues aimed at all pols. We arev only 8 mos old. If we can continue to grow we can be a force for the 99% by pushing left wing changes. But it will take years to undo the mess your repubs have created.
[Removed]
Let me start this by telling you I voted for Obama. Even helped register people so they could too.
15k contractors and private forces in Iraq is not ending it. Go ask someone.
He has done nothing to get us off foreign oil, permits are up.
There has been only troop increases in Afghanistan since he took over.
Gitmo is still open and running, and secret prisons have been around since forever. If you believe that, you are just as dumb as I thought.
He is doing drone attacks in Yemen. I hope the Russians or Chinese do some in your neighborhood, so can get a taste of what tyranny feels like.
He has not cut the military, it increases every year. He just cut the increase by 2%. You need to wake up.
He is the one that requested the indefinite detention according to Levin-D.
A few you forgot- We are still bombing Pakistan. We are still bombing Somolia. We are building three more miliatary bases in Africa. We are increasing presence in Pacific. We are testing out military drones here in the US. We attacked Libya.
I cant figure out if you are really this blind, or are paid to post the usual propaganda crap......
And you are still offering insults. Your like a 12 year old.
You admit he has cut the growth of military. great. Repubs don't do that.
He ended the Iraq war! We have troops in japan , and Germany but we are no longer at war
we are importing less foreign oil. regardless of permits. He has fought for Alt energy, wants to cut fossil fuel subs. no repub would do that,
I am against the drone attacks. Yemen, and Pakistan have approved. They are a better alternative than 10yrs of slaughtering millions.
We have increased Afghan troops and now started decreasing. A deal is in place for the end of hostilities.
he requested indef det be in the executive branch and removed from field commanders. In order so that he could revoke it with the executive order/signing. He let the court finding that made it illegal stand with no challenge. The dems in the house attempted to repeal, your repubs defeated. It will get into the military budget and Obama will have sign because it will be passed with veto proof majorities.
military bases in Africa and pacific. That is the least of our problems. Your just reaching now.
We attacked libya with other nations in support of the civilian population. in and out with real support. If only your repubs could manage the military as deftly, as tranparently, as responsibly and with as little loss of human life. The planet would be millions of more people richer.
lessening aggression most certainly is an improvement. That you can't recognize that betrays your partisan leanings. I'm smart enough to know that one Pres can't just hit a switch and undo everything your repubs have done.
This slow progress is what makes him great. He has done this while your repubs have perpetrated unprecedented obstruction, delay, sabotage, and use of filibuster. You never complain about that. Do you support the repubs obstruction? . Do you think it is based in racism or is it simply that they know he will implement more left wing agenda against their 1% puppet masters.
Didn't your repubs prevent the gitmo closings? You don't mention that. I guess you give them a break on that. I think that lack of complaint against repubs by you betrays your partisanship.
You still haven't mentioned why you don't object to the House repubs defeating the house dems efforts to end the ndaa2013 indef det. Another break for your repubs?
Any complaints about why House repubs haven't held hearings to stop the drone bombings? Another break for your repubs?
We could get more of our progressive agenda passed with OWS protests snd support for specific issues aimed at all pols. We arev only 8 mos old. If we can continue to grow we can be a force for the 99% by pushing left wing changes. But it will take years to undo the mess your repubs have created.
Seems how you refer to bombing 6 nations in three years as a "great president" you have now officially lost all credibilty.
I dont see too many facts in your posts, its usually just random statements.
It passed after HE sent it back to the house to get the language he wanted in there. If you ignore this fact, I cant help you.
Continuing aggression is not improvement. Leaving Gitmo open is a tragedy.
Please come to me with facts on your green energy nonsense, that I support but this president doesnt, by the way.
Ok- first off, Im not a Republican. Never been a registered Republican. Voted for Obama. Get it through your thick head.
Cutting a 2% increase is the perfect little media snippet to get the moron base to think he is doing a good job. Im sorry it worked on you. Typical of idiots on both sides.
Energy- you ignore the legislation that has been passed, and go with talking points. Typical of Americans on both sides of the isle.
Glad to see you fine with killing in lesser numbers, as opposed to being anti war. Geez, what a sell out.
Obama just signed an agreement through 2024 with that slime ball KArzai.
Also glad to see you think that building more international bases is not a problem, and is not part of an over reaching problem. Your true colors are showing.
NDAA passed the Senate 93-7.
Libya- wow. All I can say in your love of war is WOW.
PS-some things are facts, not insults.
I am just giving you facts! Your insults are just that insults. I don't have to resort to insults I have the facts on my side.
I am anti war. Not a pacifist. I want the military cut as he has and more but I am smart enough to know that undoing the right wing war footing will take years of effort. This great Pres has begun that slow process.
NDAA passed 93-7!. yeah I know. Is that veto proof? You made my point.
Libya was the right way to execute war. with others nations, very fast (Not 10 yrs). and with limited loss of life. Yemen, pakistan, and somolia as well. not slaughtering millions is an excellent start for me. a long slow process boss. gotta recognize improvements
Afghan agreement until '24 is simply stationing troops. We will begin bringin the troops home in europe, japan and elswhere if we allow this Pres to continue the long slow process of undoing your right wing war mongering.
Energy positions/actions by this Pres is not talkin points. He has tried and will succeed at moving this country away from oil to greentech. your Repubs never would. Now try to be nice. and tell me yu agree or disagree.
David Rovics "If Only it Were True" - Occupy the Music - Bend Oregon - 02-11-12
No I am not gonna go searching through the comments to list your corpoRat supporting comments. People can see them for their selves in the posts and in the context of which you placed them, as they can also look to see others comments and contributions in context as to where they have been placed and how they were used..
You can't provide a link because your accusations are baseless. Just lies from DKAtoday, the form's #1 government lover.
Prove that attack/statement. You want others to hare off to find BS of yours to throw in your face - I say it is not necessary - but you insist on it - so show your proof - you CorpoRat shill.
Prove what? You're the one making the accusation that I'm a right winger without providing proof. You're too lazy to even look for one link. You bear the burden of proof my government lover friend, not I. I'll consider your claim a lie until you have shown some evidence. Just like I consider religious fanatics liars until they prove the existence of their revengeful god.
I will provide mine and you can provide yours.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-do-you-want-protest-in-the-streets-or-politic/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/society-fails-when-the-people-are-removed-from-the/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/letter-to-the-president-and-all-members-of-governm/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/letter-sent-to-the-sierra-club-at-their-e-mail-con/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/health-and-prosperity-for-all-moving-forward-in-un/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/get-active-be-proactive-unite-in-common-cause/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/clean-coal-another-lie-being-toldsold-to-the-publi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/query-your-government-include-all-of-humanity-in-y/
Well - Now - there is a starter for ya.
Your turn.
The "left wing" and the "right wing",neither are of the body......OWS.
You will be purged from OWS and this forum.
You are a Democrat shill and an Obama drone.
Hey - Brucie - having fun shilling for the CorpoRats?
Maybe you should take that up with jart - it is Her forum after all.
You are not of the OWS body but merely a drone shilling for Democrats pretending to be for OWS.
You will be purged from this forum.
Take that up with jart - do it on the open forum - see what she thinks of your accusations.
This is Her Occupy forum after all.
You are a selfish Democrat shill who only pleads for the "left wing" and do not understand what is at stake. You are not of the body of OWS!!!
How about we share with the public Brucie? I will present some of my stuff to present my stance and you can present your stuff. Let the people read and judge on content.
Ready?
Go!
I will provide mine and you can provide yours.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-do-you-want-protest-in-the-streets-or-politic/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/society-fails-when-the-people-are-removed-from-the/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/letter-to-the-president-and-all-members-of-governm/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/letter-sent-to-the-sierra-club-at-their-e-mail-con/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/health-and-prosperity-for-all-moving-forward-in-un/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/get-active-be-proactive-unite-in-common-cause/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/clean-coal-another-lie-being-toldsold-to-the-publi/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/query-your-government-include-all-of-humanity-in-y/
Well - Now - there is a starter for ya.
Your turn.
He sure is. Just like VGkag2 who has been banned already! He was VGkag before.
I didn't even post comments in any of those threads. WTF are you talking about. How is that supposed to prove than I'm a republican. You sir are nuts!
No it goes to show where my heart is.
You have yet to demonstrate your good intentions for the people and Occupy.
A little slow on the uptake?
You accused me of being a republican so prove that accusation with a permalink that shows one of my comments supporting the republicans. You can't because your accusation is a lie!
Out of here government lover! It's time for OWS. Grassroots. 99%. Bottom uP. WE DON'T NEED POLITICIANS.
I believe the accusation is that you are a CorpoRat Shill if you equate that as to me calling you a republican - what does that say about your perspective?
Yep here is the comment:
[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (9205) from Coon Rapids, MN 16 minutes ago
Hey - Brucie - having fun shilling for the CorpoRats?
Maybe you should take that up with jart - it is Her forum after all. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink
As you only attacked me showing no proof for your accusation - I provided proof of my stance.
You can now do the same.
Or can you?
Your comment:
[-] 1 points by shadzhairart (0) 11 minutes ago
You accused me of being a republican so prove that accusation with a permalink that shows one of my comments supporting the republicans. You can't because your accusation is a lie!
Out of here government lover! It's time for OWS. Grassroots. 99%. Bottom uP. WE DON'T NEED POLITICIANS. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
Why are you reposting stuff? Are you a government lover + a spammer. Or, are you doing that to twist our words?
Good one Mittens - I mean Brucie. Blame the other guy for what you are doing. Not really working well for Mittens either. Obammer is having better luck with his campaign of denouncing Mittens and his repub buddies. But now he also needs to defend his secret trade agreement along with other suspicious activity.
do inclusions & exception weave across 10 line sentences like a Shoots and Ladders game?
this may be legislative fatigue
http://pagetwentysix.blogspot.com/2011/04/shoots-and-ladders.html
"Is VQkag2 a Democrat plant?"
Short answer,....YES.
Long answer,.....YES,of course,without a doubt.
registered independent, Progressive/liberal who challengers all lies about the dems by repub apologist campaigners.
You forgot certified insane.
meaningless insult. no substance.
Much like all your post's are.
The opposite. I avoid all personal attacks. It's useless. It's bad Karma. I post here to discuss helping the 99% and to challenge anti 99% posts. Are you here to insult people?
shadzworth, shadzhairart = Corpo-Rat Shill sock puppets?
Inquiring minds want to know.
If you actually had a mind still,I might take you serious but hardly now,you're a Leftist POS that is a pitiful piece of humanity.
I pushing for democracy
That's a waste of time since we already live in a Constitutional Republic.
Correction: We WERE a Constitutional Republic. We are now a Kleptocracy.
We have been since 1963.
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/6/14/breaking_08_pledge_leaked_trade_doc
Thanks!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-vqkag2-a-democrat-plant/#comment-763167
Spread that article far and wide facebook twitter whatever. Regardless of your politics this is something everyone would want to protest.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html
Well,I like to think there is hope for tomorrow and thanks for the link.
Supporting links:
http://www.citizen.org/trade/
http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=3129
http://www.citizen.org/documents/Leaked-TPP-Investment-Analysis.pdf
I don't understand why the mods don't simply ban this Democrat fruit.
I criticize Dems/repubs. Your lack of repub criticism while attacking the dem Pres. clearly shows you to be a campaigner for repubs!
That's some strange logic. Does that mean that someone who attacks the republicans is automatically a democrat? What about an anarchist that doesn't believe in either party (like me) or someone preferring a third party?
It is your exaggerations/lies while falsely comparing the Bush/Obama actions that creates the appearance that you are attempting to minimize the Bush warcrimes and therefore support right wing 1% policies.
Bush did some horrible things. Obama did some horrible things. The system is broke and anyone who plays within it will become corrupted by big money and do horrible things.
OWS. Grassroots. Bottom up. Anarchy. WE DON'T NEED POLITICIANS!
Obomber continued but didn't actually start two (or more) illegal and immoral, Imperial Wars !!! Bush is from the 0.01%er Parasitic Class and was an enabler of Plutocracy and Kleptocracy within The U$A and a Gigantic Fuckin' Dork to boot !! I don't have a good thing to say about Obummer BUT I am nevertheless able to just about differentiate between these two scum bags !
Escaping to Canada or Bali or even New Zealand is all very well but The American 99% need real help & support with their "grassroots ... bottom up" education ; agitation & organisation for True Independents ; A Labour based Third Party and much else besides & their struggle goes on - well past November 2012.
respice ; adspice ; prospice ...
Hear Hear - well said - the world wide struggle for awareness and fairness continues.
People unite in common causes.
Who's escaping anywhere? I'm from NZ and still have family there, but I've been living in America for over a decade. That's where my life is. You have some nerve using "fancy" language to make all kinds of accusations and assumptions.
The two scums bags are different, but both did bad things. The point is we can make a better world by ourselves. Grassroots. 99%. Bottom up. WE DON'T NEED POLITICIANS. It's OWS time. Anarchy time.
Don't be a government lover man. Be on the 99% side.
fight the right wing wacko policies that benefit the 1%. Support OWS. Vote out pro Norquist pledge, anti Buffet rule politicians.! Agreed?
How do you propose government be run?
Grassroots. Anarchy. Bottom Up. OWS style. Why the hell do you think I'm part of OWS and on this forum? A general assembly on each street corner - remember? Man, you government lovers have no idea what Occupy is about do you? Twinkle Twinkle - Can someone say anarchy?
Perhaps you need a better working definition.
Anarchy: A Definition
What is anarchism?
Anarchism is the movement for social justice through freedom. It is concrete, democratic and egalitarian. It has existed and developed since the seventeenth century, with a philosophy and a defined outlook that have evolved and grown with time and circumstance. Anarchism began as what it remains today: a direct challenge by the underprivileged to their oppression and exploitation. It opposes both the insidious growth of state power and the pernicious ethos of possessive individualism, which, together or separately, ultimately serve only the interests of the few at the expense of the rest.
Anarchism promotes mutual aid, harmony and human solidarity, to achieve a free, classless society - a cooperative commonwealth. Anarchism is both a theory and practice of life. Philosophically, it aims for perfect accord between the individual, society and nature. In an anarchist society, mutually respectful sovereign individuals would be organised in non-coercive relationships within naturally defined communities in which the means of production and distribution are held in common.
Anarchists, are not simply dreamers obsessed with abstract principles. We know that events are ruled by chance, and that people’s actions depend much on long-held habits and on psychological and emotional factors that are often anti-social and usually unpredictable. We are well aware that a perfect society cannot be won tomorrow. Indeed, the struggle could last forever! However, it is the vision that provides the spur to struggle against things as they are, and for things that might be.
Whatever the immediate prospects of achieving a free society, and however remote the ideal, if we value our common humanity then we must never cease to strive to realise our vision. If we settle for anything less, then we are little more than beasts of burden at the service of the privileged few, without much to gain from life other than a lighter load, better feed and a cosier berth.
Ultimately, only struggle determines outcome, and progress towards a more meaningful community must begin with the will to resist every form of injustice.
In general terms, this means challenging all exploitation and defying the legitimacy of all coercive authority. If anarchists have one article of unshakeable faith then it is that, once the habit of deferring to politicians or ideologues is lost, and that of resistance to domination and exploitation acquired, then ordinary people have a capacity to organise every aspect of their lives in their own interests, anywhere and at any time, both freely and fairly.
Anarchism encompasses such a broad view of the world that it cannot easily be distilled into a formal definition. Michael Bakunin, the man whose writings and example over a century ago did most to transform anarchism from an abstract critique of political power into a theory of practical social action, defined its fundamental tenet thus: In a word, we reject all privileged, licensed, official, and legal legislation and authority, even though it arise from universal suffrage, convinced that it could only turn to the benefit of a dominant and exploiting minority, and against the interests of the vast enslaved majority.
Anarchists do not stand aside from popular struggle, nor do they attempt to dominate it. They seek to contribute to it practically whatever they can, and also to assist within it the highest possible levels both of individual self-development and of group solidarity. It is possible to recognise anarchist ideas concerning voluntary relationships, egalitarian participation in decision-making processes, mutual aid and a related critique of all forms of domination in philosophical, social and revolutionary movements in all times and places.
Elsewhere, the less formal practices and struggles of the more indomitable among the propertyless and disadvantaged victims of the authority system have found articulation in the writings of those who on brief acquaintance would appear to be mere millenarian dreamers. Far from being abstract speculations conjured out of thin air, such works have, like all social theories, been derived from sensitive observation. They reflect the fundamental and uncontainable conviction nourished by a conscious minority throughout history that social power held over people is a usurpation of natural rights: power originates in the people, and they alone have, together, the right to wield it.
More spam? Would you like me to spam your threads also? Is that how you welcome new comers with different ideas than your own. Are you the forum bully or something? A government lover and a bully?
I give the people a chance to look at a good definition so as they can compare it to your BS.
Yeah I would expect you to yell no fair - you CorpoRat Shill.
Posting your long definition once would have sufficed. But yeah, if you want to spam go ahead.
You think it's corporate Shill to encourage people to use a grassroots approached based on the 99% and to build a better world Bottom Up? Man, you government lovers are insane. What are you doing on this forum?
You want to toss the same accusations around on different threads and you will get a like response. Refutation to your BS.
I asked a question. Is VGkag2 a democrat plant here to co-opt OWS into a political party. It's an important question. OWS must remain about anarchy. It will die if it becomes politically inclined with the current governmental system. VGkag2 is always posting apologies for Obama. He's the most prolific poster here. It begs the question: Is he paid by the Obama team? You don't have to insult me you can simply answer yes or no. I'm new here. I don't know, so that's why I asked. I seems quite odd to me that someone would post day and night about Obama on an OWS forum. OWS was created to go against Wall Street and against the government, not to become a hug for Obama advertisers and apologists.
BTW - It was a question, not an accusation.
Its trolling, and you should be banned for it.
However some of us have actually been here for long enough to realize that the mods are incompetent, and that's why there are bots running around all of these boards, spammers, even a terrorist that keeps posting those Hamas threads.
I have not seen many bots (if any)
The only ones talking about terrorist are the drone apologizers
Your profile states that you are a new comer.
No trolling, just helping OWS identify enemies here to co-opt it.
Then some of your comments should reflect those stances. But so far your stance has been very - CorpoRat.
Show us a link where I support the republicans. I made only a few posts on this forum, mostly about arturo's lame idea that China should be America's model. But yeah, go ahead, accuse me, but do so with proof. Where's that link.
Just take a stand on the issues! Get on the record about whether you recognize the policies that hurt the 99% are right wing. Stop campaignng for repubs by attacking Pres Obama. focus on the issues! Do you support the ndaa? then why haven't you criticized house repubs for defeating the dem effort to repeal it?
What is the most important issue in your mind? No pre-made list. What are your thoughts on the problem and the solution for those on the left to support to fix it?
undo citizens united, money out of politics, publicly funded campaigns, End electoral college, open primaries (to break the grip of the party duopoly), weekly debates for all parties during shortened campaigns, expand House of reps by at least hundred members (to better rep all people and allow for more parties), Election day holiday local/state/fed/special, weekend/easy absentee/verifiable online voting, Mandatory voting for all eligible citizens (1% fears this one the most, and with this all left wing agenda will be within grasp). Hows that? You support any? What issues do you think are most important?
Reform Plus - Abolish the slave wage.
http://rdwolff.com/content/economic-crisis-socialist-perspective
What does that mean? Do you support those common sense changes or not.? I support a living wage! ( the current minimum wage would be equal to 1968 dollars if it were $10). I support company co ops that give workers a share and do not have execs making 300 times as much as the workers.
A living wage would be better, a citizen's dividend better yet, but abolishing the slave wage and having a stake in appropriating wages would be best. Co-ops would be better, but employee owned companies would be best.
All of these things exist in different degrees. We have a minimum wage (it's just too low), we sort of have a citizens dividend (earned income tax credit), but again, insufficient. We have cooperatives, employee owned companies, etc., but right now they're the exception, not the norm (and that should change). More than 80% of America is doing just fine, and this is a problem when the focus of a movement is on radical societal change (versus more acute problems, like segregation or Vietnam).
Trying to tell people that their situation is desperate, when it's not, is not only bad strategy, it's intellectually dishonest (and only serves to discredit a movement).
I'll keep that in mind.
Where did you get that 80% of America is doing fine?
I've heard different reports, putting the "real" unemployment rate at somewhere between 11 and 20% (implying that 80% of Americans do not consider themselves underemployed, and they're obviously not unemployed). Home ownership, at 50 year lows, is still above 60% (and you have to imagine that at least 20% of the population isn't at a place in life where they're interested in home ownership). Over 80% of Americans have health coverage (that they're happy with), and over 80% of Americans are "happy" with their personal circumstances.
The discontent that we can tap into is with regard to the perceived "direction of our country" (this is where the majority of Americans are unhappy, although many of those people would like to see us move in a more conservative direction).
Employee owned companies? That would be a disaster. Have you been out in public lately?
If it was a good idea, then employees would be forming them all over.
We have to do something to wrest control from your 1% plutocrats. What do you suggest.? More tax cuts for the wealthy. ? cutting regulations. ? Trickle down?
Ofcourse it does to you, you dont think for yourself.
I would first crush the military spending, thus reducing our need for tax dollars. Eliminate offshoring of profits. More money there.
Then make it just like it is now, but remove ALL loopholes. The whole code could be on 1000 pages.
The amount of pages is irrelevent. To focus on the meaningless size is an old repub trick of distraction. And I would not remove all loopholes. We don't want to remove the loopholes that benefit the 99% right? Usually when repubs want to "simplify the tax code" they mean remove loopholes for the middle class. Is that your goal when you say remove all loopholes? Thats about right. Lets remove the loopholes for the 1%. Thats a good start. However. gutting the military is a great idea, I agree. As long as we don't take it from the support of service men/women/lgbt, or veterans.
76k tax code is ridiculous. Full of loopholes. Simplify it.
Trading with communist countries freely is a disgrace to unions everywhere.
Our foreign policy of occupying the world and attacking for bankers is lunacy.
Our monetarty policy of the Fed, I dont think this needs to be explained for the one millionth time on this site.
"simplify it" that sounds like repub talking points. What kind of tax system would you implement.?
"Tax/trade/foreign/monetary policies all need to be scratched and redone. Stop trolling me with your stupid suggestions."
↥twinkle↧stinklereplyeditdeletepermalink
[-]2 points by VQkag2 (493) 10 minutes ago
Why do theses policies have to be redone?. What do you object to specifically? How would you remake them? And what problem do you have with public?. They are the 99%. Are you better than them?."
You are joking right?
No I'm not joking I wanna know your position on these critical issues. "scratched and redone" means nothing. what specifically wuld you scratch, redo, why? And what problem do you have with the public? They built this great nation.
sooooooooooooooooooooo dumb...UGH!!
more insults. no substance.
wow....the more pages, nthe more corruption. Even poli sci majors should understand this.
If your company manual is 76k pages long, you thnk its because they really care about you? Or are they loading it with exceptions? Duh.
the number of pages is meaningless distraction of no substance. You choose to argue about the size because you can't go on the record supporting scraping 1% tax benefits, and expanding 99% tax benefits. That is substance. If that means it is a million pages who cares? What if we printed it with really small font and cut the size in half would that satisfy you?
If you cant make the connection between the fact its 76k pages and the top that benefit from it are horribly corrupt, then you need to....man., wtf. Did you take a few poli sci classes or was that your major?
The size is irrelevant! The tax policies that benefit the 1% must be scratched. those that support the middle class and working poor must be expanded. Simple. That would be progressive, left wing, and what the 99% need. It is what OWS would support. And if that meant that the code was 77k pages great. Who cares. Hows that? Agreed? You support that?
Tax/trade/foreign/monetary policies all need to be scratched and redone.
Stop trolling me with your stupid suggestions.
Why do theses policies have to be redone?. What do you object to specifically? How would you remake them? And what problem do you have with public?. They are the 99%. Are you better than them?.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_employee-owned_companies
A study on employee owned companies:
http://www.community-wealth.org/_pdfs/articles-publications/esops/paper-kramer.pdf
See also (some anecdotal stories):
http://www.geo.coop/node/402
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/28/local/la-me-richmond-20111128
http://www.syr.edu/news/articles/2012/southside-food-cooperative-05-12.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee-owned_corporation
I shop at Publix. They pay their employees like shit.
A study of public companies in which broad-based employee ownership plans held at least 5% of company stock as of 1990 found that these companies had 8% higher average compensation levels than other comparable public companies (Blasi et al., 1996). Compensation levels increased with the percentage of stock held by employees. Closer studies of pay and benefits in ESOP and non-ESOP firms in Massachusetts and Washington state also found that the levels of pay and other benefits were similar between these two types of firms, so that ESOPs appear to come on top of other worker pay and benefits (Kardas et al., 1998; Scharf and Mackin, 2000). Therefore while some employees do accept lower compensation in exchange for employee ownership, the overall average pay of workers in these plans appears to be at least as high as-and may be higher than-that of other workers. This may partly reflect higher average productivity levels in employee ownership companies or the use of high wages in combination with employee ownership to motivate workers.
These studies are consistent with the evidence presented earlier showing that ESOP companies are more likely to have defined benefit pension plans, so that plans heavily invested in company stock appear generally to supplement, rather than substitute for, diversified pensions.
http://www.ownershipassociates.com/kruse.shtm
Another good article:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/05/31/why-we-need-more-employee-owned-businesses
1990 is before globalization ran rampant. Before NAFTA and GATT.
"more likely" "just as"....etc.....
All of these studies are post-1990 (and I've also looked at very recent studies, some of them only a year or two old). Nevertheless, if you want to argue against how we've structured globalization; that is a different argument entirely (and I'd probably agree with you on most points).
Yes, I have been in public lately. I even saw a homeless person.
http://shiftchange.org/new-a-sneak-peek-at-shift-change/#comment-95
The republicans AND the democrats BOTH hurt Americans. Obama is about to sign a deal with big corporations and make things even worse. You government lovers are so blind and impotent.
The govt is the problem because they serve the 1% by implementing right wing wacko policies that hurt the 99%. The trade deal is troubling. It appears to be right wing wacko polcies. Nothing is clear about it. but you haven't specified which issue you oppose. your criticism is just general criticism of the Pres again. What about your repubs who are at the center of the deal? Never a mention of them. Clearly you are partisan. You haven't criticized the deal for what it is. another right wing gift to the 1%
The system is the problem. That's why the governments all get corrupted. We need a new system. Don't be a government lover. Bush = bad stupid cowboy. Obama = corporate enabler. None of them help the 99%. You're a delusional government lover. The government will never help us!
You continue spewing hateful insults. I agree the system is broken. I believe the people (OWS) can create change. We must recognize that the damage to the 99% is rooted in the right wing policies that Repubs trumpet and dems have caved in to support. The change we need is rooted in the success of a left wing agenda. To pretend otherwise shows a partisanship that supports the right wing. I support govt change. mandatory voting for all eligible citizens, end electoral college, open primaries, shortened campaigns, end citizens united/corp personhood, publicly funded capmpaigns, expand house of reps. You just attack the dems, and no longer serving repubs politicians. You ain't kiddin anyone.
There's no insult there. I'm simply stating a fact. You are a government lover and Obama apologist. You do not support the efforts of OWS which are based on grassroots efforts. WE DON'T NEED POLITICANS NOR THEIR CORRUPTED PARTIES.
I'm only attacking you who happens to be a democrat and a co-opter of this forum. If you were trying to co-opt this forum into a republican one, then I'd attack you too.
I agree the system is broken. I believe the people (OWS) can create change. We must recognize that the damage to the 99% is rooted in the right wing policies that Repubs trumpet and dems have caved in to support. The change we need is rooted in the success of a left wing agenda. To pretend otherwise shows a partisanship that supports the right wing. I support govt change. mandatory voting for all eligible citizens, end electoral college, open primaries, shortened campaigns, end citizens united/corp personhood, publicly funded capmpaigns, expand house of reps. You just attack the dems, and no longer serving repubs politicians. You ain't kiddin anyone.
[Removed]
The system is broken beyond repair. It cannot be fixed by the Democrats just like it can't be fixed by the Republicans, Green Party, or any other political party.
OWS, 99%, grassroots. Say NO to politicians and government lovers.
I won't mention politicians, I won't mention parties, I won't tell you how to vote! I say agitate on the streets for these issues if you believe because they hurt the 99%. Shadzhairart does not support these efforts because he is anti Obama pro repub partisan plant.
Fight against right wing anti 99% policies: repeal citizens united/corp personhood, support stronger fin reform, support healthcare public option, increase wealthy taxes, lower middle class taxes, Forgive middle class cr card/student debt. repeal patriot act/ndaa. support unions/living wage/worker ownership of corps. reward onshoring, penalize offshoring of jobs/assets/hq's. Support OWS
[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (493) 12 minutes ago
I won't mention politicians, I won't mention parties, I won't tell you how to vote! I say agitate on the streets for these issues if you believe because they hurt the 99%. Shadzhairart does not support these efforts because he is anti Obama pro repub partisan plant.
Oops, you said the O word.
Government water boy + spammer! You should be banned!
I won't mention politicians, I won't mention parties, I won't tell you how to vote! I say agitate on the streets for these issues if you believe because they hurt the 99%. Shadzhairart does not support these efforts because he is anti Obama pro repub partisan plant.
Fight against right wing anti 99% policies: repeal citizens united/corp personhood, support stronger fin reform, support healthcare public option, increase wealthy taxes, lower middle class taxes, Forgive middle class cr card/student debt. repeal patriot act/ndaa. support unions/living wage/worker ownership of corps. reward onshoring, penalize offshoring of jobs/assets/hq's. Support OWS
I won't mention politicians either - unless its to call someone an anti Obama pro repub partisan plant. LOL.
Government water boy! Obama won't help you with those issues. You're messed up!
Vote against anti 99% policies whether dems or repubs voted for them.!
Fight against right wing anti 99% policies: repeal citizens united/corp personhood, support stronger fin reform, support healthcare public option, increase wealthy taxes, lower middle class taxes, Forgive middle class cr card/student debt. repeal patriot act/ndaa. support unions/living wage/worker ownership of corps. reward onshoring, penalize offshoring of jobs/assets/hq's. Vote the issues.
Obama is not pushing for those things. OWS is. WE DON'T NEED POLITICIANS. Out of here government water boy!
Fight against right wing anti 99% policies: repeal citizens united/corp personhood, support stronger fin reform, support healthcare public option, increase wealthy taxes, lower middle class taxes, Forgive middle class cr card/student debt. repeal patriot act/ndaa. support unions/living wage/worker ownership of corps. reward onshoring, penalize offshoring of jobs/assets/hq's. Vote the issues.
Fight against all government anti 99% policies - not only those from the republicans.
Government lovers out of here! Obama will not help you. He hasn't. He's just about to pass a deal with corporations to make the wealthy even richer. Where's the free healthcare for all? Are the wars over? He doesn't do a thing.
Yes, vote on the issues. DO NOT SUPPORT CORRUPTED POLITICIANS WITH YOUR VOTE. Support OWS grassroots initiatives. Cancel your vote for corrupted politics and protest in your street. Get out from in front of your computer VGkag2 government lover and do something for OWS today! It's grassroots. It's 99%!
No I am not gonna go searching through the comments to list your corpoRat supporting comments. People can see them for their selves in the posts and in the context of which you placed them, as they can also look to see others comments and contributions in context as to where they have been placed and how they were used..
Bot's? Don't you like me? I am so hurt!
[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (9205) from Coon Rapids, MN 57 minutes ago
No I am not gonna go searching through the comments to list your corpoRat supporting comments. People can see them for their selves in the posts and in the context of which you placed them, as they can also look to see others comments and contributions in context as to where they have been placed and how they were used..
Looks more like OWS forum users have had enough of your pro government rants and your spamming.
Sock-puppet attacks of the CorpoRat shills - generally do not like to leave a message with their down vote as it exposes their current sock-puppet username.
People of clear purpose with a real disagreement do not hide.
Listen to yourself. Read that aloud. You're absolutely crazy. A fruit.
Brucie you know how you attack and so do many others here.
Anyone can ask anyone including asking jart the forum owner what attacks have happened and how they have been carried out.
Your campaign to discredit is piss poor Brucie.
Who the hell is Brucie, and who the hell is jart? Are you a government lover + a delusional imbecile?
You know the biggest problem i have with you anti gov't drones is you bring nothing to the table. You insult those who believe gov't is a tool that has not been used appropriately by a majority of people. But when it comes to solutions, you're just pissing in the wind. You are all insult, no substance.
The way i see it gov't is a sample of the people it represents and because you choose not to participate, you are not picking who becomes a sample of the population. So if both parties are shit, what do we do about it? At least come up with some solutions and stop attacking those who believe the system is still salvageable in its current configuration.
The solutions are already being provided by OWS. Grassroots solutions. Bottom Up. Solutions from the 99%. Look around you. We are building all kinds of infrastructures for the elderly, the poor, the disabled, the queer, etc... We helped people recover their homes from the banks. We do so many things!
You're the one not helping by apologizing for the corrupted system.
Whatever - you are IronButtBurce a paid PR shill for the CorpoRats.
jart is the founder/owner of this site.
Is this an OWS action Day?
Did I miss something?
CorpoRat attacks usually are hot and heavy on OWS action days or just leading up to one.
You assholes sure are busy.
Could it be in response to the pacific trade leak?
Hhmmmmmmmm.
Distract discredit divide - yep all the hallmarks - CorpoRat - Attack - Folks.
Heads-up!!!!
"You say a GA on every corner to run government - how does that work? In the end don't you need someone at the center of government to represent the GA's? Please explain your utopia. In detail."
We don't need representatives! We can represent ourselves! You can learn more about how OWS operates and intends to change the world on the many OWS websites out there. Start with the NYCGA. I'm not going to repeat what's already printed on those pages. Don't be afraid. Peruse. Learn about OWS. Let go of your government and return to grassroots. You don't have to be a government water boy anymore! You're with the 99% now.
As I thought - you have no structure to offer. You try to use a general concept of communication as a complete system.
So sorry. Fail.
You have nothing and you try to attack under a false flag. You do not represent support for Occupy.
You don't even know what's on the OWS agenda. Damn you government water boys are hilarious. IronButtBurce? Where the hell did you come up with that name? You're a messed up boy.
Support the 99%. Grassroots. Bottom up. WE DON'T NEED POLITICIANS. Enough of the Obama apologist crap! Get out of here government lover boy.
You say a GA on every corner to run government - how does that work?
In the end don't you need someone at the center of government to represent the GA's?
Please explain your utopia. In detail.
If you can't back up your attacks with proof, then don't make your attacks in the first place.
Do I go around talking about your homophobic comments? No. If I did, I would back them up with links.
You government lovers have no balls.
And there you go - into personal attacks as you can not defend your position.
BTW - If you missed it before - here it is again - because perhaps your knowledge/understanding is lacking:
Anarchy: A Definition
What is anarchism?
Anarchism is the movement for social justice through freedom. It is concrete, democratic and egalitarian. It has existed and developed since the seventeenth century, with a philosophy and a defined outlook that have evolved and grown with time and circumstance. Anarchism began as what it remains today: a direct challenge by the underprivileged to their oppression and exploitation. It opposes both the insidious growth of state power and the pernicious ethos of possessive individualism, which, together or separately, ultimately serve only the interests of the few at the expense of the rest.
Anarchism promotes mutual aid, harmony and human solidarity, to achieve a free, classless society - a cooperative commonwealth. Anarchism is both a theory and practice of life. Philosophically, it aims for perfect accord between the individual, society and nature. In an anarchist society, mutually respectful sovereign individuals would be organised in non-coercive relationships within naturally defined communities in which the means of production and distribution are held in common.
Anarchists, are not simply dreamers obsessed with abstract principles. We know that events are ruled by chance, and that people’s actions depend much on long-held habits and on psychological and emotional factors that are often anti-social and usually unpredictable. We are well aware that a perfect society cannot be won tomorrow. Indeed, the struggle could last forever! However, it is the vision that provides the spur to struggle against things as they are, and for things that might be.
Whatever the immediate prospects of achieving a free society, and however remote the ideal, if we value our common humanity then we must never cease to strive to realise our vision. If we settle for anything less, then we are little more than beasts of burden at the service of the privileged few, without much to gain from life other than a lighter load, better feed and a cosier berth.
Ultimately, only struggle determines outcome, and progress towards a more meaningful community must begin with the will to resist every form of injustice.
In general terms, this means challenging all exploitation and defying the legitimacy of all coercive authority. If anarchists have one article of unshakeable faith then it is that, once the habit of deferring to politicians or ideologues is lost, and that of resistance to domination and exploitation acquired, then ordinary people have a capacity to organise every aspect of their lives in their own interests, anywhere and at any time, both freely and fairly.
Anarchism encompasses such a broad view of the world that it cannot easily be distilled into a formal definition. Michael Bakunin, the man whose writings and example over a century ago did most to transform anarchism from an abstract critique of political power into a theory of practical social action, defined its fundamental tenet thus: In a word, we reject all privileged, licensed, official, and legal legislation and authority, even though it arise from universal suffrage, convinced that it could only turn to the benefit of a dominant and exploiting minority, and against the interests of the vast enslaved majority.
Anarchists do not stand aside from popular struggle, nor do they attempt to dominate it. They seek to contribute to it practically whatever they can, and also to assist within it the highest possible levels both of individual self-development and of group solidarity. It is possible to recognise anarchist ideas concerning voluntary relationships, egalitarian participation in decision-making processes, mutual aid and a related critique of all forms of domination in philosophical, social and revolutionary movements in all times and places.
Elsewhere, the less formal practices and struggles of the more indomitable among the propertyless and disadvantaged victims of the authority system have found articulation in the writings of those who on brief acquaintance would appear to be mere millenarian dreamers. Far from being abstract speculations conjured out of thin air, such works have, like all social theories, been derived from sensitive observation. They reflect the fundamental and uncontainable conviction nourished by a conscious minority throughout history that social power held over people is a usurpation of natural rights: power originates in the people, and they alone have, together, the right to wield it.
What's this spam? Is there anybody here that doesn't know what anarchy is. This is an OWS forum! Past that in your profile and link to it! Don't paste it directly in a thread. It's pure spam. You're a thread hogger!
I give the people a chance to look at a good definition so as they can compare it to your BS.
Yeah I would expect you to yell no fair - you CorpoRat Shill.
Posting your long definition once would have sufficed. But yeah, if you want to spam go ahead.
You think it's corporate Shill to encourage people to use a grassroots approached based on the 99% and to build a better world Bottom Up? Man, you government lovers are insane. What are you doing on this forum?
You want to toss the same accusations around on different threads and you will get a like response. Refutation to your BS.
BTW - a corpoRat shill such as yourself will try to hide in plain sight and spew subtle poisons.
The 1st clue to your agenda was using a derogatory take-off of a good contributors username.
Just sayin you aint as smart as you think you are.
I asked a question. Is VGkag2 a democrat plant here to co-opt OWS into a political party. It's an important question. OWS must remain about anarchy. It will die if it becomes politically inclined with the current governmental system. VGkag2 is always posting apologies for Obama. He's the most prolific poster here. It begs the question: Is he paid by the Obama team? You don't have to insult me you can simply answer yes or no. I'm new here. I don't know, so that's why I asked. I seems quite odd to me that someone would post day and night about Obama on an OWS forum. OWS was created to go against Wall Street and against the government, not to become a hub for Obama advertisers and apologists.
I think it is more a case of who in government is right now - jumping up and down waving their hands and shouting at the top of their lungs - Fuck You people of the USA and world.
Yep - the Bammers leadership and secret dealings sure cast him in a bad light as well.
That is why it is more important that we control the houses of government both State and Federal as this is where legislation is created and pushed forward.